


Crown of Thorns Cast Interviews

by CrownOfThornsPodrama, LenaReads (LenaLawlipop)



Series: Crown of Thorns - Behind the Scenes and Bonus Content [3]
Category: Good Omens - Neil Gaiman & Terry Pratchett
Genre: Gen, Interviews, Podfic, Podfic & Podficced Works, Podfic Length: 30-45 Minutes
Language: English
Status: Completed
Published: 2020-06-07
Updated: 2020-12-31
Packaged: 2021-03-04 04:02:41
Rating: General Audiences
Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply
Chapters: 26
Words: 162,810
Publisher: archiveofourown.org
Story URL: https://archiveofourown.org/works/24587314
Author URL: https://archiveofourown.org/users/CrownOfThornsPodrama/pseuds/CrownOfThornsPodrama, https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/pseuds/LenaReads
Summary: While reading and recording Crown of Thorns, we've gathered quite the cast of voice actors, and an ample crew of editors, artists, musicians, and organizers. Here, we're bringing you a series of interviews with the team about their work in the Crown of Thorns Podrama, with questions from both the rest of the team, and you, our dear listeners.
Series: Crown of Thorns - Behind the Scenes and Bonus Content [3]
Series URL: https://archiveofourown.org/series/1767253
Comments: 51
Kudos: 17





	1. Interview with Literarion

**Author's Note:**

> Each interview will include timestamps for each question and a written transcript version of the interview for anyone who is interested in reading the interview.  
> Scroll past the audio embed for the timestamps and transcript.
> 
> Love,  
> The CoT Pod'rama Team

**Interview with Literarion**

We are almost halfway through the mammoth project that is Crown of Thorns Podrama, and we thought about making some extra content for you all!  
Along our way, we have managed to gather an amazing team of voice actors, editors, artists, musicians, and organizers.  
This is the start of a series of interviews with the team about their experience and involvement with the Crown of Thorns Podrama.  
We're starting with Literarion, she is the lead organizer of the CoT project, came up with the idea and organizational structure for the project, brought the team together to create the Crown of Thorns Podrama, and is the incredible voice actor behind Aziraphale.  
Join Lena in an interview with Literarion for an interview, all things Crown of Thorns Podrama.

Love,  
The CoT Pod'rama Team

Listen - [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/651aEUNvH6pqM2SR1MoTao) / [Anchor](https://anchor.fm/crown-of-thorns-podrama/episodes/Interview-with-Literarion-ef406i)  
Listen and Download - [Archive.org](https://archive.org/details/CoT-literarion-interview)

**Where to Find Literarion  
**[AO3](https://archiveofourown.org/users/Literarion/profile) / [Twitter](https://twitter.com/Literarion) / [Tumblr](https://literarion.tumblr.com/)

**Interview with Literarion Team**  
Hosted By - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Composer - [ Nuitarie](https://soundcloud.com/nuitarie) Chapter Artist - [CompassRose](https://outlikethat.tumblr.com/)  
Interview Editor - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) & [UnholyCrowley](https://archiveofourown.org/users/UnholyCrowley) Head Editor - [UnholyCrowley](https://archiveofourown.org/users/UnholyCrowley) Transcripts By - [UnholyCrowley](https://archiveofourown.org/users/UnholyCrowley) & [AJfanfic](https://archiveofourown.org/users/ajfanfic)

Length - 30:02 minutes

Question Time Stamps

00:09 - Introduction: Who is Literarion?  
00:45 - How was your experience in the fandom? How did it get you to start this project?  
01:43 - How did you find Podfics?  
04:02 - Have you joined any podfic communities aside from Good Omens?  
06:57 - What were your initial expectations for Crown of Thorns?  
09:43 - How did you choose the voice actors?  
14:12 - Casting Podfixx  
15:55 - Putting the editing team together  
20:19 - Has the project met your expectations?  
22:01 - Have you found any differences between running a volunteer group and Crown of Thorns?  
24:10 - Have you done any voice acting previously to getting into podfics?  
25:07 - In terms of recording equipment, how have you found your way around it?  
26:02 - What is something about Aziraphale that you can relate to?  
28:20 - What is the one thing that this project has taught you or brought to your life?

Transcript

LENA:

Hi everyone and welcome to our very first cast and crew Q&A! My name is Lena and today I have for you an interview with Literarion, the lead organizer of the Crown of Thorns Project. She came up with the idea and organizational structure and brought the team together to create the crown of thorns Podrama. She is also the voice actor for Aziraphale. She fell head over heels into the Good Omens Fandom in June 2019 and she fell in love with Crown of Thorns not long after. Lit has created a variety of podfics in the fandom. She works in research and has managed both large international projects and groups of volunteers for many years. And today, we get to ask her questions about all this and more. So Lit, tell us how your experience in fandom was, and how it got you to start this project.

LITERARION:

That’s a good question to start with. My experience in fandom has been fantastic. I think, my experience in fandom has been quite amazing. The thing there is, I’ve never been in any fandoms. Like, I’ve never experienced anything of the sort. I’ve never even been-I wasn’t aware it was a thing before Good Omens. So it’s not only that I fell head over heels into Good Omens, I fell head over heels into fandom period.

LENA:

That’s amazing.

LITERARION:

And that has been pretty amazing. It’s like a whole new community that I didn’t know existed, and I just immediately felt at home. And that was, no other word for it, just lovely.

LENA:

That’s amazing. How come you found podfic then?

LITERARION:

I spend-I watched Good Omens end of May as we all did. I started-I sort of dove headfirst into fics like a week after. And about a month or so later, I just had the desire to contribute to that. Not only to be a consumer but to be a producer of something. And I have written, in my past, but at that point, I hadn’t written anything that wasn’t a research contribution in over a decade.

LENA:

Right.

LITERATION:

While technically, I can write, I lack the inspiration for that usually. But then I don’t even know what got me to- I don’t know what my first podfic was as in being aware of the thing. I just found that- I remember a long time ago people kept telling me you should record audiobooks, your voice is so nice to listen to.

LENA:

Right.

LITERARION:

I just connected those dots and then was like, oh, I can do that when I can’t write. When I can’t, you know, I’m not an artist. I’m absolutely useless at anything visual, which is why it’s so great to have a team with Crown of Thorns that does all of that, I just couldn’t. I don’t even make covers for my own podfics, because I just lack the skill. But doing things with my voice, that’s something I can do, so that’s what I chose to do.

LENA:

So you looked for podfic rather than just coming across it.

LITERARION:

I don't actually know in which order that went. I must have come across a podfic, otherwise, I wouldn't have-I wouldn't have had the idea, but on the other hand, I was a huge fan of audiobooks, like just straight-up novel audiobooks for a long time. And I've listened to plenty of those. So I was familiar with the concept.

LENA:

Right.

LITERARION:

I just wasn't familiar with the concept in fandom.

LENA:

And then after that, you started joining podfic communities? Is that something that you've found separate from good omens or has always been tied to the fandom for you?

LITERARION:

It has very much been tied to the fandom. There is one podfic discussed server that I'm on, but I'm not really active there. And really, I'm not-I don't necessarily, I wouldn't necessarily say that I'm a member of the podfic community beyond my involvement in Good Omens. I know a lot of people by now, and I think especially with Crown of Thorns, it’s just inevitable that a lot of people now know me.

But I am not involved in the community beyond what I do in Good Omens, and I don't necessarily have the desire to do that either, because Good Omens is a damn big fandom and I’ve got so many people and so many, already, so many overlapping subcommunities. I wouldn't have the mental capacity to get involved in a larger way, anywhere else, because there's only so many hours in the day. Right?

LENA:

Right. No, no, I totally understand that. So, yeah. So you're pretty much all in for Good Omens at the time.

LITERARION:

Very much so. Absolutely.

LENA:

Good Omens has become quite the hub, we could say, for podfic. Actually, it's one of the fandoms that I'm in that I find a lot more podfic than in other fandoms, I think. So maybe that's how you came across podfic.

LITERARION:

That’s well possible, though, on the other hand, I mean, as I said, I haven't ever been in any other fandoms. I've sort of dipped into, sort of where there are crossovers with Good Omens, I will read them, even if I don't know the second fandom, which is sometimes slightly weird. But I have the impression that the community in Good Omens, even though I haven't experienced the other communities, from what I hear from other people, is that Good Omens is special. And so I kind of, I would very much hesitate to go into any other fandom at the risk of destroying this positive experience. You know, I don't want any infighting. I'm really not interested in any of the--

LENA:

Fandom wars.

LITERARION:

you know, headcanon wars or whatever you could find. I just want my cuddle community.

LENA:

It does depend on the fandom for sure. Every community is different. Even when they overlap, for sure, podfic community overlaps with a lot of fandoms, and yet it has its own particularities, we could say so. Yeah, I'm glad you're happy in good omens and for sure the birth of this product is due to that. So, I'm not complaining at all. When you started this project, Crown of Thorns, what were your initial expectations? Did you have something you were really, really looking forward to doing for it? Or were you just like I need to podfic this story? How how did it start?

LITERARION:

Well, the way I decide which stories I want to podfic is usually when there's something specific about them that just triggers something in my brain. And often that is something about specific language or, you know, anything that just lends itself very well to the medium or it is especially good stories. And Crown of Thorns is very much the latter category. It's just one of the most amazing fics I've read, and I've read like well over a thousand. And so I just read it and I was like, OK. So this is a story that just needs-it asks to be podficced. But the trouble is it has something between 70 and 80 different characters. I am not particularly good with accents. I'm learning and I'm developing. But I've only done this for a year, right. I don't have the skills to do that on my own. And also, it's a very large project. I just made a rough calculation of, oh yeah, in total this will be about 30 to 35 hours of podfic when it's done.

LENA:

I don't think I ever considered how long it's going to be by the final chapter.

LITERARION:

I have a tracker for the podfic that I do and I just have a different formula for roughly how long it's going to be, which is usually pretty accurate. And Crown of Thorns is just long.

LENA:

It is.

LITERARION:

Which in itself wouldn't be, you know, my current the current other podfic I'm working on is going to be something like eight hours. So I don't mind long things. I enjoy long things, but it's just too large a thing to tackle on my own because of all the characters, because of all the different-it just needs so much to be done well. I thought for this one, it's not good enough to just have a podfic. You want a good podfic, you wanted consistency. And the consistency was really the bit that made me think, OK, so you'll just need to recruit a small army to do this. And so I did.

LENA:

I see. So, how did you decide, because there was a casting process, so at some point, you had to go, OK, I'm deciding who gets each voice.

LITERARION:

I think it started-a little-so the casting was when we started the casting, at that point, it wasn't only me. When I started thinking about doing Crown of Thorns, that must have been sometime August, September twenty nineteen. And I just started by very slowly working through the script and sort of picking out which of the characters appear in which of the chapters. That was that's where I was. And then I found or met, NotBreadPudding, who is sort of my right hand in most the Crown of Thorns stuff, who was like, oh yeah, let's do this together. So I shared a word document and we just did it together. And then I met AJ, who wrote Crown of Thorns, on Twitter, of all places. And, exactly, I met AJ and I told I told them that, you know, this would be an amazing story to podfic, la, la, la and sort of outlined the vague idea, and they were on board with it. And then a couple of weeks later, they decided to publicly own the story, which they hadn't done before. So I was in the cinema, on my way back, and suddenly I had a mini-explosion of notifications from Twitter on my phone. I was like oh, okay, we need to do something about this.

LENA:

This is happening.

LITERARION:

Exactly. Because this was the moment that it was decided that this would happen. Before that, it wasn’t, like it was a vague plan for maybe some time in the future. It wasn’t a definite I am going to do this. It became that the moment AJ sent that tweet.

As you said in the introduction, I have managed volunteer groups. I have done quite a lot of that sort of thing in different contexts. But I know that when you start a new community, you always need an initial trigger. That initial trigger was that tweet from AJ, which suddenly meant that there were a lot of people interested in supporting the project.

LENA:

Right.

LITERARION:

So I spent that drive back from the cinema. My husband was driving and I spent it setting up a Dischord server to get everyone sort of into one place. And in that initial- in these initial two days or something, I think we gained something like 30 people who wanted to be on board. And that is the group that then worked on the casting.

So that's when we started sort of in a more collaborative, more widespread way to set up the script, to get all of the details together, to define how we would do the casting. So it wasn't me sitting at my desk and imagining who would I want for which role. We had a whole concept. We had a whole team behind it already before we started the casting.

LENA:

Course, and that's a big effort, before the-

LITERARION:

The time from the first idea to getting the team together was maybe a month. And then from getting the team together to starting the casting was probably two months, just because we put a lot of planning into that before we even got to the point where we started it. We set up all of the social media, Twitter, Tumblr, whatever else there might be, Instagram, which I personally don't even know like, I’ve never used it.

And, you know, put together a list of all the people who had done podfic in Good Omens. That's a list of, what, 150 people? And then go through and find contact details for all of them because, you know, we wanted to get the community involved. So at that point, it was already way beyond something that I could have ever done on my own or I could have done. It would just have taken years instead of weeks.

LENA:

Of course, it's a big project.

LITERARION:

Yeah.

LENA:

So after casting…

LITERARION: So I kind of always assumed that I would-I created the whole team because I wanted this podfic to exist. And I kind of always assumed that I would end up as narrator.

LENA:

I sort of thought that, too, when I talked to you at first because I joined pretty late. And when I talked to you first, you said, oh, I will probably narrate because it's very big and I don't think anyone else will want to do that.

LITERARION:

Yeah. That was exactly my thought process, that it's, by and large, the biggest job. It's recording at least a solid hour every week. Week in and week out for the entire year. It's just a lot of work. And I just, not that I wouldn't have trusted anybody else with doing it. That wasn't the problem. I just didn't assume that anybody else would want to do that.

LENA:

Right.

LITERARION:

And then we got an audition from Podfixx. And honestly, the moment I saw that application come in, that audition come in, it was like, OK, so I'll just step back, step back at this point.

LENA:

Right.

LITERARION:

Because, you know, Podfixx has got a shitload of skill and experience, and I can't compete with that. I don't want to compete with that. She wanted the job. She got the job. It's pretty simple. And that wasn't like- we had a board of directors to make the casting decisions. That was seven people in the end. And that wasn't a shadow of a doubt about who would be the narration after we had heard the auditions.

LENA:

Right. And so after all the casting and getting all the characters then you needed a team for editing because this is a multiverse project and editing it would mean getting all the audio from every voice actor, and then just working magic, pretty much

LITERARION:

I wish it was that simple. I, you know, it took me a long while when I started doing podfic to consider this as a form of art, because honestly, for me it was always just using technology. And that's what's putting all of the voices together is, ultimately, yes, there is a lot of artistic involvement in that. And by now I see that and I acknowledge that. But really, it's- the German term as fleißarbeit: you just gotta sit down and do it, right? And you've got to put in the time and put in the effort and get it done. And it's not, I think it in a way anyone could do this editing, like if you want to do it. It's not that hard a skill to pick up. It's some skill to do a good recording. I think making the recordings and getting the pitch right and sort of, because every one of our voice actors does it on their own. Right? Like, when I record my Aziraphale lines, by now I have an idea of what CompassRose does with her Crowley but I don't know what it's gonna sound like. And she might read the situation completely different to me. And so getting that right and getting the recording right. That's much more effort than just the simple task of sitting down and cutting together 20 different voices. I actually, I enjoy that part, but it's very technical, ultimately. And yet it's the part that takes the longest.

LENA:

Definitely.

LITERARION:

Doing all of the recordings, you know, it requires the most skill, but the least time. For editing, in a way, yes, it requires some skill. You have to know your way Audacity. You have to understand all of the internal processes that underpin Crown of Thorns. Because with 80 different voices or I don't know how many voice actors we have, maybe 30, 40, 50. You have to have processes to make that possible so that everyone roughly sounds the same, so that you have vaguely the same quality, because consistency the goal, right?

LENA:

Right.

LITERARION:

And making it consistent while you're editing, while you have so many different contributions, that was the tricky part. The actual editing, there's not many people who do it, but that could, technically, that is the easier parts to pick up, at least in my books.

LENA:

Yeah. Well, I guess I suppose it depends on the person. I know that for me, when I started making podfics, it was definitely the most challenging. And like you said, it's sitting down and doing it. And the more you do it, the better you get at it. And also the better you get at realizing where you need to edit. More smaller sounds become easier to pick up. Right. So it's a skill you develop for sure.

LITERARION:

And also, I mean, we're doing a lot of it within, I hope that you would agree with that, that we're doing a lot within the team to enable that and to enable people to pick up a chapter to edit, even if it's a small one, because there is so much support and so much process and so much guidance to help people do that, because we know we need all the people we can get, really.

LENA:

Oh, for sure. I do agree. When I started participating in the project, I wasn't actually an editor because I was not sure that I could be as good as the project needed, really. I have been doing perfect for a little while, but my own editing used to be a lot sloppier than it has become. And for sure, having a process and having people already doing it, that could help you. It is a big part of it, I think. So now that we’re almost halfway through the project and it's been, well, if you started around September, October, it's been quite long, way over half a year. Has it met your expectations? How’s it going? What do you think?

LITERARION:

It has way surpassed my wildest expectations. We've just got such a fantastic team. And, you know, every other day I will go onto the server on Discord, you know, check in on what people are doing. And there's something new sprung up. There's a new collaboration between artists. That's a new social media teaser that we didn't do before. Sort of, that's what I love about these big volunteer projects. That's why I love putting these communities together because they always surprise you. And Crown of Thorns has done that big-time. There was a phase where I just had to not dip out, but I was flooded with work. I had my day job took over so much time that I just couldn't spend the time on Crown of Thorns that I wanted to. And the team has just kept everything running and improving. And, you know, every time you go online, there's something new and it's amazing. Like all of the marketing that goes on in the background, I had very little to do with any of that.

LENA:

Right, there is a big social team right now going on. And the artists, oh, I'm looking forward to having some artists on this Q&A.

LITERARION:

So do I. Yeah, I would love to listen to that. I will love to listen to that.

LENA:

I'm sure someone will come on and talk to us. So, because you said you're sort of new to fandom, have you found any differences with running a volunteer group or any other aspect of life? I would say, have you learned anything from this?

LITERARION:

I think it's-every community is different, regardless of where you are. I've done- so the other biggest chunk of volunteer work that I've done was in politics. And I think in a way, volunteers always work different and they always work the same. There's always something that sort of motivates people. And in politics that is very much like a political goal or like, you know, a policy change that you want or whatever it may be. And in fandom, it is “let's create something together”. And these two things sound different. But underneath they function the same and you have the same, you have motivation, you have to keep that going. You have a team, you have to keep that going. You have to make sure that people are happy. You have to give people the freedom to do what they want. But while still contributing to the overall goal. Honestly, by now, I mean, I'm an academic. I've researched stuff like that. Now I use a lot of my experience in fandom to underpin some of the academic work I do and the other way around. So there's differences, but there's a lot of similarities.

LENA:

So you could say it's weaved its way into your life pretty seamlessly?

LITERARION:

Very, very much so, yeah, it has. So the thing itself, regardless of fandom or not, has been a part of my life for a very long time. So in a way, this is just a new application of something that I've already done quite a lot of. And it's different in its own way. But the functionality is the same.

LENA:

All right. It sounds like you're quite enjoying it, so that's good. I'm glad about that.

LITERARION:

I am yeah!

LENA:

And, you also mentioned that people used to tell you "oh your voice is very nice, you should do voice acting." Is that to say you've never actually done any voice acting before getting into podfics?

LITERARION:

Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. I've never done anything. I have, like when I was a teenager, and I'm not gonna say how long ago that was!

LENA:

No need!

LITERARION:

I did sing in a band like when I was like 16! And then I had this massive throat infection and my voice never got back to the level it had back in the day. And I've never done anything with it since, until now!

LENA:

Wow, well that's impressive that you could pick up, not only the team that we have right now, but there's just, your catalogue, you could say, is quite impressive as well.

LITERARION:

I do what I can!

LENA:

And in terms of recording and equipment and everything like that, how have you found your way around that?

LITERARION:

Lots of googling, plenty of guidance on YouTube, that podfic discord that I mentioned earlier, which is always good for tips and hints and sorting things out, a couple of people

who know a lot of stuff about this, and have lent a hand when I needed one, and other than that, I just stumbled through and made the best I could really!

LENA:

Well, isn't that what we all do through life?

LITERARION:

Very much!

LENA:

I have a couple of final questions that I would like to ask anyone who comes through these interviews. So, one of them is, what is something about your character, in your case as you are a voice actor, that attracted you in the first place? What is something that you can relate to with Aziraphale?

LITERARION:

The British posh-ness! I think is, it's just what I love about him! I kind of, so I said earlier, I kind of assumed that I would narrate and then I kind of assumed.. so usually, the most positive feedback I get on my own podfics is always for my Crowley. But then we, again, we got the auditions and it was like 'oh no god' so I heard CompassRose's Crowley and was like "This is it! It's got to be them!" And so that left me with Aziraphale. And I like him, I mean obviously, but I never thought I would end up being Aziraphale, because I've always been kind of more of a Crowley type of person, I would say. But I did spend a good deal of my life in Oxford. And that's kind of the first proper British accent, I picked up.

LENA:

Oh right!

LITERARION:

And that's, that's just my typical.. that's just how i talk right? For me, that's just normal English. And I think that lends itself very much to Aziraphale.

LENA:

Yeah!

LITERARION:

He's just such a Brit! I mean, the whole story is in Britain and they're both in London and all of that, but you know, Crowley would fit in anywhere! I personally, am very convinced, whereas Aziraphale, would stand out everywhere but in London!

LENA:

Somehow, yeah! I do get that sort of a feeling from him.

LITERARION:

That's certainly the kind of Aziraphale that I intend to be in Crown of Thorns.

LENA:

And I would say you succeed! And for a final question, what is the one thing that sticks out when you think "Oh this is something that this project has taught me or has brought to my life"?

LITERARION:

Back to the community. It's just such a fantastic team, and it's just such a joy to work with so many talented people, all over the globe, right? We've got people in Australia, in Asia, in Europe, in North America, in South America, I don't think we've got anyone in Antarctica, but that kind of the only gap on the map!

LENA:

That's a bit out there!

LITERARION:

Yeah, well! I think that is.. I'm just consistently impressed by what this diverse group of people with so many diverse talents achieves together. It just blows me away every single time I think about it!

LENA:

Alright! We'll thank you very much Lit!

LITERARION:

Thank you for having me, this was fun!

LENA:

This was all we have for you today, in two weeks we'll be talking to AJ, the writer of Crown of Thorns, so keep your ears ready for that!


	2. Interview with AJ (irisbleufic)

**Interview with AJ (irisbleufic)**

We are almost halfway through the mammoth project that is Crown of Thorns Podrama, and we thought about making some extra content for you all!  
Along our way, we have managed to gather an amazing team of voice actors, editors, artists, musicians, and organizers.  
This is the start of a series of interviews with the team about their experience and involvement with the Crown of Thorns Podrama.  
We're continuing our interviews with AJ (irisbleufic), she is the author of Crown of Thorns and this has been her passion project for around 15 years!  
Join Lena in an interview with AJ for an interview, all things Crown of Thorns, Good Omens and CoT Podrama.

Love,  
The CoT Pod'rama Team

Listen - [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/3Zv8iScUffvMKEkhmQIquP) / [Anchor](https://anchor.fm/crown-of-thorns-podrama/episodes/Interview-with-AJ-irisbleufic-efngn1)  
Listen and Download -[ Archive.org](https://archive.org/details/interview-aj)

**Where to Find AJ (irisbleufic)  
**[AO3](https://archiveofourown.org/users/irisbleufic/works) / [Twitter](https://twitter.com/ajodasso) / [Tumblr](https://irisbleufic.tumblr.com/) / [Amazon](https://www.amazon.com/A.J.-Odasso/e/B0041ZXDN6%3Fref=dbs_a_mng_rwt_scns_share)

**Interview with AJ (irisbleufic) Team**  
Hosted By - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Composer - [ Nuitarie](https://soundcloud.com/nuitarie) Chapter Artist - [CompassRose](https://outlikethat.tumblr.com/)  
Interview Editor - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Head Editor - [UnholyCrowley](https://archiveofourown.org/users/UnholyCrowley) Transcripts By - [AJfanfic](https://archiveofourown.org/users/ajfanfic)

Length - 49:26 minutes

Question Time Stamps

00:10 - Introduction: Who is AJ? How did you get into fandoms and fanfics?  
03:24 - When did you find Good Omens?  
04:27 - You started in the Good Omens fandoms, but they were on LiveJournal?  
06:06 - Was the fandom very different from what it is now?  
07:27 - Has the fandom changed much since the show came out?  
09:59 - What did you think when there was a show coming? Were you excited? Nervous?  
13:21 - Was your vision of the characters influenced by the book?  
14:08 - So you've met Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett?  
21:25 - So from their reply, you began to write Crown of Thorns?  
25:26 - How were you first approached about making the Pod'rama?  
29:51 - Do you listen to the Pod'rama?  
30:51 - Is it meeting your expectations?  
31:57 - You're a published poet, yes? How long have you been writing outside of fandoms?  
35:20 - How is your writing for fandoms different to your published works?  
38:14 - What is a character (OC or not) that you identify the most with in the CoT Universe?  
43:38 - What is something that you learned whilst writing Crown of Thorns, and working on the Podrama?

Transcript

INTRO MUSIC PLAYS

LENA:

Hello everyone! Welcome to our cast and crew Q&A. My name is Lena and today I have for you an interview with AJ, the writer behind Crown of Thorns. It’s an honor to have you with us today, AJ. Tell us a bit about yourself, how did you land in fandom, how did you start writing fanfic?

AJ:

That’s kind of a long story, so I’ll try to pare it down. I first learned about fandom when I was about 13. I was big into Broadway, like Les Mis and Phantom of the Opera, so when my house first got internet access I went looking on online and found a forum, like the sort of place where you would just make a post and wait for other people to post in response. It worked kind of like Reddit, and it was a Phantom of the Opera forum. There was a pair of sisters I met. I was growing up on the East Coast in Pennsylvania and they were in West Virginia, and they ran a paper fanzine and they were looking for submissions of something called fanfiction and I was merely unfamiliar with the concept, so I asked them what they meant by that. And I said, oh, you mean that little handwritten book I’ve been keeping ever since I first saw the musical and I've been writing like little persona poems, you know, from different characters' perspectives and short little pieces of flash fiction. They were like, yeah that’s fanfiction, you’re already writing it. And I started submitting to their magazine and for about two years or so my first pieces, like in the mid-to-late 90s when I was a teenager, they were coming out in one of the last paper fanzines that I really know about now that I’ve talked to a lot of people. I’m sure there are still some out there because mostly they’re done print-on-demand now, but we’re talking, like, photocopies being made and sent out to like 40 or 50 people all over the world. So that was my first experience, and then shortly after that I started writing fanfiction for Sleepy Hollow and Beetlejuice, believe it or not, like, some Tim Burton based fandoms. And I discovered websites that hosted fanfiction, I wrote some stuff for Tim Burton's Sleepy Hollow and it was on some websites. And that was sort of how I started coasting in the direction of fan fiction as we know it now, because for sort of more of an intermediary period, like when I was in college and the first of my grad programs, LiveJournal was the place to be. That's where I landed when I was writing Lord of the Rings fan fiction and then Good Omens and everything else that came along. And of course, eventually, as LiveJournal died down, the migration to Tumblr and AO3 as the major platforms, I was a little bit later to follow. But that's sort of like the trajectory of how I learned what fanfiction was. The fact that I was actually already writing it and didn't know it. And once I knew what it was, I was very happy to keep producing it and have it appear, you know, in a number of different media. I've tried to shift and change as the central points for, you know, gathering and posting to make things available to readers.

LENA:

Right. So you mentioned just now that you found good omens while you were in college?

AJ:

I did. So I was an undergrad and it was like my second to last year of college. Like, I think it was late 2004. It was, in fact, a college friend who handed it to me and I read it, it was like mid-November of 2004. And I read it in about, I think it was like under four hours and well, later that night, I just tried calling her to tell her what I thought. And I got her voicemail and I ended up rambling for about like ten minutes straight about how much I loved it. And that was really just what touched it off, because I think it was within a month that I wrote my first piece of Good Omen fic, which was, well, it's still available. It's on AO3 now. But at the time it was LiveJournal, “The Last Temptation of Crowley,” and I just never stopped. I never, never stopped writing it.

LENA:

Right. So you started on the Good Omens fandom but on LiveJournal.

AJ:

Yeah. And that's pretty much where Good Omen fandom began as sort of a centralized online phenomenon. I mean the book- the book came out in 1990, obviously, and it's had a big fan following ever since. But really, as an online fandom, it only really kicked off about- the earliest stories that I could find were from about maybe 2001, 2002, 2003. And it might have been in about ‘02 or ‘03 that the LiveJournal community called Lower Tadfield, like that was the hub for everything in Good Omens fandom at the time. That and the Yuletide Archives. And those earliest Good Omen stories, as far as I can see, were written as part of the Yuletide, you know, like, small and rare fandom exchange. But when that LiveJournal community came along, it sort of changed everything. It got the community, a lot of people joined it. It got very active. I was writing starting from 2004 and there were a couple of writers who were about as prolific as I am that started writing like a couple years before I did, Daegaer and Louiselux, because their stories were the first that I ever read, that and the couple of sort of one off, like one hit wonders, that were in the Yuletide archive. So Good Omens fandom was born on LiveJournal, more or less.

LENA:

Right. And is it, like, very different from the fandom as it is now?

AJ:

Extremely, because even though it was a very active fandom that never really lost its momentum, like people would come and people would go. But it was on this just very steady, active. But you could pretty much read almost everything that existed. Like there wasn't so much fic or so many posts that you couldn't keep up and follow. Now, that's impossible. Even even when I migrated onto Tumblr in 2012, which was like a really active year for me on writing some CoT installments, even on Tumblr, you could go on the Good Omens tag and sort of, you know, if you missed a few days trying to keep up with posts on the tag, you could actually catch up like at the weekend. But that's absolutely unheard of now.

LENA:

Of course, yeah. I imagine that's very different. I am part of the new people that sort of came on the fandom with this show. I had been aware of the book for a few years before that. It was on my TBR, but I hadn't read it. And I did read it before watching the show because I was like, oh, I remember this book! It was in my list! Yeah, I do imagine that the fandom has changed a lot with the show and how they portray the characters in particular I imagine.

AJ:

Yeah. Very much so. There's a very distinct divide now that I've noticed between book content and show content. And I sort of expected that that would be a consequence of a visual adaptation finally coming along. We did get that lovely radio BBC radio play adaptation in what was it- 2014, I think. And even when that came up, it didn't cause any kind of divide in the kind of fic that was being produced, because I sort of get the sense, at least for my personal opinion and also from what I get a sense for in the fandom and other people I've spoken to, the radio play deviated much less than the TV adaptation did. So the arrival of the radio drama didn't cause, like, “this is radio based fic” and “this is book based fic”. It sort of stayed more integrated. I think.

LENA:

Right, it stayed together. I do find- I haven't heard the radio drama, but I do find that the show is a lot more focused on Aziraphale and Crowley's relationship than the book itself was. The book had them as characters, but it was more focused on them being a disaster at stopping the apocalypse.

AJ:

A combination of them being a disaster, but also showing moments of characterization and subtlety in their characterization. Specifically in parts of the book where it’s, you know, Crowley by himself, in his flat or is Aziraphale alone in the bookshop, or, you know, Crowley going on some kind of errand by himself, like to speak to Shadwell. So you get those little scenes where you slowly, over the course of the book, get really get the picture of what their relationship is like. But more importantly, I feel you get those scenes where their characterisation is so, so clear cut and so subtle and so complex. Yeah.

LENA:

Yeah, for sure, it adds to them a lot. And so what do you think- when you heard that it was a show coming what do you think? Were you excited for it? Were you nervous?

AJ:

So that's kind of a funny thing to talk about, because in 2012, when I arrived on Tumblr, there were rumors that a show would be coming out, like, very soon, like within, you know, like a couple years of 2012. And there was all this buzz and all these rumors, but nothing ever really materialized. Those rumors just kind of sank and went quiet. So I sort of believed- actually the whole fandom has been cynical about this. And by which I mean sort of the people who have been in it for a really long time, because there was also an earlier proposal of a film like in the 90s, I believe, that was supposed to star Robin Williams and Johnny Depp as Aziraphale and Crowley. And there was a script and it was never greenlit. In fact, I even remember, I think, reading somewhere that Terry Gilliam had been proposed as a director. So there was that but never got off the ground. And this is all based on, like, what online research that I was able to do or what I was able to glean from conversations with other fans. But- so we didn't, you know, that it seemed cursed. You know, there was the nineties film, that film didn't ever become anything. There was the rumors in 2012 that kind of just vanished off the radar. So when in twenty eighteen, it was announced that, yes, this is actually a thing. This is happening. I was- I was suspicious again. I thought, okay, maybe third time's the charm or maybe nothing will happen again. But it sounded a lot more official and a lot more serious and that's what- that's how it, you know, how it came around. I guess that we all believed it. I mean, for my part, I was extremely happy with the radio adaptation and for a visual adaptation, I always thought that animation would have been a really brilliant choice for visual. I never really wanted a live action adaptation, like with actual actors, like, you know, with voice acting in animation I would have really liked to see that. But there's just- there's something about it in a live action that I suspected that I wouldn't really enjoy that so much. And then when it finally came out and I did watch the series, I watched it one time through it. I just, it's not for me.

LENA:

It's not for you. Wasn't your thing. All right.

AJ:

I mean, there were a few small elements that I did enjoy, actually, like on a few of the casting. I thought the kids were beautifully cast, for the Them. Mary Loquacious, that was a brilliant piece of casting. Even, you know, when I think about the horse persons, I thought that was pretty good casting, too. But my so my positive opinions have more to do with individual performances and casting choices than with the peace as a whole.

LENA:

Right. And you think that's probably influenced because you already knew the book and you had a very clear vision of what you thought of each character?

AJ:

That plays into it. I mean, having lived with the book and the radio adaptation for so long, but also maybe- just some of the choices in the adaptation framework I felt maybe didn't maybe didn't show off the way that the book comes across. The sense, the feel of it was a bit off for me.

LENA:

Right. It was different. Not every medium is for every person, too. So having lived, as you say, with this book for so long here, I hear you've also even met with both Mr. Gaiman and Sir Pratchett, right?

AJ:

Well, it was, you know, very brief encounters, relatively speaking, in 2005, in, I think it was September. There was a single week- I was living in Boston at the time because I had just graduated from college that year. They were both doing readings. Terry was doing his reading first on the Harvard campus and then like a really small library of one of the colleges. And then at the end of the week, Neil was reading at First Parish Church in Cambridge. So when I heard both of these events were going to be happening, me and a couple of friends from school, actually who also had pretty much just graduated, in fact, the friend who handed me the book in the first place. I said, OK, we're going to organize, we're gonna all of us try to get tickets to both of these events to see, you know, and whoever gets through first and can request the tickets. We had a group of four people. And I think that was the max number of tickets maybe, that you were allowed to request for any of those events. So I managed to snag the, I think, the Terry Pratchett reading ticket. And my friend got the First Parish Church tickets. So between the two of us, two of the three of us, we got the tickets sorted. So at the beginning of the week, I went to Terry’s event. And I had promised some friends online on the Lower Tadfield community that if I was lucky enough to be called on during the Q&A at both events, that I would ask Neil and Terry each the same question, which related back to a blog post that Neil had made maybe earlier that year or, you know, the year before, certainly within about two years of these readings happening where Neil had alluded to a conversation between him and Terry, and he had sort of given that they had just had their conversation, which was that they were talking about what Aziraphale and Crowley were doing these days, you know, where they were, what they were up to.

LENA:

Right.

AJ:

And of course, if you allude to something like that so vaguely, you're going to make the fandom curious. And so I promised that I would try to get called on. I would try to ask this question. At Terry's reading, I think it was a very near thing where I almost you know, I was- we were getting down to the end of the time before he was gonna be doing his signing. But I did, in fact, get called on, and I asked Terry the question, what did you decide, you and Neil? What did you decide that they were doing on the South Downs? You know, the fandom would really like to know. And Terry gave this long, evasive, meandering, eloquent, of course, because Terry was never anything but that, about how, you know, actually, he talked a lot about the way that they had discussed writing a sequel, but, you know, they just never- decided maybe they weren't going to do it. And he didn't really answer my question. He ended up talking a bunch about past conversations they had had rather than the conversation that I was trying to pinpoint. So that was- it was wonderful. I got him to sign my copy. And then at the end of that week, Neil's event, it then was four times as large. As far as- Terry's reading was actually very intimate. But Neil's event was huge. Like, I mean it. That is a big church in Cambridge, Massachusetts. And it was, you know, probably several hundred people, whereas at Terry's event, there were maybe 50 of us. So Neil did his reading and the Q&A opened and my friends and I were sitting and we were in the pews. Like, there weren't even chairs, like this was Neil up on a podium in a church talking to all of us, sitting down in the pews. And I thought, oh, wow, this is, you know, I don't have a very high chance of trying to ask the same question here. But... again, somehow I don't know how I got that lucky, I did get called on and I asked Neil. And Neil launched into a similar rambling answer, like Terry, that sort of talked about, oh, we've been having conversations about this for a long time. You know, here's details of maybe a sequel we discussed at one point. And he came to the end of his version of this ramble and he paused and then said, “but no, what we decided they were doing in the South Downs was sharing a cottage”. And that was the last thing he said in answer to what I had asked.

LENA:

Right.

AJ:

And at the time, I mean, for Lower Tadfield to hear this, like because I then, you know, I made a post reporting back because I promised. I take my promises very seriously, fandom is my community and my home to a very large extent. And even, in fact, one of the four friends that was there with me had a video camera and had videoed actually pretty much thought the whole Q&A. However, they had posted the clip, I think, to Lower Tadfield at one point. But then, like the hosting service they used for the video clip, the clip was lost. And that is someone they went to a different college in Boston and felt like they weren't at my school. I lost contact with them and so did the other couple of friends. So that video clip, wherever it is, and I keep every once in a while trying to put out feelers and say, what happened to this LiveJournal user? Do they even know their, you know, their hosting service? So the clip, the video clip that there was is gone. But that's sort of you know, I didn't- it's not like I had a long conversation with them. It's that I went in with this sort of, you know, mission that I was going to try to do this. I managed to do it. I got them to sign my books, but neither one of them was, you know, a close friend or anything like that, it's just that I had this really extraordinarily lucky set of circumstances that they a) were in Boston the same week giving readings and b) that this curiosity in the fandom was near enough that I realized an opportunity and I took it.

LENA:

And then you succeeded. That’s incredible.

AJ:

It was- it felt- it was really- it was a cool thing. Like it was definitely- it's up there as far as my- And at the time, I was not a very well known, you know, I mean, I'm a poet. Outside of fandom, I'm a poet. I'm an educator. I've written some fiction and nonfiction essays. So I'm like, you know, maybe like early mid career, like with my- I'm predominantly a poet. But I was a nobody. So, you know, I mean, being a starry eyed, just graduated from college. It was a very special thing to happen. And for the fandom, the joy that it brought to people was wonderful.

LENA:

Was it from that question that you decided to start Crown of Thorns or was there anything else that sparked it?

AJ:

It was. So that was September of 2005. I moved to the U.K. October. I was really nutty because I had maybe two weeks after those readings to pack all my stuff and fly to the U.K. to start my first graduate program. So I landed in the U.K. like early, early morning on October 1st. Took a train from London up to York. Got settled into my room, exhausted, like crashed for a few hours, woke up, forgot even where I was. And that evening, usually what I do- writing is very much a grounding mechanism for me. I felt sort of stressed and out of my element. I decided- I'd already been having conversations with friends and they're like, you should like turn that writing prompt. You should do something with that. It's really, you know, awesome that you were able to sort of draw that out, tease that out of them. And I thought, oh, that's, like, really a wonderful idea. So that evening I wrote “A Better Place”, which is the first chapter. And the second chapter actually didn't come along for like I think a few years after that, because I thought at the time I wrote “A Better Place” that it would make a good starting point for theories. But it took me until someone in Yuletide- not Yuletide. Good Omens Holiday exchange wanted- it was the first request for a South Downs story that I had seen since I wrote “A Better Place”. And I think the person who requested that had read “A Better Place” and thought they wanted more. And the people who run Good Omens Exchange, I'm pretty sure, knew that I had written that and said, let's give this request to Irisbleufic. And so the story I wrote, “The Walls, The Wainscot and The Mouse,” for that person in Good Omens exchange became the second chapter of CoT. And from there, I just never stopped. I had enough, I had the momentum I needed to turn it into a series.

LENA:

And into a series it did turn. In fact, you wrote it across, what's it like, something like 10 years?

AJ:

So if we- let's see, the first first part appeared in 2005, and I completed it just last year. So two thousand and five to twenty nineteen. And I wrapped it up about two months, three months before the mini series came out. So, I mean, that's more like fourteen or fifteen years that work on that series was ongoing. And that's wild. That is really wild because it's, you know, about two hundred and seventy five thousand words. And usually I'm a quick writer. I usually finish a three hundred thousand word fandom project, maybe it'll take me a year or sometimes two years. But like this, I really did- I don't know, I didn't ever- I hated the thought of ever leaving that because it meant so much to me. So I think the way I worked on it, I tried to make the work itself last as long as possible, and also I think the interior timeline of the story spans- the interior timeline of the story spans maybe, I think 12 or 13 years itself.

LENA:

Yeah. The characters do grow within it.

AJ:

The interior timeline of the story spans 2005 to 2017, I believe so, yeah.

LENA:

And so if you've finished that last year, at the beginning of a year or so, then it wasn't too much long after that Lit approached you with the idea to make the podrama then.

AJ:

It was a handful of- let me think. I finished it- I finished it in February on Valentine's Day! 2019 Valentine's Day. I posted the last- and that was a deliberate choice on my part. It was always a love letter to the novel, and to the fandom, so that felt appropriate. But I think that Literarion approached me with the fact that they were going to be doing a podrama of it in September, and that was a bit of a light in a dark patch because in- I'd been getting progressively very ill over the course of last year, starting in about April. And I didn't know what was happening. My medical, you know, didn't really know what was happening. But in September, it got so bad that I ended up being hospitalized and then a series of more intensive diagnostic tests were going on. So I was kind of in this limbo when Literarion approached me. And so it really cheered me up a lot and, you know, within, I think two or three weeks of, you know, saying, sure, like, I would like to be involved in the production that I got my diagnosis of colon cancer. And so I had a really rough fall and winter and surgery and, you know, even about six or seven months out from the most intensive of it, and I mean, I'm still recovering. I still have some, like, really bad days. But it's been a pleasure to be able to watch it evolve and to be a consultant, because anytime there's something about the text, you know that people need clarification or want more background or- I just, I get, you know, I get a lot of questions from all of you and I'm glad that I'm able to help with those. I had some input on the voice casting, which was amazing. So it was kinda remarkable that it was presented to me at a really, really bad, really bad time in my life. And it was something to- now that I had finished the series, normally I would use a writing project to haul myself through a really hard time. I couldn't add to CoT anymore because I was hard line. I'm like, it's finished. This is the end point. Actually, the work's not really done. So it, in a way, it's keeping the series going. It's not really fully finished. And that, I didn't think I'd ever see that. People- here were a few attempts, I think, in like 2013, 2014. There were a couple of people who did like a podfic of maybe a few of the earlier chapters. But a full podfic or podrama version just never happened until now.

LENA:

Of course. Well, of course, I'm sorry to hear about your illness, but I'm glad at least the project is helping you along with it.

AJ:

It really is. And like, I should also say that, I mean, the surgery was very successful there. They're very sure, at least for now, that I'm in remission, which is a good thing. The hard days, they're more just that it's like it's a really tough procedure to recover from. So it’s like, getting rid of the cancer has produced like a new difficulty. But honestly, I'm so grateful to the way fandom has helped me through this as well, because it's not the first time in about the last eight years or so that I've had something really, really hard happen. But I have to say, this one took the cake. So to have such a big, exciting thing happen. It was very timely.

LENA:

Well, I’m glad, and congratulations on recovering then.

AJ:

Thank you.

LENA:

So, I gather that you do listen to the podrama then, as it comes out.

AJ:

I do, I’ve listened up through 25 and I’m trying to parcel it out for myself. I've been teaching this year. I've been kind of like an adjunct at the college level for about 9 or 10 years now, but I also have, through all that time, worked a full-time job in the medical field as an administrator with a kind of specialized function. So my life is really busy at any given time so I'm kinda pacing myself. I want to make it last as long as I can, and I’m also fitting it in around a lot of other- because even though I still feel not great a lot of days I'm still doing my full-time job from home and teaching online so I have interesting new challenges in time management. But I am listening.

LENA:

That’s great. And is it meeting your expectations, so to speak?

AJ:

I would say so, yes. The aspect of the production that has wowed me the most from the moment it started was the music, Nuitarie’s soundtrack is extraordinary. I mean, everyone’s a big fan of music, to certain extent, but the role music has played in my writing processes over time is significant and if anyone had asked me, like I can have one wish, having a soundtrack, a score, based on this sprawling series, if I had gotten that alone I would have been ecstatic. So to get a podrama with a soundtrack, it’s, you know, exceeded anything I would've expected.

LENA:

Right. So you've been writing- You said that you’re a published poet, yeah?

AJ:

That’s right.

LENA:

And you’ve been writing in fandom for a few years now. so You had been writing before that, it seems. You were 13, you said?

AJ:

The first writing I ever did was in fandom, so fandom is the reason I started writing. I guess I’ve been writing in fandom...I mean, I turned 38 at the end of last year, so I’ve been writing in fandom for over half my life. I’m not even forty yet and it’s been about half my life that I’ve been writing in fandom. My first works didn’t get published-published until 2005, actually. I had two poems come out in a magazine called StrongVerse and then from there I realized that actually my poetry was probably the way forward as far as getting my work out there and my name out there. Since then, I mean, like my magazine and anthology credits, there are so many of them that it’s really tough to rattle them all off. As far as books, I had a poetry collection come out in 2010 and in 2014. Those two early ones were with a UK publisher called Flipped Eye Publishing. Then my third collection of poetry, which is much longer than those early ones, came out just last year. I’m really fortunate, it won a regional award, Best LGBTQ Book.

LENA:

Oh wow, congrats.

AJ:

Thanks. So that was the biggest honor that one of my published works-and I don’t have a book of fiction out there. I have some short stories and anthologies, but the way all of my time management and my mental partitioning works out, I focus on my poetry when it comes to the work that is published. Or even, I’m starting to focus more on nonfiction essays not as well. I’m kind of happiest when my fiction writing energies are focused on fandom, because that’s where it started. The friendships and connections and support networks I’ve found in fandom I don’t think I could ever properly repay, so what I do for my community online is write a lot of fiction that, you know, I don’t earn anything from it, no fanfiction writer earns. It’s for the love of it. It’s a gift economy, I’ve heard some people describe it. Like, you know, some people read and write, some people are just there to be readers and cheer people on. I’d hope that most writers in fandom are also readers because knowing the context in which your own fandom work exists and is socialized is very important, I think.

LENA:

Yeah, I would say so. I would say so. So, how would you say it’s different… because you primarily write poetry for publishing and then prose, I would say, for fandom, or do you ever write prose for yourself, not exactly for publishing but not for fandom either?

AJ:

I mean I do write- I have written some prose that’s gotten published. I think I’ve had about- maybe ten pieces of short fiction that have appeared, very scattered over time, usually in anthologies, or in like, I think two were in online magazines. Maybe a couple were in print anthologies. It’s kinda- it’s hard for me to check that without a list in front of me. I’m really good with like, my website URL and telling people where to find things on AO3, but when it comes to- a lot of my work has been in print, although increasingly more of it is in online venues, and I edit for a magazine as well, I’m in the poetry department at Strange Horizons magazine and I have been since 2012. 2012 was a big year for me, that’s when I started there. But it’s not- you’re asking if it’s different writing prose in fandom vs the prose I write for publication?

LENA:

I guess so, yeah.

AJ:

Not so much. I would say though, that the writing decisions I make as a poet also inform the decisions I make when I’m writing prose. And actually, that haunts the prose work that I produce for non-fandom publication more than that it does my fandom work. Although I will fully admit, my prose style is very, I feel it’s very spare. It’s very bare bones sometimes. But my word choices, because I started writing- The earliest fandom content I wrote at age 13 was those little persona poems I described, so I started my mentality as a writer was this is a very tightly crafted form. I have to think about my word choices, I have to think about how lines resonate, and that methodology or that mindset that I use in poetry does bleed into my prose, a lot.

LENA:

Yeah, okay, that makes sense. Well, we’ve been going for a while. I have two final questions I want to ask everyone who comes through the podcast.

AJ:

Okay.

LENA:

So, first of all is one that changes a little dependent on what the person does for the podrama. So, you as the writer, is there a character, it could be an original character or one of the main characters from actually Good Omens, but is there a character in the Crown of Thorns universe that you identify the most with?

AJ:

That’s really tricky. When I created Uriel as a character, because I have, in this universe, my versions, my original character versions of all four of the archangels come into play at some point, but Raphael and Uriel are the biggest, they have the biggest role, they are sort of- you could argue the original characters, maybe aside from Mandy and Pippa, or the Device-Puscifer children, the girls, that- when I created Uriel, I actually had created her in a story I wrote in a different fandom because, I needed an archangel in the context. I was a sort of supernatural- not Supernatural as in the show, but it was definitely a piece of- a ghost story, this work that I wrote in another fandom and I need an archangel to appear at the very end. And when I did my research- I’m Jewish, I’m very interested in, just the lore surrounding angels. So I was reading Christian ideas about what all the archangels do, what their specific jobs are, and you know, impressions of what all the angels do according to Judaism. And the one thing that stuck out in my mind, that I read somewhere, that Uriel had dominion over the souls of men. Now, when I thought about that for the ghost story, she was a good choice, so I created Uriel for that story but she appeared for maybe one page of it. Like, maybe only a few hundred words. And so when it came time, in CoT, to start thinking about how I’m going to shape the archangels, I thought, oh, I already have Uriel. I already know how I think of her. And I identify strongly with her in that I don’t let go of what I lose very easily. Whether the person literally dies or is somehow taken away from my life, or I need to walk away. Or even lost objects that mean a lot to me.

LENA:

Like the clip, the clip from the interview.

AJ:

Yes, so, I identify with her because that is her business within the universe CoT/Good Omens. For my purposes, she deals with the spirits left behind, or that linger behind on Earth that have either unfinished business or just don’t want to leave. Whereas Azrael, Death, has dominion over the ones that are a very clear cut case, you know, they’re gone. They encounter him, and then they go on. So feeling the weight of what I carry, of what won’t stop haunting me, I’ve kind of transferred that into the way that I wrote- that I write her, the I wrote her. Because it’s a weight on her, being stationed- I have of the two archangels that are- their jobs are in Heaven but Raphael and Uriel are stationed on Earth, similarly to the way that Aziraphale and Crowley are. And her job just weighs on her, terribly at times. And it, in a way, like, definitely makes her as painfully human, having gone as native as Aziraphale and Crowley have. I can’t really talk about her without thinking about Raphael as well, because they have their own story that spans the centuries that becomes extremely relevant in the plot of CoT. So those two are really really dear to me. But so is Mandy. I mean here where asking me to pick favorites among my original characters is very hard.

LENA:

Right, sorry.

AJ:

But I will say, with Raphael and Uriel, their voice actors in the podrama are amazing.

LENA:

They are.

AJ:

I cannot get over how well they’re being portrayed, and I can’t get over the fact that, you know, they are designed to be annoying. I mean, they are annoying people, like, they have their good moments and they both have a lot of character growth over the course of the series but-

LENA:

Yeah.

AJ:

Listening to it, and listening to them, I realized, oh my God, they’re exactly as annoying as I hoped they’d be. And hearing, you know, them portrayed so accurately, just drove home, I’m sitting here and I’m so irritated by my own characters that I can’t really cope. But that's wonderful. That means that they function properly.

LENA:

Yeah. No, I do find them incredible, both the characters and the voice actors of course. And then a final question would be, what is something you’ve learned during the project, both the writing of the original fic but also your involvement with the podrama?

AJ:

Hm. I mean what I learned in the writing, I guess, is that, you know, a lot of people put pressure on fan writers, and they’ll say why are you wasting your time writing so many thousands of words of fiction when you could be trying to write a book, and you know, have a best seller, or whatever. But being able to have my work published and sometimes get paid for it, because when you're a poet- I mean, that's why most poets have other jobs, being in academia, or working whatever you have to survive. Writing for me is not about the profit and having a single project span so many years drove that point home and helped me to answer those people when they ask me why do you spend your time doing this when you could try to make so much money. The answer is that it’s for myself and my own survival in a lot of ways, but also those stories, and actually the poems that I put out in the world too- I have felt so alone, on a number of fronts in my life, but if I can help my readers feel less alone with what I put out there, that’s where the value is. I don’t even want to call it a pay off, necessarily, but, it- there are ways in which it’s vital to me, and I am aware for some of my readers- or a lot of my readers, it is vital as well. So that’s what I learned, having- because it was my longest running project. I’ve never even worked long on one of my poetry collections. As far as what I’ve learned being a consultant, because that's what I would call myself on the podfic project. I’ve been involved as a, you know, there to- kind of like a dramaturg, in some ways, on like a theater production or whatever, not identical, but just- I’m not necessarily- I have directed a few stage productions in the past, usually like as part of grad school projects or whatever, but I don’t like- I don’t know what I would do if somebody put me in charge of an entire project like this. I feel that a lot of the time those of us who predominantly write, you know, we’re so focused on producing the words that need to be interpreted that I don’t- I’m glad to just sort of be more in the background. Like, I like working behind the scenes, I guess, is what I’m trying to say. Because the words I’ve already produced, like in a way I’m already foregrounded enough. So just sort of being able to have involvement when it’s most needed and help shore up things, to make sure that the final recorded episodes, chapters, come out the way that they need to.

LENA:

Right. Well, honestly that’s beautiful. I’m also a fanfiction writer, and I feel what you’re saying about just wanting to touch other people’s lives. Not just, oh everythings about the money and you could be writing your next bestseller. Sometimes, it’s not about that. Well, thank you for talking with us AJ. Tell us, where can people find you online?

AJ:

Thank you for taking the time to talk to me. So if people want my fandom blog...

LENA:

Hey guys, the audio right at the end of the interview decided to play tricks on us, as you've just heard, so let me repeat to you AJ's online handles. You can find their fandom blog at irisbleufic.tumblr.com (spelled out). Their AO3 is the same, irisbleufic, and for their non-fandom writing presence you can check our their twitter @AJOdasso (spelled out). And if you search either irisbleufic or their real published name, AJ Odasso, their books will come up as well!

LENA:

Alright, thank you very much.

AJ:

Thank you so much, have a great day.

LENA:

So, this is all we have for today. In two weeks, we’ll be talking to Podfixx, the narrator of Crown of Thorns, so keep your ears ready for that.

OUTRO MUSIC PLAYS


	3. Interview with Podfixx

**Interview with Podfixx**

We are halfway through the mammoth project that is Crown of Thorns Podrama, and we've got some extra content for you all!  
Along our way, we have managed to gather an amazing team of voice actors, editors, artists, musicians, and organizers.  
This is the start of a series of interviews with the team about their experience and involvement with the Crown of Thorns Podrama.  
We're continuing our interviews with Podfixx, she is the Narrator of Crown of Thorns and has been podficcing for almost 5 years!  
Join Lena in an interview with Podfixx for an interview, all things Crown of Thorns, Good Omens and CoT Podrama.

Love,  
The CoT Pod'rama Team

Listen - [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/2K26t6JWPVVhZ66A0rA04a) / [Anchor](https://anchor.fm/crown-of-thorns-podrama/episodes/Interview-with-Podfixx-egb6om)  
Listen and Download - [Archive.org](https://archive.org/details/interview-with-podfixx)

**Where to Find Podfixx  
**[AO3](https://archiveofourown.org/users/Podfixx) / [Soundcloud](https://soundcloud.com/podfixx) / [Twitter](https://twitter.com/Podfixx) / [Tumblr](https://podfixx.tumblr.com/)

**Interview with Podfixx Team**  
Hosted By - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Composer - [ Nuitarie](https://soundcloud.com/nuitarie) Chapter Artist - [CompassRose](https://outlikethat.tumblr.com/)  
Interview Editor - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Head Editor - [UnholyCrowley](https://archiveofourown.org/users/UnholyCrowley) Transcripts By - [AJfanfic](https://archiveofourown.org/users/ajfanfic)

Length - 37:15 minutes

Question Time Stamps

00:38 - Introduction: Tell us a bit about yourself, where are you from, what do you do aside from fandom?  
01:35 - How did you land in fandoms?  
04:59 - What did you think when you first found out about the podfic?  
07:06 - You found Good Omens around the time that the show came out?  
07:38 - So you started immediately making podfics for Good Omens?  
08:30 - Was that the time that you found Crown of Thorns?  
09:09 - Did you read the fic before auditioning?  
09:58 - Did you want to be the Narrator from the very beginning?  
13:03 - What is it like, being the Narrator?  
20:12 - What's the process of recording the Narration?  
25:15 - Do you listen to the finished chapters?  
26:40 - Is there a character that you identify with the most (OC or canon)?  
32:27 - What is something that you've learned during this project?  
36:01 - Where can people find you?

Transcript

INTRO MUSIC

LENA:

Hello, everyone, and welcome to our cast and crew Q&A. My name is Lena. And today I have for you an interview with Podfixx. Podfixx or Podders is the Crown of Thorns narrator, coming to the project with four years of podficcing in under her belt, mostly for the Sherlock fandom and more recently for the Good Omens fandom, she brings a measure of experience and a truckload of enthusiasm. She fell in love with a show last year and that led her to the book, the wealth of fanfic, ao3, and ultimately the Crown of Thorns story. Podders, it's an honor to have you with us today. Tell us a bit about yourself before we start. Where are you from? What do you do aside from fandom?

PODFIXX:

Hello. Thank you for having me. Oh, as you said, my name is Podfixx or Podders and I live in Australia on the West Coast in a very beautiful part of the country. And apart from fandom, I work in pharmacy. But my main hobby is podficcing.

LENA:

That's amazing. I imagine it’s been very busy lately with the whole virus going on for your job, I mean.

PODFIXX:

Ah, yes, very. We've been one of the essential services, so there's been no closing down for us. So we've had to work around all the new rules and regulations. But yeah, it's kept us very busy.

LENA:

Well, thank you for going to work. So tell us, how did you land in fandom? How did it start?

PODFIXX:

Um, well, for the Good Omens fandom- as you said, I’ve been podficcing for a long time. It's actually coming up five years in August that I've been podficcing. And I started out in the Sherlock fandom and I saw lots of chatter on Tumblr about Good Omens. And it was obviously really lighting up a lot of people's lives and of course, the Tumblr feeds. So I thought I'd go and have a look and see what it was all about. And just like everybody else, I absolutely fell head over heels with it. So it was the first time I'd been involved with Good Omens at all. I hadn't read the book. And full disclosure, I still haven't read it. I've got it, but I haven't had it yet. But yeah, that's that's how I- that's how I found it.

LENA:

And in fandom in general. When did you start being a part of fandom. Was it with Sherlock or was it before Sherlock?

PODFIXX:

Yeah that was, that was with the Sherlock fandom and it was my son who introduced me to that. He introduced me to the shows and just downloaded them onto my computer for me out of interest. Again, they'd been running for, I think, a third of the Sherlocks series had just aired, when I came to listen to them, so I had very little of the waiting for all the hiatuses that there were between the different series. But, yes. And that led me into YouTube to start with. And then from there to ao3.

LENA:

Oh wow, so you just jumped right into it.

PODFIXX:

And then when I started reading the stories there, I started noticing that there were podfics in there. Where you’re notified at the end of fic that there's a podfic available. So that piqued my interest and I decided to go have a look at those. And it was just like the sun coming up. It was like, hey, I can do this. I found my calling. So, yeah, a bit of an actress at heart. Done lots of amateur dramatics in my younger years and decided that really this was absolutely the outlet for me. My mother always said that I had good face for radio. So it seemed like a good place to use, you know, have an opportunity to use my acting, say, talents, but just, you know, have a play.

LENA:

Yeah. Incidentally, I think Sherlock is also my fandom because I found- I had known fanfic for a really long time before I found Sherlock. But I think I found podfic through Sherlock as well. Right. Yeah.

PODFIXX:

Well, there were some really, really great podficcers there. It was- there are lots of stories there that have been very beautifully podficced. It's a good starting ground for podfic, I think.

LENA:

Right. And as someone who had been very recently introduced to fanfic, what did you think when you found podfic? What did you think? Oh, people actually do this or- what was that like?

PODFIXX:

Yeah, well, it was new to me because I hadn't really listened to audiobooks very much. They weren't really a big thing as I was growing up and the nearest that I ever got to, that was taking out some cassette tapes from the library. And really, the only time I would listen to those would be if I were driving, if I were doing a long journey. And bizarrely, I find it actually very difficult to listen to podfics and to listen to audio books, because something will trigger me in the story and I'll go off on a tangent and start thinking about that. And ten minutes later, I'll come back to the story and go here are we?. I’m lost, I don't know where I'm at with the story. So I can absolutely understand that podfic is not for all people. Some people would much rather, you know, read the story visually. And then there are other people who want the opportunity to be able to have stories fed directly into their brain that they want to be able to multitask. They want to be able to consume stories and fiction while they're busy doing other things. Other things that perhaps don't take very much concentration. You know, if you're out and about shopping or if you're ironing or if you're doing the washing or the washing up or you're cooking, you know, you perhaps want that extra entertainment. So horses for courses, really?

LENA:

Yeah. I listen to a lot of podfic while ironing my clothes because it's just, ironing is so boring for me personally. So I just need something to keep me there. So you found Good Omens then around this show around the time the show came out?

PODFIXX:

Yes, it was quite- it was lovely, actually, because it was so nice to be involved in it when there was that huge rush and surge of excitement. There was so much creativity back in June last year. You'd almost got trampled in the rush. There was so much and of such good quality that it was so hard to keep up with

LENA:

Right. And you started immediately making podfic for good Omens after joining the fandom.

PODFIXX:

Yeah, pretty much. Pretty much. I can't remember when- it would have been June towards the end of June when I did- I published my first podfic. But there now, I say, I was accustomed already to doing podfic for different fandoms. So it wasn't difficult to, you know, read a story that really lit me up and then swing the microphone round and just start reading it.. And as I say, there was so much really good quality stuff.

LENA:

Yeah, there was a lot. I joined the fandom a little later, I think around maybe September, October. And even at the time, there were still so many people creating for it all the time. Yeah. So was that at the time when you found Crown of Thorns? Was that a little later.

PODFIXX:

I didn't know anything at all about Crown of Thorns until Literarian contacted me by email to ask if I'd be interested in auditioning, that she was setting up a group to make a podfic of it as a multi voice podfic. And would I be interested in reading for it? So that was my introduction to it.

LENA:

Right. And then did you read the fic before answering and before auditioning or are you still reading through it?

POFIXX:

I probably read- well, it's enormous. It's a really, really big fic. And so I probably read about a quarter of it. And I- and of course, when I looked at the audition pieces, I really needed to get a feel for how they fitted into the story as a whole. So I read big chunks around that. You know, you have to get an idea of what the context of those pieces are. And I was quite keen, I guess, to have a major role in it.. And I put myself forward for narrator simply because-

LENA:

Oh, so you wanted to be the narrator from the very beginning. You auditioned for narrator.

PODFIXX:

Well, I would have liked any of those three main parts. Although, you know, I knew that there would be lots of very talented people who would also be going up for them. So, you know, as I said at the time, I'll do whatever you need me to do, but I do think I'd be quite fitted to doing the narration, not least because I've done big pieces before. So I do understand what's involved in doing a long piece. I've done one story that was 40 hours long. So I do appreciate how you really need to stay focused over a long period of time. And you need to, because sometimes, no matter how much you love the story, and I do love this story, there are times when it's hard to keep going. There are times when it's hard to keep yourself motivated. There's an extra motivation with this in that if there are so many other people involved that you would, you know, you'd be letting so many people down if you didn't do your absolute best for it. But it's sometimes difficult to keep that momentum going over a long period of time, and especially when you've got other projects on the go.

LENA:

Of course.

PODFIXX:

So having experienced that, I felt that I was in a good place to offer that kind of experience to the project. And fortunately, they liked my voice and liked the work that I'd done before and trusted that I could deliver the goods.

LENA:

Oh, and you do.

PODFIXX:

Thank you, that’s very kind. I feel as though if I do my job properly, I almost fade into the background. It's like the narrator is the person that sort of swings the story along and glues everybody together. But it's the voice actors who really bring the life and soul to it. You know, they are the dynamic of the story.

LENA:

Yeah, everybody brings a little bit of themselves to this project, I think.

PODFIXX:

Yes, absolutely.

LENA:

There are so many voice actors and it's really, as I listen, it's really nice to have the constant that is the narrator. Because, yeah, it sort of makes all of the chapters feel as if they are, as if they are in the same story, which they are. It just feels more cohesive.

PODFIXX:

Yes. It brings a cohesion to it. Yes.

LENA:

Yes, exactly. Because you don't have all the characters in all of the chapters. But having the narrator in every single one of them. It really ties it all together.

PODFIXX:

It’s the thread that holds it all together, isn’t it.

LENA:

Yes. I think it's beautiful. So you wanted to be the narrator and you've got the. So tell us, what is it like? How does it feel?

PODFIXX:

I was really excited. It was- I guess it felt like forever before they contacted me, it was Lit who contacted me. And it just- and all the while between putting my audition in and hearing about it all the time and thinking, I don't mind what the outcome is, I don't mind what the outcome is, it's fine. Whatever, whatever I get. You know, that's whatever, however they can use me, that'll be fine. And then when she contacted me and said we'd like you to be narrator. I was so excited, it was lovely.

LENA:

Of course. Yeah. I can only imagine, it must be really nice.

PODFIXX:

It was. And it's nice to be trusted. You know, it's nice to feel that somebody has the faith in you to be able to do it.

LENA:

Right. Of course.

PODFIXX:

So, you know, I, I make it my mission to work hard to deserve that faith. And trust.

LENA:

Yeah. That’s something really nice in the Crown of Thorns team in general is that we're all working really hard to make this work because we all want to see-

PODFIXX:

Absolutely.

LENA:

The final project. And I think I think it's working out fantastically. It's really nice to be part of it.

PODFIXX:

It's amazing. And it's really heartening to see how much goes on behind the scenes. And I think that that shows in the finished product in the sense that it's quite slick and it's quite professional in its overall look and feel and sound. And so much of that is to do with all the extras that come with it. So, you know, you've got people who work really hard on the editing and you know that that's a job in itself. That is- it's a big call is doing your editing that you have to be- it's a very exacting thing to do. And I think that, you know, you need an ear for what you're listening to, because if you get your editing wrong, then it, then that detracts from your voice artists. You know, if there's too long a gap between somebody speaking and then the narrator saying, “he said, she said” those are jarring and it can then it can take a really tiny gap that's too long by such a very small amount and it feels wrong. And my son explained this to me very well, sort of visually said if you if you're watching a piece on the television, say a news piece on the television and somebody walks behind the person who's being interviewed and you realized, you know, you can't- there’s a part of your brain that thinks they're not supposed to be there. Somebody walked across the screen. But very quickly, you’re back with the main person on screen, you're back with the interview and the person walking behind is instantly forgotten. But it's quite different with sound. If there's a sound that's there that shouldn't be we latch on to that in a way that we don't visually.

LENA:

We are used to ignoring visual cues a lot easier, I think.

PODFIXX:

Absolutely there's so much going on all the time that we hone in on what we need to hone in on. But if there's something amiss with your audio track, if there's- I can hear a car going past right now and if that can be heard by somebody else, that can really knock you out of a story because you start to concentrate on what shouldn't be there. And the same goes for pauses. Same goes for silences. If it's just too long, your brain very quickly goes, has it stopped? Well, what's happened, has the battery stopped. You know, you start to question. So. So I think there's a great deal of skill in editing. And I think everybody's done a hugely good job. And a special call out, I have to say, to Rhi, who does the- she's the head editor. And she kind of does a final listen to everything and balances everything. And sort of she really works hard to make things sound as even as possible so you don't get sudden spikes of sound.

LENA:

Yeah, definitely.

PODFIXX:

And I think, you know, for everybody who- and the editing goes through three processes, because when I record, I record everything. I record every single word of the fic, everybody talking, all the in-between bits, all the he said she said, well, the story narration. And then I edit that completely as if I were going to put it out publicly. And I do that so that it makes the job a little bit easier for the editor who takes on the chapter. So the editor who takes on the chapter will then gather all the different voices together and slop them in to where they belong. So if I've got the right sort of gap. Between, you know, where the narration finishes and they and the voice actor speaks, then that's much easier for the editor to just slot that in in the right way. And then the editor and the head editor between them, then listen through the whole thing and tweak it so that if somebody speaks a little bit faster than I do, they can reduce that space. If they speak slower than I do, then they can elongate that space slightly. But it is the sort of thing that you can only do by listening. There isn't a formula that you can put out to say that there's this amount of space between one phrase and another or one section and another. It just has to be done by ear. So it is a skill in itself.

LENA:

So, yeah, it's definitely something you learn as you go and you do it more. The more you listen and the more you edit the better you become at editing, I suppose.

PODFIXX:

Yes, absolutely. As with, you know, all aspects of podficcing, the more you do, the better you get. It's practice, practice, practice.

LENA:

Well, not to get too much into editing because eventually we'll probably get Rhi on here to talk about all of the editing work she does. So-

PODFIXX:

Excellent, no, that's good.

LENA:

I have to, I have to talk to her about scheduling something. So going back to recording for narrator And as you said, this is something that is a huge task that you have to parse through the project and through a year because you can't sit down and record three hundred and whatever many thousand words in a sitting. No, that’s just impossible.

PODFIXX:

Well, I do tend to do it in chunks. In chunks. So at the moment. Yeah. So at the moment. Um, I've edited and uploaded up to Chapter 49. I think- have we just published Chapter 29? So now I’m quite a long way ahead with what I’ve edited. I’m recorded up to chapter 59 but those are still to edit. And then my next batch will be from 60 through to the end.

LENA:

Oh wow. So you're way past.

PODFIXX:

But not in one sitting. It's not at all one go but that will be over, you know, over a week or two. Kind of set time aside and go right, my next fortnight is Crown of Thorns. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. And that way I find that I get more continuity through it.

LENA:

Right. If you went chapter by chapter, like this week, I do one. And then this week I do another chapter. It would be a little too spaced out.

PODFIXX:

Yes. And that and I hate being last minute with anything. I hate being last minute with podfic. I like to, I like to be well ahead. I like to, you know, I don't mind putting myself under pressure, but I hate being under pressure from other people. And that kind of- that makes me feel resentful and ugh, I don’t want to do this. I've got to do it. So I would far rather myself under pressure and say, right, you've got to do the next 15 chapters and get them done and dusted and out of the way and uploaded. And then that's that's. Then you can have a bit of a break. And that works well for me. That's I don't like that last minute thing where you think, oh, God, is it due? Is it due tomorrow or is it next week? And I just want to get it sorted.

LENA:

Yeah. No, it’s- doing things last minute is a bit stressful.

PODFIXX:

Well, it is when it's a big job.

LENA:

Yeah, especially, yes. And especially because it's the narrator after all. It's not as a minor, a minor voice actor, that you have two lines and you're like, oh, I'm going to be a day late. Fine, it's fine. It's just two lines.

PODFIXX:

It is. That's true. But when you're working on a big project like this, if you're late, then you're holding up lots of other people through, you know, and it's just two lines to you. But that's the difference- that could be the difference between getting a chapter, you know, for an editor to get a chapter finished and then having to wait, however long for those two lines to come in.

LENA:

Right. Well, not to talk too much again about the editing process, but we do, like, have- we have a space between deadlines for the voice actors, the editors, before sending it to head editor, before sending it to, yeah. So we do have a bit of leeway. And generally, people do give us all the lines in time.

PODFIXX:

I think. I think that it's- because I edited the first two or three chapters. And I think it was before everybody kind of got into the swing of it, I think.. I think once we sort of got to chapter 5 and 6 we'd got into the swing of it, much more. It was so new to all of us when we first set off, and it took a little while to, you know, work out the processes and and timings and what was going to happen when and how it was going to happen and how it would be presented to one another.

LENA:

Of course.

PODFIXX:

And of course, Lit was so good at organizing all that and overseeing all that happening right at the beginning.

LENA:

Right? Yeah, I remember at the beginning I was only involved in social media. I wasn't involved in editing. So I wouldn't know. But for what I've seen so far, later on, yeah, everybody turns things in on time, if they don’t, they just come on Discord and they go like, hey, I've had this problem I'll turn it in tomorrow, like I'm on it. So there is, yeah.

PODFIXX:

Yeah. No, it's been brilliant. It's brilliant. I think everybody has been superb about timings and being considerate of one another and, yeah.

LENA:

Yeah, it's it, it's been wonderful. And so do you listen to the final chapters, not the ones you added of course, but others just with all the voice actors?

PODFIXX:

I haven't. I've dipped in. I've listened to bits and pieces but I want to wait until it's finished. It’s still too close to me, you know. I want to be able to wait until December when it's all done and dusted. And I will have actually finished quite a long time before that because I'm hoping to get it finished sort of by mid July time. But I am so looking forward, when it's all up and I'm distanced from it, to go back and listen to it from the beginning. I'm really looking forward to that. I've dipped into it. You know, I've listened to I've listened to chunks of it. I mean, beyond the ones that I edited at the beginning. And it just- the talent blows me away. It's just phenomenal, the work and the effort that everybody puts into it.

LENA:

Well, I hope it meets your expectations when you do listen to it.

PODFIXX:

Oh, it will. I know it will, I know it will.

LENA:

Yeah, I think it's amazing the job that everybody is doing with this product.

PODFIXX:

Yes.

LENA:

All right, then I would like to ask you two questions that I ask everybody that goes through these interviews, mostly. So as the narrator, you end up reading all the lines of all the characters. Is there a character that you find you identify the most with? It can be canon or original.

PODFIXX:

Who I identify the most with...I don't generally, I have to say, I don't generally kind of align myself with anybody in any of the fics that I read. I love the characters. And I think you have to like them to spend so much time with them. But I don't think of myself as being aligned to any particular character. Because there are characteristics about so many of them that I really like and then, you know, some things that I enjoy not liking about them. So no, I think I would have to say that said, I don't generally I don't generally align myself with any of the characters in particular, but I love them all.

LENA:

Would you say you prefer reading in third person as opposed to the first person?

PODFIXX:

I've done both and I think I prefer third person fics in general. Right. I'm trying to think of any first person fics that I've that I've narrated. I've done some from Sherlock’s first person. And I am doing- I'm currently doing _Quarantine_ , which is Johnlock one by wendymarlowe, and that's John's first person because it's through his blog entries. But that's like, first person once removed. It's not, not quite the same as- yeah, I think probably as a preference, I would say, I prefer a third person. But it's not that I dislike first person.

LENA:

Right. Right, no. No, it's just that that really fits you as the narrator. Not being any particular character, just enjoying them all equally. It's a very narrator thing.

PODFIX:

Yes. Yes, when you put it like that, I can see what you mean. And I consider myself a storyteller.

LENA:

All right. You're not a character. You're the one weaving in the story.

PODFIXX:

I love the process of finding a character's voice. You know, like I like finding a pitch of Aziraphale, you know, particularly from the TV series, although Crown of Thorns, of course, wasn't written from the tv series. So that’s another reason I think that I’m probably better suited to narrator of Crown of Thorns, because my character voices come from the TV show. And I really enjoy finding those voices, but it’s more a kind of mimicry.

LENA:

Yeah, no, I know what you mean. I know what you mean. I’ve found myself doing that, I’ve done some podfics of my own for Good Omens and I’ve found myself doing that because- I think it’s because the actors in the TV show have a very distinct voice pattern for them that is very appealing to hear.

PODFIXX:

Yes. And they’re very distinct from one another, aren’t they?

LENA:

Yes. You can hear _them_ in their voice.

PODFIXX:

We’ve got Crowley, who’s really quite laid back and kind of, it’s all very low down and a little bit, kind of gravel in his voice, and he does those funny little noises in his mouth (she says this while demonstrating, mimicking Tennant’s Crowley’s voice). And then you get Aziraphale, who’s very much more clipped and he seems somehow to be higher pitched, although when you listen to them, they’re quite similar in pitch. But Aziraphale’s voice is much, his accent is much more clipped (she says mimicking Sheen’s Aziraphale’s voice).

LENA:

Yes.

PODFIXX:

So there’s my little pastiche, that’s my little-

LENA:

No, that’s perfect. I think Aziraphale has a lot more highs in his voice, and Crowley goes lower.

PODFIXX:

Definitely. Definitely.

LENA:

Because you're right, the general pitch they have, it’s pretty similar, but, like, I wouldn’t say Aziraphale is high pitched.

PODFIXX:

No, no he isn’t.

LENA:

But he goes higher with his voice.

PODFIXX:

There is a lightness in his voice, isn’t there.

LENA:

Yeah, yeah I think that’s true.

PODFIXX:

And it’s the same for me with John and Sherlock who are two other posh middle aged english men, but they sound very different to Crowley and aziraphale. And I like to think I can make them sound very different. I find the actors' voices and finding the essence or trying to find the essence of what makes them recognizably Crowley or Aziraphale, or Sherlock or John.

LENA:

Right, yes, I totally get that. Alright, and then, for a final question, what is something you’d say you’ve learned during this project, Crown of Thorns?

PODFIXX:

Well, it’s the first time I’ve ever done a collaborative work, so that’s been a real eye opener I suppose. It’s really quite different depending on and being depended on by other people. I’m so accustomed to having, I don’t know, full artistic control, and making all the decisions for myself and my own parts, that it’s been a learning curve to be part of a team in that process. You know, and recognizing that there are lots of other people involved who have their own visions of how they want it to be presented. So yea, that’s been a learning curve. Technically I’ve learned lots of things about recording that I just took for granted, you know, because I just did them. But I didn’t necessarily know why they worked for me.

LENA:

Oh, like what?

PODFIXX:

Oh, well, you know I’m not a technical person so I’m a bit of a luddite when it comes to computers and microphones and stuff. So, you know, my son, who’s a sound recordist set me up, and said do this, do this, and do this. And I went alright then. And everything came out sounding pretty much okay. But then trying to explain what this and this and this was to other people so they could replicate it was a bit of an eye opener, because people go well you know how to, Podfixx, cause your stuff always sounds alright. So tell us how to do it. And I had to learn how I do it, technically.

LENA:

Right, right. So just setting up basically.

PODFIXX:

Yeah, yes. But sort of being able to present it in such a way that other people could use it and understand it and put it into practice for their recordings, because I helped write the guides for setting up and editing and what have you. So I guess I kind of learned how to do it- or rather I learned how to explain it. I knew how to do it but I learned more how to explain it. I’ve never had to do that before.

LENA:

Interesting.

PODFIXX:

And just for one little technical thing that I’d never used before and I didn’t think I’d use again, but I do. Is how to label tracks. And it seems such a regular thing to do, but I didn’t have a clue how to do it before, I didn’t have to do it.

LENA:

Yeah

PODFIXX:

For sure, couldn’t do it without it. You could do it without it but it would be such a slog. You’d be listening and listening and listening wouldn’t you, just trying to find your spots. So, yes.

LENA:

You couldn’t just jump from the dialogue from one piece to the next. You’d have to listen for when the next dialogue piece comes in. Well, that will be all for today, thank you for talking with us, Podders. Tell us, where can people find you online?

PODFIXX:

Well, I’m on ao3. My name’s Podfixx (she spells it out) everywhere. I am registered with Twitter so I do get notifications but I don’t tend to spend much time there. I spend a bit more time on Tumblr, and lots of time on ao3. And if you want to go direct to my recordings I’m on soundcloud.

LENA:

Well, thank you so much for talking with us, Podders.

PODFIXX:

Thank you very much indeed for having me, I’ve really enjoyed it.

LENA:

Thank you. So, this was all we have for today, in two weeks we’ll be talking to CompassRose, the voice of Crowley and our main graphic designer, so keep your ears ready for that.

OUTRO MUSIC


	4. Interview with CompassRose

**Interview with CompassRose**

We are halfway through the mammoth project that is Crown of Thorns Podrama, and we've got some extra content for you all!  
Along our way, we have managed to gather an amazing team of voice actors, editors, artists, musicians, and organizers.  
This is the start of a series of interviews with the team about their experience and involvement with the Crown of Thorns Podrama.  
We're continuing our interviews with CompassRose (Kai), who is reading the role of Crowley and assisting with all of our Graphic Design.  
They first read Good Omens in the 90s and have since enthusiastically "loaned" several copies to friends, never to be seen again.  
Since the TV series came out they've read approx. 1 million words Good Omens fic/month, and one hot night during the late summer of 2019, they picked up a microphone that was lying around and started making podfics,  
with an innocence born of the combination of decades of stage acting experience and almost zero knowledge of the technical demands of sound production.

Love,  
The CoT Pod'rama Team

Listen - [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/6hIHXYReLzXEv5FMwenYWL) / [Anchor](https://anchor.fm/crown-of-thorns-podrama/episodes/Interview-with-CompassRose-egtkk2)  
Listen and Download - [Archive.org](https://archive.org/details/interview-with-compass-rose)

**Where to Find CompassRose  
** [ AO3 ](https://archiveofourown.org/users/compassrose) / [ Twitter ](https://twitter.com/the_ahtist) / [ Tumblr ](https://outlikethat.tumblr.com/)

**Interview with CompassRose Team**  
Hosted By - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Composer - [ Nuitarie](https://soundcloud.com/nuitarie) Chapter Artist - [CompassRose](https://outlikethat.tumblr.com/)  
Interview Editor - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Head Editor - [UnholyCrowley](https://archiveofourown.org/users/UnholyCrowley) Transcripts By - [AJfanfic](https://archiveofourown.org/users/ajfanfic)

Length - 41:55 minutes

Question Time Stamps

00:10 Introduction: Tell us a bit about yourself, where are you from, what do you do aside from fandom?  
01:19 How did you land in fandoms?  
02:02 So you were already in fandom when you read Good Omens?  
02:35 Was fandom very different before the show?  
03:25 When did you start writing fanfics?  
04:03 When did you start podficcing?  
05:52 How did your podfic journey begin?  
06:48 How do you find writing fics different from podficcing?  
09:03 How did you get more involved with the podfic community?  
11:03 Have you made podfics in other fandoms aside from Good Omens?  
12:22 Had you read CoT before hearing about the Pod'rama?  
14:01 When did you decide to audition?  
14:58 Did you audition for Crowley from the very beginning?  
16:25 What is it like being Crowley?  
17:50 How did you start working as a graphic designer for CoT?  
19:30 Are you responsible for the CoT graphic style?  
20:21 What is the normal workflow of a chapter for you?  
24:34 Is it very time-consuming?  
26:25 You're also uploading the audio to archive.org?  
28:49 Do you listen to the finished chapters?  
29:39 Is Crowley your favourite character?  
33:39 What is something about Crowley that you identify with?  
35:53 What's something you've learned during this project?  
38:31 Question from @margot_thespian: Dear Voice of Crowley, how might one seduce you?

Transcript

INTRO MUSIC

LENA:

Hello, everyone, and welcome to our cast and crew Q&A. My name is Lena, and today I have for you an interview with CompassRose. Compass Rose or Kai is reading the role of Crowley and assisting with graphic design. They first read Good Omens in the 90s and have since enthusiastically loaned several copies to friends never to be seen again. Since the TV series came out they’ve read approximately one million words of Good Omens fic per month and one hot night during the late summer of twenty nineteen they picked up a microphone that was lying around and started making podfics with an innocent spawn off the combination of decades of stage acting experience and almost zero knowledge techniques of sound production. Kai, it's an honor to have you with us today. Tell us a bit about yourself before we start. Where are you from? What do you do aside from fandom?

COMPASSROSE:

I live in Canada, in the greater Toronto area where most Canadians live. And we're a vast country with a few little spots of people in it and outside of fandom, what do I do? Well, I read a lot. And professionally, I am, in fact, an in-house graphic designer.

LENA:

Awesome. That's amazing. So how do you land in fandom, then?

COMPASSROSE:

Man, I don't even remember a time when I was not more or less in fandom. I mean, as a kid, I used to write these long, rambling stories about Middle Earth. And pretty much the first thing that I did when I got on the Internet was discover web rings. You probably don't remember web rings.

LENA:

No, I'm not familiar.

COMPASSROSE:

And I got onto a bunch of newsgroups. At that point it was mostly for Doctor Who and for Sherlock Holmes, original Sherlock Holmes.

LENA:

Original in the books or is there a movie? I'm not familiar.

COMPASSROSE:

Original as in the books. Yes.

LENA:

Right. Right. That's cool. That's really cool. So you are already in fandom when you first read good omens?

COMPASSROSE:

Well, I mean, more or less, yes. But actively on, or as actively as I ever really was, no, because I didn't really get onto the internet until like the mid 90s.

LENA:

Gotcha. So you read at first and then eventually entered internet fandom. And do you remember early Good Omens fandom?

COMPASSROSE:

No, I was not involved in early Good Omens fandom, although I was definitely reading Good Omens fic well before the well before the show came out.

LENA:

I imagine that was very different, especially characterization.

COMPASSROSE:

It is, and it isn't. I mean, there's a certain, there's a certain kind of thing that's happened with the show, particularly in the characterization of Aziraphale and Crowley’s relationship. But really- especially I mean, especially now that I like the experience of fic reading, it's kind of surprising how it's continued, how there is a continuation between the book Omens fandom and the current fandom. And you can see you can see that there are, in fact, writing about the same thing. The one thing that I regret about the show is that it really made Aziraphale into this very soft, squishy teddy bear in many cases, not always, and book in Omen's fandom Aziraphale has a lot more edges.

LENA:

Right, right. Right. So you said you started writing fanfic before you were even in internet fandom.

COMPASSROSE:

And I didn't even know it was fanfic at that time. I mean, it was just stuff that I wrote and it was influenced by the stuff that I read and also by the fact that I was a really heavy Dungeons & Dragons player at the time. And so, yeah, it was terrible, and it's a good thing that it has lost to time forever because it was mostly my Mary Sue's in the form of my Dungeons & Dragons characters going into Middle Earth and having adventure.

LENA:

Aw, Mary Sues are so important to start writing.

COMPASSROSE:

A classic.

LENA:

So when did you start podficcing? Was it just with Good Omens or had you been familiar with that before?

COMPASSROSE:

I had not been familiar with it. I mean, I knew it existed, but I didn't pay that much attention to it. I watched Good Omens at the beginning of June last year with my friends. We all sat down over a weekend and we were like, we're going to watch this because it's really good. I think I was actually my idea and we sat on the couch in the basement and we watched it over two days and went out to like the corner and got barbecue from this barbecue place and drank tea. And that was it. And we were all blown away by it. We really loved it. And right after that, I started reading Good Omens Fic. I mean like actively reading. And there was that boom in Good Omens fic after the show came out. I mean, I don't think I've ever seen anything like it. So as I say in my bio, I started reading a million words or so of Good Omens fic per month. But I would also tell my friend, my one friend that I watch this with. I would say, look, I read this fic, it's great and it's really an amazing story and I'd love it if you would read it and and they would say, well you know- they hate reading on a screen. They won't read e-books either. Well, you know, that would be really nice. Maybe if it was printed out for me, I would read it. And eventually, I was alone in the house for a few weeks. My housemate was away and I was bored and it was really hot. It's like I think I'm going to read a story for my friend and I did. And that was my very first- and I picked a Good Omens story, obviously, because we had been talking about it so much. And then it took a lot of work. And I, I guess I had kind of thought of posting it, but I never really thought anybody else would listen to it. And I posted it and it was a lot of fun. And then I started doing more.

LENA:

So you sort of started your podficcing journey just jumping into it, right? Have you listened to any podfic before?

COMPASSROSE:

No, no, not really. I mean, I'd listen to bits of a few and I'd listen to bits of a few audiobooks. But really, listening to audio is not a way that I would read. I read really quickly and I find audio for the most part goes too slowly. So unless it has something else about it, I wouldn't read normally, read via audio.

LENA:

Yeah, I agree.

COMPASSROSE:

But I really like to read aloud. That's something that I've always enjoyed and actually my friend and I often read aloud to each other, and we've since we were in high school together, we've done things like just sit down and have a table read of a play that we like just for fun.

LENA:

Oh, that's really cool.

COMPASSROSE:

Yeah.

LENA:

Yeah, I can relate to enjoying reading out loud, but not so much listening all the time. Yeah. And so in terms of creating for fandom, how do you find writing fic different from podfic or how do you find it similar?

COMPASSROSE:

It's completely different and, well, I mean, if you've looked on my ao3 I've only ever published two fanfics. And in fact, if you look at those, they're still- I'm still really writing Mary Sues in someone else's world. That is that seems to be the way my imagination works, which is not usually very acceptable in most of fandom. I mean, I don't know. There's been a shift in that recently. But anyhow, so another impetus behind me wanting to read- behind me wanting to make podfics or read stories out loud or whatever was that in general- I mean, I do some other writing as well or have done, and for the last, I don't know, two years or so, I've been in the throes of the worst kind of writer's block. I foolishly took a couple of writing courses and they absolutely froze my imagination and paralyzed with indecision and woke up my internal editor in the worst way. And podficcing is something completely different for me. I'm an actor. I've trained as an actor. I've worked as an actor, I've even been paid to work as an actor over the years. And I've been doing that since I was like 16 years old. And it's a completely different skill set. I'm interpreting and I'm confident on that level, even without having a director or someone to tell me how to do something, I feel confident in my acting choices and in my narrative choices. And I don't feel that same kind of internal judgment when it's- when it's my thing but it's not like my thing right down to the bottom. You know what I mean?

LENA:

Yeah, you're just interpreting.

COMPASSROSE:

Yeah. If I'm putting out my own text, there's more of a vulnerability there and I feel much more self-conscious about it. And I'm much more likely to say, oh, this isn't good enough. I can't do this.

LENA:

I understand that. So, after you started podficcing and started posting it to ao3 and everything. How do you get more involved with the podfic community? How did you find it?.

COMPASSROSE:

I think I had some kind of a problem with the second one. Something about posting it. I couldn't figure out how to do it. And I saw I was just searching and I ran into a link for podfic chat is how that happened. And I joined podfic chat and I asked my question and everybody was really nice. They were like, oh yeah. If you want to know more podficcers, you know, here we all are on Twitter. Here we all are on Tumblr. And everyone was so nice. And for the pretty much the first time in years, like since the old chat groups that I was on had closed down and disappeared, I found that I was actually actively involved in fandom with people as opposed to just passively and reading as much as I did, which I always have done.

LENA:

Yeah.

COMPASSROSE:

And also involved in making things because podficcers, they're all about the multi voice. And here's a multi voice you want to sign up and I was like oh, sure I’d love to do a multi voice. And it was fun.

LENA:

And now here you are.

COMPASSROSE:

And now here I am. I mean, I don't know if I'm that much further on than I was or different that I was.

LENA:

Well, no but for sure you are in a big, big multi voice. I mean, Crown of Thorns is huge in terms of how many voice actors we have.

COMPASSROSE:

I know, not just voice actors, but everybody! Even other multi voices that I've looked at, most of them don't seem to have the same level of just organized participation that we do. This is an immensely impressive project. I can't believe how it goes and how well it's worked thus far. Knock on wood.

LENA:

And so you’ve been part of, especially pod chat where there's so many people from so many fandoms, have you been involved in other fandoms since, other than recording for Good Omens?

COMPASSROSE:

I look forward to the day when Good Omens is actually at the bottom of my fandoms list on ao3.

LENA:

So not, yet.

COMPASSROSE:

Me being involved in Good Omens is, again, it's the first time in probably ever that I've ever been that single fandom. In general, stuff that I've read, I will read anything that you rec to me if you are persuasive enough. I will read anything. I don't care what the fandom is. And I love experiencing things through other people's interpretations. I love seeing things through other people's eyes, that seems to me to be the most valuable and precious thing about reading anything to me is to experience something that I would not normally think to experience or that I might not look for on my own.

LENA:

Just seeing how the people interpret the world around them, I guess.

COMPASSROSE:

Yeah, interpret the world around them and what they value and what things they see and what things leap to their eyes and what they will then make important in their work.

LENA:

Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I see what you mean. So in reading approximately a million words per month of Good Omens fic, did you find Crown of Thorns or was it pitched to you?

COMPASSROSE:

I had read Crown of Thorns before that, because I had read some bits of Good Omens fic before that just because, as I say, I would read in any fandom and because I was familiar with the book, I would definitely read Good Omens. I think I had been picking at Crown of Thorns because it was unfinished. A.J. made a big push to finish it before the show came out. But I had probably first read it maybe a year before. Or whatever existed a year before, and then I had been following it after that. I remember I recc’d it on my Twitter well, before the show came out, because on my Twitter, I usually- I've been kind of lax about it lately, but I normally do a monthly roundup of everything I've read and I do little recs of the things that I like the best. And I had rec’d Crown of Thorns and A.J. and I had a little conversation on Twitter and they sent me a notification like, they sent me a little note when they finished it and said, hey, it's finished. If you want to finish reading it, straight here. So I had read it before the show came out and I had finished it before the show came out, and I had always really liked it. I thought it was a brilliant piece of work.

LENA:

So you were aware of it by the time Literarion started trying to find people to read for it?

COMPASSROSE:

Yes. And I think Lit had posted on the podfic chat. And that was how I found out about the multi voice. But I was really excited to hear that someone was doing a multi voice of it.

LENA:

Right. So you wanted to participate, like from the first time you heard about it?

COMPASSROSE:

Oh, I didn't think I was good enough.

LENA:

Oh really!

COMPASSROSE:

I agonized about whether I was going to sign up or not. The whole audition process for some reason and I mean, I'm an actor. But yes, auditioning does paralyze me. So I was like, oh, yeah, no, there'd be way better people I shouldn't even sign up for this.

LENA:

Oh my God, I can't believe that. Oh no. So what gave you the final push? How did you finally decide that, yes, you were going to audition.

COMPASSROSE:

I think actually, my friend finally gave me the push, my friend who originally I had started making Good Omens fic for.

LENA:

Oh, wow, that's crazy.

COMPASSROSE:

They said don't be silly. Just do it. And then I thought about it again. I was like, oh, this seems like a lot of work. And I dithered about it again. And then I finally did sign up for it.

LENA:

Oh, my God. And did you audition for Crowley since the very beginning? Or did you have any other characters in mind, or?

COMPASSROSE:

I auditioned for Crowley and narrator. And then I think I basically said, just put me anywhere. I think I said something like, oh, I would love to do a whole bunch of little characters and do different voices for all of them.

LENA:

Mm hmm. And then they came back to you and they said, hey, you're going to be Crowley.

COMPASSROSE:

Yes.

LENA:

What was that like?

COMPASSROSE:

It was actually a huge relief because after that I had really thought about what it would be like to be the narrator, that I was paralyzed with terror, that they were gonna ask me to narrate. And now that I have seen what it's like, I'm even more glad that that didn't happen.

LENA:

Yeah.

COMPASSROSE:

Not merely because Podfixx is a brilliant narrator, and I don't know how you would choose anyone else given that choice.

LENA:

I mean, it's amazing. Like, really, the final choice to go with Podfixx as narrator, I think it's perfect. But frankly, I'm just happy that you're not narrating just so we can hear you as Crowley. I honestly, I haven't been able to hear Crowley in anyone else's voice since I've heard you as Crowley. So there we are.

COMPASSROSE:

I have so many Crowleys. It's my terrible sibilance. I was born to read Crowley.

LENA:

Maybe you were, maybe you were.

COMPASSROSE:

Maybe I was.

LENA:

So now that we are way into the project, tell us a bit, what is it like being Crowley? Tell us some inside knowledge.

COMPASSROSE:

Well, this Crowley has a lot of fun. I really enjoy this Crowley, because he is so smart and cranky and sulky about it. And there's something about the way that he's written, my voice for this Crowley comes out of the way that this Crowley has written. I don't read any other Crowley this way. And in fact, it's difficult for me to read any other Crowley this way.

LENA:

Really?

COMPASSROSE:

Really.

LENA:

Interesting, because I do somehow imagine your voice whenever I'm reading Crowley, I'm just like, yep, this is how it would sound like it. It sort of fits for me.

COMPASSROSE:

And oh, I forgot about the part that I love the best about this Crowley. The part I love the best is that he knows Shakespeare by heart.

LENA:

You like that.

COMPASSROSE:

The Shakespeare parts are my favorite parts.

LENA:

Really? You like reciting- well, you were trained as an actor. Yeah.

COMPASSROSE:

Yeah.

LENA:

I imagine you- have you ever acted in a Shakespeare play?

COMPASSROSE:

Not as many as I would have liked, but I did play Laertes in an all female production of Hamlet, and really enjoyed it.

LENA:

Well, I'm glad. Going on a bit about what you do, so to speak, in real life, you're also helping the project as a graphic designer.

COMPASSROSE:

Yes.

LENA:

How did you start working on that?

COMPASSROSE:

In the project?

LENA:

Yes.

COMPASSROSE:

I think there was just a discussion in one of the early voice meetings that said we needed something, something, something for chapters. And I said, well, I could do that. And then I just did up some stuff. And then before I knew it, I found that I was doing like all of the graphics.

LENA:

All the graphics. Yeah, because you are doing almost all the graphics. Yes, except, you know, the chapter art for every chapter. Those we have different artists. But even the frames, you’re working on that.

COMPASSROSE:

Well I mean what I'm doing is not, it's not art. I'm doing design and layout. And that- there's a split there.

LENA:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. How are you finding that? Tell us a bit about that.

COMPASSROSE:

I'm enjoying it. I'm really liking doing design for podfic in general. What I do, I'm an in-house graphic designer and what that means is I am employed by a place, a company, and I do all the design work for them, which means that I'm limited in certain ways. You know, we have a house style and we have certain things that need to be done. And you always have to use the same logo and it always has to go in the same place. So doing stuff like this, I have a lot more freedom. And because I haven't been doing a lot of outside graphic design, I'm finding that it's giving me just in general a lot of experience and room to experiment that I'm liking on a professional level as well.

LENA:

Yeah, I didn't think about that. So are you responsible for the currently, I imagine the color palette or the logo or?

COMPASSROSE:

I'm not responsible for the logo. Shae_C did the logo. I guess, yeah, I guess I'm responsible for all of that. Although everybody else did have input and everything has been run through the server. People have had a chance to comment and to choose what they wanted. I mean, for most things, I've offered several different choices and people have said what they liked. So I didn't- I wasn't designing in a vacuum or saying this is what I've done here, you must accept it or I will leave. I will flounce away.

LENA:

So it was collaborative.

COMPASSROSE:

Yeah, like I tried to make it as collaborative as I could.

LENA:

And now that the style, so to speak, is sort of decided, what is a normal week or like, what is the normal workflow for graphic design? Because I'm the first that will admit I just have no idea exactly how it works. I just know that whenever social media needs the graphics, we go to you. And you're like, here it is, I've done my magic.

COMPASSROSE:

At this point, that's basically all it is. And anyone could do the magic. I mean, I hope anyone could do the magic because I've left the files there. Everything is there for anyone to access. So really, when you do something like this, ideally what you want to do is have a template. I mean, you do want to have sort of an in-house style. So what I've ended up doing is I've made myself yet another in-house designer, but this time for Crown of Thorns. So I've self established a style, like, where I'm going to use the logo and what kind of fonts I'm going to use and in general what color palette I'm going to use and what kind of elements I'm going to use. Like, I'm always, almost always going to include something relating to the sea because that's so important to the story. So that's why there are always shells or beaches or waves or whatever. Where possible I use something relating to the wild rose because that's so significant. That's the meaning of the Crown of Thorns title, it's about Crowley’s importing the wild sea roses from the U.S. to the cottage on the South Downs. I have tried to search for images specifically from the South Downs where I can. I mean, I probably didn't have to do that, but it was something that I attempted to do. So anything that has a scene in it, it's usually a scene that's actually been tagged as from the south of England at the very least. And the font was chosen because it actually is, the main font for Crown of Thorns was chosen, it actually is the font that's used on many of the English editions of Good Omens.

LENA:

Wow, I would never have guessed.

COMPASSROSE:

It's called Caslon Antique. Yeah.

LENA:

Oh! Again, what is the name?

COMPASSROSE:

Caslon Antique.

LENA:

Wow. Well if anyone wants to do very, very interesting graphic design. They know that font now.

COMPASSROSE:

It's kind of a thing. You get an eye for fonts. It's more difficult nowadays because there's been also a boom in font design, but I used to be able to just look at a sign driving by and I'd go, oh yes, that's bold Palatino.

LENA:

That's- okay, A real professional here. Okay, wow. Yeah. I would never have thought of using the original font.

COMPASSROSE:

It's kind of like the way people used to be able to identify cars on site, like my dad could. You could see a car go by, and he’d go, oh yes. That's a Triumph, 1979. Right. But it's a lot harder to do that now because there are more cars.

LENA:

There are more cars. Yeah. Sorry I interrupted you. I was just so amazed that you chose the font because of that then.

COMPASSROSE:

So I, so I, I have created, more or less, a style template for what I will design and most of the stuff that I'm giving you, I not only have a style template, I have an actual template like any of the stuff that's the credits or the social media, all of that. I've built it and if you need a new one for a new date, I'm just changing that information and I'm handing you the new thing, and it literally takes me 10 minutes. Where it gets different is if I'm designing something new, like you wanted an image for these interviews. So I went back to those themes at the sea and something, you know, it's pretty literal, what I've done for it. I've got the microphone and then I've got the word mark and I've got a seashell. So I'm trying to bring together those elements in a general color palette. And that's how I created it. So I was searching for elements. And then I'm putting them together and making the thing. And that's what I'll do in any case, when you're asking me for something new.

LENA:

That's really cool. I do imagine it's sort of time consuming, even though it's ten minutes, because we do have a ton of graphics for all of the chapters.

COMPASSROSE:

Oh yeah. Doing it cumulatively is immensely time consuming every time I update your stuff. Like when I, when I give you, you know, 10 weeks of stuff at a time, that'll usually take me a day to do because I'll have to change every single thing.

LENA:

Right.

COMPASSROSE:

For every single date and export every single thing and do that over and over for each date and for each date, each date might have, I don't know what, like four or five separate individual things for it. And then for the chapter titles, I did something kind of dumb.

LENA:

What happened?

COMPASSROSE:

I couldn't find- I wanted it to look like it was just- and I'm not quite- I had this idea that it would be like Aziraphale taking a note. So I wanted each chapter title page to have the title written on it, hand written on it. And I spent ages looking for exactly the right handwriting font. And I didn't really like any of them, and nobody else on the server liked any of them. So what I ended up doing was handwriting, it in my own handwriting every time. So every time I do a chapter title page, I have to actually sit down and hand write the chapter chapter title in a way that will fit into the layout of the page. And then I have to scan it and put it in.

LENA:

Oh, that's so amazing, that it's such a personal touch. I love it. I didn't know that.

COMPASSROSE:

Well, now you do.

LENA:

That's for the frames, right?

COMPASSROSE:

Yeah, for the frames. So that handwritten chapter title is in my handwriting on all of the frames.

LENA:

That's lovely. I love that. I already loved that. And now I love it even more. And then to move on a little from graphic design, you're also the one who uploads the actual audio to some of the platforms, correct?

COMPASSROSE:

Just to the Archive, the Internet Archive, mostly because putting things on the Internet Archive was my idea. And I said, oh, then I'll do the uploads.

LENA:

Were you around when it was decided which places on the internet things would be uploaded to? Because when I was a part of a project that I wasn't here for.

COMPASSROSE:

I think that was also in one of the early voice meetings. But I'm pretty sure that for the most part, Literarion had already chosen which ones she wanted. And I was the one who persuaded them for Archive.org. And really, my reasoning for that was more archival. And I'm actually hoping very much, I mean, I know that the Internet Archive has run into some problems recently, which I think have been resolved. In many cases, fandom, and particularly audio fandom, in general, and I've noticed that even more as I've become more involved in podfic, is very ephemeral. You know, the Archive of Our Own has been a project that was conceived, in part, as a way of making a more permanent record of fan creations. But it is only actually archiving written works. Yeah, and audio works are just all over the place and many of the places where our audio works are uploaded and stored, they're broken or they're gone or they're paid for things that are going to go away when the people die or lose interest or whatever, right? And this is such an immense and amazing project and it's had so much work put it into it, and within this fandom, it seems like a very important project. And so I wanted it to be on something that wasn't going to go away when someone stopped paying for their SoundCloud or whatever, that wasn't going to end up as a broken link on ao3. And so that was why I argued for also putting it up on the Internet Archive.

LENA:

Yeah. So all in all, you're doing a ton of pieces of what ends up becoming every chapter of this project. Do you listen to the final chapters as they come out?

COMPASSROSE:

Not as they come up, but I think I've listened to most of them. Eventually.

LENA:

Eventually. Right, right. Right. So, how are you finding them, meeting your expectations?

COMPASSROSE:

Oh, they're amazing. It's really come out. It's really come out phenomenally well. And as a theatrical piece, it's been amazingly successful. I think everybody that we've chosen for our acting has done a really great job and the characters are blowing me away. And Podfixx as a narrator is so consistent and so expressive. I can't say enough about the work that she's doing. And a massive, massive amount of it.

LENA:

Yeah, totally. Is there a favorite character that you have or is just Crowley your favorite character?

COMPASSROSE:

Is Crowley my favorite character? Crowley is definitely my favorite character to perform, but he can also be a phenomenal asshole.

LENA:

For sure.

COMPASSROSE:

I really like Uriel, actually.

LENA:

Uriel?

COMPASSROSE:

Yeah. And I love the job that Izzy is doing with Uriel. I like Pippa, a lot. I actually thought about auditioning for Pippa, but I didn't quite think that my voice and my characterisation would be a match. And I love what KerrAvon is doing with Pippa.

LENA:

Oh, for sure.

COMPASSROSE:

Just so gentle and sweet and yet so somehow incisive.

LENA:

Yeah, it’s very Pippa, yup.

COMPASSROSE:

Yeah, and really everything that I usually love in fanfic- I’m much more into, really, things that take the canon and spin off from it. I’m not- stuff that is just continuing canon or within canon or is very strict about canon adherence is not usually my favorite thing. I mean, I've certainly read ones that are very well done, but what I love is when people go okay, I've got a canon but that’s just my starting point and I’m going to do something with it and that is what Crown of Thorns is. It is immense, and it is starting from a canon point but the original characters and the original parts of it are what really make it what it is, so all of the original characters in Crown of Thorns, I love them to pieces.

LENA:

Yeah, yeah I agree. It definitely gives the impression that it’s a universe in itself, like the Crown of Thorns universe.

COMPASSROSE:

Yes, and you have the feeling that even though normally what you’re seeing is this very small piece of it, you know, mostly at the South Downs and every now and then where they travel to, you feel that there is a whole world there.

LENA:

Yeah.

COMPASSROSE:

And it’s solid and real, and every part of it.

LENA:

It breathes.

COMPASSROSE:

It moves and grows.

LENA:

And it's also not static in the UK. The novel and also, to an extent, the tv show are very centered on London, mostly. And this universe has them traveling around the world, and Uriel and Raphael are always like, in the States and always coming to and from, it’s kind of amazing.

COMPASSROSE:

The one thing, there are a couple of things that I’m really sad didn’t get included in the TV show, but the one thing that I really regret is when Azirphale comes down to Earth and looks for a body after he gets discorporated by Shadwell. In the book he actually jumps around the world.

LENA:

I remember, yes.

COMPASSROSE:

And, you know, he goes to America and he briefly processes a Bible thumping fundamentalist TV preacher, for instance, but that kind of thing, I’m really sorry it didn’t make it into the show.

LENA:

Yeah. I remember reading that, and yeah. It was a little bit, like- It was so good for characterization of Aziraphale that it’s really sad it didn’t get into the show.

COMPASSROSE:

Yeah, and that's an example of Aziraphale being, as he is described in the book, a bit of a bastard.

LENA:

Indeed. He, yeah, he had some fun in those jumping from body to body. Alright, so let's move on to the last two questions I end up asking all the people coming for these interviews. For you as a voice actor, tell me what is the one thing that you identify with most about Crowley?

COMPASSROSE:

Every now and then, this Crowley will go off on a little tear and he’ll lecture about stuff and I also have a terrible tendency to be like that. I mean, one of the last- one of the most recent things I recorded was the episode where he, or the chapter where he talks about Hamlet, I think they’ve just watched Derek Jacobi’s Hamlet and then Crowley goes off on this lecture on Hamlet and what it means, and then he has a sexy little Hamlet moment with Aziraphale.

LENA:

Oh yes, that’s 39, isn’t it? I have to edit that in today, cause I edited in Aziraphale but I still haven’t edited you into the full chapter, so.

COMPASSROSE.

Well, I hope you enjoy what I did with it, it was a lot of fun to do.

LENA:

I’m sure I will. So, lecturing people, huh?

COMPASSROSE:

It’s just that he’s, he’s a very didactic character, really, and he’s very, he’s very grounded in a strange way. You know?

LENA:

Yeah.

COMPASSROSE:

Aziraphale treats him as this fragile boy, and in many ways he seems to be, but also in any case where people are like, what is the sensible thing to do, Crowley is going to be doing the sensible thing. I mean, I mean he also like, he doesn’t want to replace his cellphone, he doesn’t want to waste money on a new computer, he’s very concerned about all of these practicalities of living and yet at the same time he’s so- and he’s also very uncomfortable with people and I very much relate to that.

LENA:

That’s a mood, yeah.

COMPASSROSE:

Unfortunately. Me, sitting under a table, talking to the one kid in the room, yes, that would also be me.

LENA:

Perfect for one another then.

COMPASSROSE:

Yes, yes. And I know how to drive standard so I could drive the Bentley.

LENA:

Well, there’s one more thing. And then, finally, what’s something that you have learned, during this project?

COMPASSROSE:

I have learned a lot about working on a large collaborative project, and about delivering my shit on time, which has always been a problem for me through my entire professional career. It's been very helpful for me, actually.

LENA:

That is something I’d been talking through with Podfixx, as well.

COMPASSROSE:

Yeah?

LENA:

Yeah. She was telling me that she puts a lot of effort into turning everything in on time, she prides herself in doing that, and myself- I know that I tend to drag things and sometimes procrastinate, so I really admire that you guys are always turning in on time, or being very responsible if you need one more day or something, just letting everyone know on the server. Yeah.

COMPASSROSE:

Well, yes, but also, the way that it has been structured, and I really have to shout out Literarion for this, has been so helpful in doing that, because it has given me a structure where I can see exactly what I have to do and when it has to be done and if I’m going to unavoidably be unable to deliver something on time, because everything is so carefully laid out it’s like a little helpful ladder for all of us more flail-y creative times to climb on.

LENA:

Yeah, it definitely helps.

COMPASSROSE:

That has been so helpful and just seeing how it has been built and how it works with everybody has helped me to learn more about how something like that could be structured elsewhere, and how I could make things, make systems that will work for me, and help me to be less of a complete flake. Right?

LENA:

Apply it somewhere else. Yes, agreed.

COMPASSROSE:

Yeah, and apply it somewhere else. Because that has normally been my trepidation with doing joint projects because if I'm not sure of the solid expectations, I’m very afraid and very much tend to procrastinate and leave things to the very last minute, and do them at the last minute. And maybe deliver late, or whatever. So if I’m working completely on my own I can just take my time and it doesn’t matter if I let myself down.

LENA:

Right, no, I totally relate to that. Alright, and then, to finish, I have one more question from one of our listeners. We got this question on Twitter from @maga_thespian, and they said: “Dear voice of Crowley, how might one seduce you?”

COMPASSROSE:

Well. We talked earlier about how I was similar to Crowley, and I don’t think I mentioned this, but I am also, like Crowley, a huge disaster with absolutely no self esteem. So the first step in seducing the voice of Crowley is making sure the voice of Crolwey knows a seduction attempt is being performed, because otherwise I will be over in a corner being a ball of anxiety and thinking absolutely no one is interested, regardless of what I might think.

LENA:

No, no, no, no, no, you’re super interesting! Just wait until everyone listens to this interview.

COMPASSROSE:

Well, I mean, everyone thinks Crowley is super interesting too, so that’s also-

LENA:

See that’s one more similarity.

COMPASSROSE:

But yes, I would be over there, being a huge, vibrating, electric shock of anxiety, thinking oh, oh, I really like them, what am I going to do, I can’t even look at them, and probably flee the room in some kind of terror.

LENA:

Well, there’s that then.

COMPASSROSE:

There’s that then. But an alternative is always to do things with words or write me poetry, that is a tried and true successful technique.

LENA:

Ooh, well then, I’m sure you’re going to get a lot of poetry from now on, from all of our listeners.

COMPASSROSE:

Stupid limericks accepted.

LENA:

Alright.

COMPASSROSE:

My inbox is always open for stupid limericks.

LENA:

Well, thank you for talking with us Kai, and tell us, where can people find you online?

COMPASSROSE:

You can find me online at different places all of which have different names because I have never yet managed to keep a consistent pseudonym anywhere. I am on Archive of our Own as CompassRose, where you can hear all of my podfics, some of them very weird. I am on Twitter as The_Ahrtist, and that’s where you will find my little capsule book and fic reviews, and I am on Tumblr as OutLikeThat, and all I really do there is reblog stuff that makes me laugh.

LENA:

Alright, thank you very much.

COMPASSROSE:

Thank you, Lena.

LENA:

So this is all we have for today. In two weeks, we’ll be talking to GorillazGal86, the voice actor for Sophia Device, so keep your ears ready for that.

OUTRO MUSIC


	5. Interview with Gorillazgal86

**Interview with Gorillazgal86**

We are halfway through the mammoth project that is Crown of Thorns Podrama, and we've got some extra content for you all!  
Along our way, we have managed to gather an amazing team of voice actors, editors, artists, musicians, and organizers.  
This is the start of a series of interviews with the team about their experience and involvement with the Crown of Thorns Podrama.  
We're continuing our interviews with Gorillazgal86 (Mags), who is a voice actor for the CoT project and will be playing the role of Sophia Device-Young.  
She is very new to voice acting, having discovered podficcing after falling madly and deeply in love with Good Omens when the TV series released in Summer 2019 and has been prolifically recording ever since.

Love,  
The CoT Pod'rama Team

Listen - [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/05Cjky7dgeCP78m3mMxMJJ) / [Anchor](https://anchor.fm/crown-of-thorns-podrama/episodes/Interview-with-Gorillazgal86-ehhi13/a-a2rdoah)  
Listen and Download - [Archive.org](https://archive.org/details/interview-with-gorillazgal-86)

**Where to Find Gorillazgal86  
** [AO3](https://archiveofourown.org/users/Gorillazgal86/works) / [Tumblr](https://gorillazgal86.tumblr.com) / [Soundcloud](https://soundcloud.com/user-107259160)

**Interview with Gorillazgal86 Team**  
Hosted By - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Composer - [ Nuitarie](https://soundcloud.com/nuitarie) Chapter Artist - [CompassRose](https://outlikethat.tumblr.com/)  
Interview Editor - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Head Editor - [UnholyCrowley](https://archiveofourown.org/users/UnholyCrowley) Transcripts By - [AJfanfic](https://archiveofourown.org/users/ajfanfic)

Length - 24:16 minutes

Question Time Stamps

00:01 Introduction: Tell us a bit about yourself, where are you from, what do you do aside from fandom?  
02:04 How did you land in fandoms?  
03:20 Had you read Good Omens before the show aired?  
04:06 What did you think of the book?  
05:19 When did you get into the Good Omens fandom?  
06:03 Do also write fanfic?  
06:36 How do you find writing different from podficcing?  
08:10 Have you done any acting or voice acting before getting into podfic?  
09:09 How have you found the podfic community?  
10:15 Have you recorded in other fandoms?  
11:35 Had you read CoT before you knew about the Pod'rama?  
12:29 What was it like, being approached about the Pod'rama?  
13:18 What characters were you interested in auditioning for?  
14:12 Did you know Sophia when you got the role?  
14:32 Could you describe Sophia from your point of view?  
16:14 Do you listen to the finished chapters with all the VAs?  
17:10 Do you read the entire chapter as you record your lines, or do you wait until they're out to read along with the audio?  
17:56 What is one thing about your character that you really identify with?  
19:25 What's something you've learned during this project?  
20:57 Question from tired_but_still_kicking: What are your favourite parts of the Good Omens fandom?  
22:59 Where can people find you?

Transcript

INTRO MUSIC

LENA:

Hello, everyone, and welcome to our cast and crew Q&A. My name is Lena, and today I have for you an interview with GorillazGal86. GorillazGal86, AKA Mags, is a voice actor for the Crown of Thorns Project and plays the role of Sophia Device. She fell madly, deeply in love with Good Omens when the TV series released in the summer of 2019 and has been prolifically recording ever since. Mags, it's an honor to have you with us today. Tell us a bit about yourself before we start. Where are you from? What do you do aside from fandom?

GORILLAZGAL86:

Thank you, it's fun to be here, thank you for doing- or recording me. So as you said, I’m Mags, by day I work in financial crime prevention, is the short story of it. It keeps the day busy. I am sorry, I've forgotten the rest of the question.

LENA:

Oh, just where are you from, If you're comfortable telling that.

GORILLAZGAL86:

Yeah, no, I'm originally from the US, but I've been in Northern Ireland for nearly 10 years.

LENA:

Awesome. What is- how did you put it? Financial crime prevention?

GORILLAZGAL86:

It's anti money laundering. So effectively, I work for a bank.

LENA:

Oh, OK.

GORILLAZGAL86:

It sounds more glamorous than it is, but it keeps a roof over the head.

LENA:

No, yeah. I've never heard about that. And what do you have to do? I've never thought about it.

GORILLAZGAL86:

Well, predominantly, without giving too much away because my job is quite- where I'm at is quite specialized.

LENA:

Right.

GORILLAZGAL86:

But I review client profiles and make sure that we've assessed the risk properly in that we understand who has an account with us and that we can keep track of if they're up to any badness. So I'm on the front end of it. I’ve been doing that now for five years, so it keeps me out of trouble. And I find it interesting. I'm lucky to enjoy what I do.

LENA:

Yeah, that's really cool. I sort of knew that that was the thing banks did, but I never met anyone who worked at that really. So that's really cool. And on the fandom side of things, how did you land in fandom originally?

GORILLAZGAL86:

So many, many moons ago, I was quite into fandom, I suppose when I was a teenager, so would have been quite into anime. So Evangelion was huge for me. Gorillaz, the band, of course, hence the name picked sixteen and held many years later and just kind of various things. Harry Potter, I think was big, Lord of the Rings. And just as I kind of moved into university, didn't- kind of it faded out as time ran thin. I met a good looking boy, moved to Ireland and have been a bit busy since, and then watched Good Omens last year and was just like, I want to, you know- like quite driven to go do- to read fan fiction and fandom, you know, like I found, as I said, this kind of podcast, sorry podfic thing. And I was like, oh, that's the thing people do now, OK, I would quite fancy a go at that. So just kind of read up on it, read up on some of the history and kind of where it got started, how to do it and then got a microphone and kind of haven't stopped ever since.

LENA:

Right. Did you read Good Omens before the show was out? Were you in the fandom before?

GORILLAZGAL86

No, so it's all new to me from the series. I must admit, I read the book straight after, but no, had just come across, I think, an advert on Amazon. And I was like, oh, David Tennant, don't mind if I do. I scheduled that for viewing.

LENA:

Fair enough, fair enough.

GORILLAZGAL86:

In fact, I did the crime of thinking it was Martin Sheen and not Michael Sheen, which I've obviously since learned my lesson. I just fell head over heels for it. It was just such a compelling fun story and this really sweet relationship at the heart of it. I just- I was charmed and here we are.

LENA:

And how did you find the book after the show? Because I find a lot of people who have done it the other way, first read the book and then the show came out. How was the experience the other way around?

GORILLAZGAL86:

I really enjoyed it, although I was already quite knee deep in Aziraphale and Crowley, so I did find like getting through The Them parts and that's where I was like, no, I'm reading it. I'm going to read it page to page every word. But, you know, so that was- I think folks that maybe came into it with the book first might have been less biased in that respect in terms of the other characters. Yeah, but no, I really enjoyed it. There was a lot of similarities. And I think that, you know, “oh, lord, heal this bike” is in the book as well and I just howled. But no, it was-

LENA:

Yeah, I think it is, yeah. The scene with Anathema, when she meets them and she was like, oh no, there wasn't any danger, just a couple pals.

GORILLAZGAL86:

Exactly. No, it's all so sweet and it's- you know, it's just a lovely story. There's no- it's about Armageddon, but it couldn't be more- it's easy reading. It's just- it lifts you. And so it was my summer read last year. So it was fantastic.

LENA

Awesome. And then you got into the fandom, I imagine, almost immediately, right?

GORILLAZGAL86:

Pretty close thereafter. So I started reading fanfic and was just sitting kind of on the outskirts. And as soon as I started to dive into what this podfic thing was, I decided I was like, well, I'll have a go at it and we'll see how it goes. And then it was just I kept wanting to record and just had the best time doing it. I hadn't really done anything creative for the better part of ten years. I would write as well, that would kind of be my thing back in the day. And I would still occasionally but no, just the ability to sit and read and just there are so many talented writers in the fandom that it was just spoilt for choice.

LENA:

Right. So you also write fanfic or have you restarted?

GORILLAZGAL86:

Yeah, no, I have restarted. I couldn't count under my belt. I've done a lot of collaborations with a good friend of mine, **???**. What else, and a couple on my own as well. So no, still kind of write in between and record. So keep, keep very, very busy.

LENA:

That's nice.

GORILLAZGAL86:

Lockdown's been handy for fandom.

LENA:

It has, if there is one thing that's been better after quarantine it has been fandom.

GORILLAZGAL86:

Indeed.

LENA:

And so creatively, how do you find writing different from podficcing?

GORILLAZGAL86:

I suppose when you're writing you are, you're in charge of the story and you have to make everything rather come together. And that kind of creation side of it is quite a bit of fun. But I also quite enjoy the performance side of it, which is more on the podfic side. I can write. I wouldn't say I'm the best writer. There are so many more, you know, better authors out there and it's a privilege to be able to read their words. And they're just lovely on the tongue and just roll off your teeth and you're like, these are things I would love to be able to write, but I think it's the ability to perform them and to really get into the characters and you understand a story in such a different way when you're recording it. Obviously when you write it as well, because you're in that world. But I think when you're recording it, you're a third party, but you're also very closely connected to it because the time you're recording, that's all you can think about. You can't be on your phone.

LENA:

Right.

GORILLAZGAL86:

You're literally just-it's you and the microphone and the words. And it's meditative and it's wonderful. It's just the most relaxing thing.

Yeah. No, that's right. You're in the moment. It's like the whole mindfulness thing that people are so-

GORILLAZGAL86:

Absolutely.

LENA:

Yeah. It's getting popular, the mindfulness, but it's true that you can sort of get into that headspace with a lot of things that you just enjoy single mindedly. So that's really nice. Yeah. I agree with you. Um, and so have you done any acting or voice acting before, aside from podfic, before you were aware of it?

GORILLAZGAL86:

Only in high school, and even then, I would have been more on, like the set crews and that sort of thing, I wasn't. Well, you know, I would occasionally get into a play, but was never picked for a lead role or anything. So certainly no voice acting and a bit like everything else, I think once high school finished and university kicked off that kind of stuff, just slowed down and died a death for nearly 10 years. But weirdly, I come from an acting family. You know, my granddad would have acted like local theater and my dad as well. So there was a connection there. And, you know, there's a performance, at least in the genes somewhere. But for myself, it had been a long time.

LENA:

Right. And then you just delve deep into podfic, I guess.

GORILLAZGAL86:

That's it.

LENA:

And you said you started researching how it was done, how have you found the community?

GORILLAZGAL86:

It's been good. I'm fairly on the outskirts, I must admit. So I would- I'm predominantly a lurker, just kind of watching what's going on and seeing what other folks are up to, more of a reader than a talker, although that may be forgiven for this, I'm talking your ear off. Everyone seems so friendly and supportive. And there was like, I think there's a discord, but I couldn't tell you the name of it off the top of my head.

LENA:

PodficChat?

GORILLAZGAL86:

That's it. And just if you've got a question, you can dive in there, you know- how to do music, what kind of music would suit? I don't do it very often. Cover art, these sort of things. You can kind of get an idea what's going on but haven't- have to admit, I’m not overly interactive. This is the most interaction I've done with, I think, other podficcers.

LENA:

Mm hmm. No, that's good, because mostly what I found most interesting really about the podfic community is how a lot of people will record for almost anything. You can mention a story to them and if they like the story, they will record it. So I was wondering if you picked up on that and started to record for fandoms you're not really in sometimes? Because I know that happened to me. I started looking into stories that I didn't really know, but I was like, hey, this could be recorded. Has that happened to you?

GORILLAZGAL86:

So I haven'- I'm pretty- I'm a one fandom kind of gal right, so I haven’t ventured outside of the fandom. But in saying that, I have had, you know, folks approached me and go, hey, would you mind? You know, here's my fic, do you mind reading it?

LENA:

Really?

GORILLAZGAL86:

And oh, what a treat. There's so much good stories out there that realistically I can't read them all. So it's always a treat when somebody goes, I really enjoy what you do. Here, do you mind doing mine? So it didn’t happened loads, but happened enough that, you know, you get a bit of a boost from it and just that people want to engage in podfic and are interested in it. I think it is really exciting. And to be, you know, to be approached as lovely as well.

LENA:

Yeah I know, I believe it. That's actually really interesting. I don't know that was a thing that happened very often. To be fair, I've only been doing it for a very short time too. But yeah, it's a good time for podfic. I think the community is growing a lot and people who aren't in the community, just in fandom in general, are more aware, I think, lately that it exists.

GORILLAZGAL86:

Absolutely.

LENA:

Mm hmm. So about, more on the topic of Crown of Thorns, did you find the story before the project or like, had you read the fic?

GORILLAZGAL86:

No, I hadn't. So I again, I was approached for the project, so it wasn't something that was on my radar rather initially, I will admit I haven't gotten through it yet. I'm kind of reading as I go along because it's obviously very big fic, but you know it's been, you know, so it wasn't on my radar initially. I think I'd come across it when you're searching for fics. But I think sometimes you have to, you don’t walk into seventy five chapters just willy nilly. You know, you need to be ready for that. But no, I've been enjoying reading it as I went along. And so it's lovely. Everything is kind of fresh and new to me and it's been fun working on it while kind of seeing where the characters are going at the same time.

LENA:

Mm hmm. So what was the experience like being approached about it? I imagine it was Literarion, when just putting together a team?

GORILLAZGAL86:

Yes, that's right. Now, I just got a Tumblr and I was quite flattered. As I said, I'm new to this. I've been incredibly humbled by the response I've gotten from just people who have listened and all that. And have they had you know, Literarion would have been a name I was familiar with in the Good Omens fandom for podfics. And it was incredibly flattering and exciting that it was like, oh, you know, I didn't know that these kind of projects could exist. So it was very exciting that it was like, no, we're going to do auditions. And it's been a very proper job ever since. But no, to be approached was incredibly flattering and quite humbling.

LENA:

Mm hmm. And when they were doing auditions, what characters did you think, oh, I could play this, I could really play this character. What was it like?

GORILLAZGAL86:

So this was a bit cheeky. When I went for the audition I fancied my chances at narrator and Aziraphale, were the two that I had kind of pegged. I think I was doing _Pray For Us Icarus_ at the time that I got approached, so I knew I had the kind of stamina for something a bit longer. So it was like- I felt going big. Sophia, to be honest, wasn't even one that- I think Rafael was maybe my third choice. So I hadn't clocked Sophia, but goodness, it couldn't have turned out any better. She's been so fun to portray and what a, you know, what a wonderful character. So, no, I'm very pleased to have had it work out the way it did.

LENA:

Right. You because you hadn't read the story beforehand, ao when you got the role for Sophia, did you already know who she was?

GORILLAZGAL86:

No, I have to be honest, I didn't know, as I said, I'd started to get into the chapters, but I don't think I had gotten far enough along for Sophia by the time the auditions were announced.

LENA:

And now that we're way past halfway through the project, what do you find your character is like? Can you describe her from your perspective?

GORILLAZGAL86:

So I've heard a reference device and again, because I'm still reading along that initially may have been lost on me, but she's very intelligent. I think, funnily enough, I have the same degrees as Sophia. I also have a political science and international studies nexus, which was quite cool, and I connected with that quite a bit. But she's a fascinating character. I don't think her sisters have maybe taken after their mom in quite the same way that she has. And then, of course, to be the wife of the Antichrist is fascinating as well. But I think she's very considered, very sweet. And I think she's got a good, good heart, maybe enjoys a drink, which I can appreciate as well. So there's a bit of fun in her as well. And just a great resilience. I think she goes through quite a tough chapter with Crowley and just to see how forgiving she is and how willing she is to accept what his position was even in what was probably quite a low moment for her is fascinating in that, you know, I've got a lot of respect for her as a character. She's been really interesting to get to know.

LENA:

Yeah. Sort of roll with the punches sometimes, too, which is something you need if you're going to be friends with this bunch.

GORILLAZGAL86:

Absolutely. She gets told off by Crowley a couple times. He can be a bit sharp with her. And you're like, oh, OK. And she just- water off a duck's back. Doesn't bother her.

LENA:

So do you listen to the final chapters after all of the VAs have been added?

GORILLAZGAL86:

Yes, so once the chapters are posted, I would go through and have a listen.

LENA:

How are you finding them?

GORILLAZGAL86

Fantastic, it's such an interesting project in that you work kind of in isolation as a voice actor, so I know what I'm doing and I know obviously the scenes very well that I'm in. But then to kind of hear how the both the actors that you share a scene with, how they respond, even though you haven't been able to kind of act off each other, is always really interesting. And I'm just boggled that we are continuously hitting the mark. And then in the characters that you don't regularly have a scene with as well, just to kind of see what they're up to and how those voice actors are taking in. And, you know, it's just- the range is just incredible in this cast.

LENA:

True, true, true. So are you reading- because I imagine, I don't know how everybody does this, but are you reading the entire chapter when you record your lines or do you wait until the chapter is out to read along as you play the audio? How do you read them?

GORILLAZGAL86:

So I would do- as I'm getting ready to record, I'd have a quick- so I usually go into the chapters reasonably blind, I have to admit, but we do it. So getting ready to record would have a scan through the chapter maybe a couple of days before, I think just to make sure that I'm scheduling enough time to do the lines that I need to record, but then also to get an idea of what the context is for each one. And then after that, so I've had a quick scan through the chapter usually, and then whenever it comes out, really dive into it properly with the podfic and let it tell the story.

LENA:

Fair enough. So one of the questions that I like to ask almost everyone that comes through the interviews is what is one thing about your character that you really identify with? You've mentioned that you have similar degrees, but is there anything else that you sort of go, yeah, that's something I do, too?

GORILLAZGAL86:

Let's see, um. Good question. I think the roll with the punches, as you said, you know, I think I think personality wise, I can relate to her quite a bit in that, you know, again, that resilience, just the ability to kind of bounce back and just go with the flow of things, even when it's a bit weird. It's not something that- she's not easily shaken and not easily pushed back, which is quite fun and something I would suppose I would connect with just that kind of that strength. I would hope I'm reasonably resilient. But yeah, no, her- And I think, as I said, she's not afraid to let her hair down either, which is quite fun. And again, something that- we all enjoy a good time. And so, you know, and I think just that intelligence and able to sort of bounce off of, you know, she handles being quite close with celestial beings and knowing that I think with just a real easiness, which is not like me at all. But, you know, it's quite cool.

LENA:

It is. It is. It's admirable and a memorable part of her character. And for a final question that I always ask is, what's something you've learned during this project, could be about the process of recording about yourself, about the characters, anything?

GORILLAZGAL86:

So something that I've learned. I think that I can actually, you know, the one thing that's kind of surprised me on a recording point of view has been to be able to maintain a character voice. I don't do a whole lot of vocal gymnastics, even when I'm reading a fic by myself and I'm a narrator, Crowley, Aziraphale, and so on. You know, tone in that will vary. But I think being able to come back to Sophea each and every time and get her voice is always really exciting. It's like, oh, I've got some consistency here. That's pretty cool.

LENA:

Do you listen to your past recordings to get back into her voice or do you just really have her down?

GORILLAZGAL86:

I think she's just there as soon as it starts, you know, she just arrives, I'm- even with the other things, I kind of listen once it's finished and then I can't listen again. You know, it's almost like. Right. I’ve parked and put that away, even though I kind of did- got into the podficcing like, oh, now I can listen to this on my commute. I'm like, I can't listen to myself again. So, no, it's- she just- she has- headphones are on, Crown of thorns is open on the screen and Sophia pops out.

LENA:

There she is.

GORILLAZGAL86:

She's ready to go.

LENA:

Awesome. So to finish, I have a question from one of our listeners. They ask on Instagram, tired_but_still_kicking, with underscores between words, asked if- for your favorite parts of the Good Omens fandom.

GORILLAZGAL86:

My favorite parts. Oh, goodness. All of it, obviously, you know, Crowley and Aziraphale are the heart of everything that I'm into as far as Good Omens goes. But I suppose more broadly, I'm just really drawn to the love story. I think, you know, my other half, my husband who does this with me, we've been together for 14 years this year and I think we're quite young and to have been together that long. And I think there was something that really connected with me about Crowley and Aziraphale in terms of, you know, just that old marriedness and that kind of ongoing affection and being able to kind of take the piss out of each other. But still, you know, that that core heart of love, I think, is what keeps me here. But beyond that, just the incredible, incredible amount of talent. The artists are unreal, you know, fic authors are coming up with some absolutely incredible in-depth stories, the one we're recording here, everybody in the podfic community who's excited to to read out words and to share these stories with as many people as they can. Love a bit of Tumblr, Twitter, but no, it's just been the most amazing ride. You know, it's been such a fun fandom to be a part of. Everybody is so friendly. You know, I've been able to approach authors and they're like, yeah, let's get really excited about this, again of- being able to write with somebody else, which is a fun experience. And it's just so enriching. It's just been an incredible community. And especially in these times where I don't leave the house that much these days and to be able to connect with people is just the best fun.

LENA:

I'm very glad you found it so welcoming. Well, thank you for talking with us, Mags. And tell us, where can people find you online?

GORILLAZGAL86:

You can find me pretty much anywhere good podfics are found. I'm on Tumblr and AO3, but you can also find me on SoundCloud, Spotify and Google Podcasts, all that good stuff.

LENA:

And the username?

GORILLAZGAL86:

Oh, of course, GorillazGal86.

LENA:

All right, GorillazGal86 all across.

GORILLAZGAL86:

Everywhere.

LENA:

Yeah, good. Thank you very much.

GORILLAZGAL86:

Thank you.

LENA:

So this was all we had for today. Next time we'll be talking to UnholyCrowley, the voice of Mandy and our head editor, so keep your ears ready for that.

OUTRO MUSIC


	6. Interview with UnholyCrowley

**Interview with UnholyCrowley**

We are halfway through the mammoth project that is Crown of Thorns Podrama, and we've got some extra content for you all!  
Along our way, we have managed to gather an amazing team of voice actors, editors, artists, musicians, and organizers.  
This is the start of a series of interviews with the team about their experience and involvement with the Crown of Thorns Podrama.  
We're continuing our interviews with UnholyCrowley (Rhi), who is Head Editor and Voice Actress for the CoT project, contributing her voice to the original character Amanda ‘Mandy’ Tomlin.  
She has been in fandoms all her life and has been a fan of Good Omens for as long as she can remember, growing up in a world created by Terry Pratchett.  
Growing up, audiobooks were a staple, so when she heard about Podfics and the CoT Pod’rama project, she knew she had to jump on board.

Love,  
The CoT Pod'rama Team

Listen - [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/6NfL9Yg1bI0TzsCQugLPET) / [Anchor](https://anchor.fm/crown-of-thorns-podrama/episodes/Interview-with-UnholyCrowley-ei7b3v)  
Listen and Download - [Archive.org](https://archive.org/details/unholy-crowley-interview)

**Where to Find UnholyCrowley  
** [AO3](https://archiveofourown.org/users/UnholyCrowley) / [Tumblr](https://unholy-crowley.tumblr.com) / [Twitter](https://twitter.com/UnholySnakeBoi)

**Interview with UnholyCrowley Team**  
Hosted By - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Composer - [ Nuitarie](https://soundcloud.com/nuitarie) Chapter Artist - [CompassRose](https://outlikethat.tumblr.com/)  
Interview Editor - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Head Editor - [UnholyCrowley](https://archiveofourown.org/users/UnholyCrowley) Transcripts By - [AJfanfic](https://archiveofourown.org/users/ajfanfic)

Length - 41:57 minutes

Question Time Stamps

00:45 Introduction: Tell us a bit about yourself, where are you from, what do you do aside from fandom?  
01:17 How did you first land in fandom?  
02:45 Did you ever write fics or make art?  
03:56 Were you in the Good Omens fandom at that time?  
05:44 When did you first find CoT the fanfic?  
07:19 How did you find podfic?  
09:24 Have you done any acting or voice acting before?  
10:09 Have you joined the podfic community?  
11:03 Are you multifandom?  
11:52 Can you describe Mandy from your perspective?  
14:16 Question from tenner54: Is there anything about Crowley that makes you want to hug and comfort him, and can you narrow it down to three things?  
16:54 Did you audition for a particular character?  
18:19 What was it like when you got Mandy after auditioning?  
19:09 What do you like the most and the least about your work as a voice actress?  
21:34 Could you describe what you do as Head Editor?  
24:44 What platforms do you post to?  
25:02 Were you present when it was decided what platforms CoT would be posted to?  
28:38 What is the thing best and worst thing about editing?  
32:13 What does compressing and normalizing do?  
35:01 How did you end up working with the social media team?  
36:32 How are you finding the instagram work you're doing?  
37:36 What is one thing about Mandy that you identify with?  
39:03 What is something you've learned in this project?  
40:52 Where can people find you online?

Transcript

INTRO MUSIC

LENA:

Hello, everyone, and welcome to our cast and crew Q&A. My name is Lena, and today I have for you an interview with UnholyCrowley. UnholyCrowley, or Rhi, is the head editor and voice actress for the Crown of Thorns project, contributing her voice to the original character, Amanda “Mandy” Tomlin and Harriet. She has been in fandom all her life and has been a fan of Good Omens for as long as she can remember, growing up in a world created by Terry Pratchett. Growing up, audiobooks were a staple. So when she heard about podfics and the Crown of Thorns Pod’rama project, she knew she had to jump on board. Rhi, it's an honour to have you with us today. Tell us a bit about yourself before we start. Where are you from? What did you do aside from fandom?

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

Well, thank you for having me. Yes. So I'm originally from Scotland. That's why I really love that I got to play Mandy. I can kind of give that little bit of an accent to her. But I'm living in Western Australia just now. Outside of fandom, I'm a pastry chef and I work as a chef at a daycare and kindy and cook for lots of little grabby little children.

LENA:

Mm hmm. And how did you first land in fandom?

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

I landed in it probably when I was about 12 or 13. I originally started in- Oh Goodness, the My Chemical Romance fandom and started reading- I was really into my Chemical Romance when I was younger. My older sister, she's 11 years older than me, and she was really into their music and she listened to a lot of their stuff when I was really little. So I was kind of brought up with that kind of music and all of their different albums and things like that. So I was really exposed to that fandom first and started reading fanfictions and seeing art done by people. And it was really interesting to me, something that people could create expressively and just create everything they wanted. And it was, it was a really big fandom at the time when I was about 12 or 13. And that really got me interested in creative writing and stories and art in general when I was, you know, everybody kind of struggles at that age. And that's it was a good kind of escape for me. And jumping into fandoms, it was- it was mostly My Chemical Romance and then it kind of transitioned into Sherlock Holmes and some other little ones that I kind of wasn't so involved in. But I was aware of fanfictions and art and things like that. And then it slowly progressed into good omens when Good started to lift off a little bit.

LENA:

And did you ever write fics or make art yourself?

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

Yes, I did. I- I tried my hand at art. I'm not really much of an artist. I have something that kind of just blocks my brain creatively. So, I tried writing fics for a long time. I loved creative writing, but I just really struggled to do it. I had originally started writing and that was my main thing that I did under my first main account, which was UnholyFrank, which is from the My Chemical Romance fandom. And that's where I started. And again, it was something that I really- I struggled to creative write, I struggle to see things creatively. So it was something that I really wanted to do, but I just couldn't get my head around it. So I decided to kind of pull myself back a little bit and mostly just watch what other people were doing and read other fictions and enjoy other people's art. But it was really good to be part of that fandom community for a little while and see other people who were striving and people who were getting out there and people who were being really noticed. And it was really quite a nice community to be a part of.

LENA:

Mm hmm. And were you in Good Omens fandom at that time?

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

No, I wasn't. I wasn't so much aware of the Good Omens fandom. I was aware of Good Omens at that point because I was brought up in a household very much evolving around books. And if it was books, mostly it was Terry Pratchett books. And I had Good Omens in my house and I knew what Good Omens was. And my parents had kind of told me the story and that sort of thing. But I was never aware of kind of more than two fandoms going on at once. Yeah.

LENA:

All right, and then when did you first start getting more into the Good Omens fandom then?

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

It was maybe a couple of years ago now, just before the show started? But again, it was merely from a visual standing and watching standpoint. It wasn't from being involved, so much. Like, I saw that there were some fics up there that I didn't really necessarily think that it was such a big thing. Obviously, I was so blind to seeing things behind the curtain. It got so much bigger after the TV show hit. But when I saw that there was- where there was steps taken to having a TV show on Amazon, it was really quite exciting for somebody who loved the story and loved the artistic style of the story. And hoping to see that come out in a TV show really got me quite excited. So I kind of got my fandom- inner fandom fire kind of lighted, lit again, so to speak. It kind of got me into looking for a fandom to see if there was other people who enjoyed it as much as I did growing up.

LENA:

Mm hmm. And was that when you first found Crown of Thorns or were you not aware of it before the project?

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

I had heard of it. I hadn't read so much of it because I struggle to read. So when I see things that are more than one chapter or they seem quite big, I get a little bit overwhelmed. So that's why I love audiobooks in general, because I did grow up struggling to read. My parents got me a lot of audiobooks that- Terry Pratchett had a lot of his books turned into audio books so I would listen to them on my little iPod when I was younger and growing up. And it was something that- the charismatic narrators always really intrigued me and helped me not feel so isolated by the fact that I did struggle to read. But when I saw Crown of Thorns, I knew that it was much loved because I'd seen the name and Iris's name pop up in so many places. But I felt a little bit overwhelmed by the- such a big task of it. So when I heard, late last year, when there was an opportunity to make an audio version of Crown of Thorns, I'd seen that name pop up so many times. I was so interested in doing a project like this that when I saw it, I was like, I have to be involved with this, somehow. I have to try and get in on it somehow because this was something I wanted to to get into and something I wanted to read and something I wanted to have a look into for a long time.

LENA:

Right. And then how did you find podfic? Because I imagine you found it before Crown of Thorns.

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

I hadn't actually. I think when My Chemical Romance fandom didn't have any podfic, the Sherlock fandom I was in, but I wasn’t in it very deeply at the time. So what I was seeing was mostly fic and art. I didn't see so many podfics, even though I know now that there's hundreds of them out there. I hadn't actually seen any podfics until I jumped into the Good Omens fandom. And I was kind of a little bit brought back that I was kind of like, oh, you can do audiobooks, but not for a book. That actually sounds really cool, but that sounds like something I would be interested in listening to somebody reading fictions, because in that sense, where I did struggle to read the longer fics, it's- it lends something to people who do struggle and it gives them an opportunity to enjoy something that otherwise they would have just scrolled past because they felt too intimidated.

LENA:

Mm hmm. And do you remember how you actually found it the moment you went, oh, this is a podfic?

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

I don't actually remember whose it was. I think I had clicked on a link to a fic, but it didn't say podfic on it. So I had clicked it going this kind of sounds interesting. And then straight away it started playing. And I at first I was a little bit brought back. I was like, what is this music? This music is playing. But it's- I was trying to figure out where on my phone the music was coming from. But it wasn't until I clicked off the safari that it stopped playing. I was like, wait a minute, this is- this is something and it's reading it to me.

LENA:

Is this an ad?

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

Yeah, basically I thought it was to begin with and once I started listening to it, I was like, this actually is so much easier for me and so much easier to comprehend for, well, people like me anyway.

LENA:

Well, no, for sure. Have you yourself done any acting or voice acting?

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

I did try. I mean, in high school, everybody tries a little bit of theater. It's something I always wanted to do. And I moved to Australia kind of when I started trying that, and it kind of shook my confidence a little. New people, new friends, kind of didn't really want to outshine the light. But it was something I've always kind of wanted to do a little bit, was try my act at a voice acting, so to speak. But yeah, something I've never really done before would be something I was always kind of interested in. So when I heard about doing this, it was something I really wanted to jump on board with, something I really wanted to try out.

LENA:

Right, fair enough. And have you since joined the podfic community? Do you think you've interacted a lot with them?

UNHOLYCROWLEY

Well, Crown of Thorns is my first jump into that. It's been something I really wanted to get in, on board with since joining the Crown of Thorns kind of community and project. But oh boy, this takes up so much of my time. I have a little, little book of notes and things that I want to try out. But until the projects over, they're just going to have to wait at the moment because there's a lot on my plate for this project. So, unfortunately, that's taking up most of my time.

LENA:

Right. You have a lot of roles.

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

Yeah.

LENA:

And we're going to talk about everything you do in a minute. But just to keep going about the podfic community for a moment, have you- because the podfic community in many ways is very multifandom. At least I find that it is. Do you find that you are too multifandom or are you super focused on Good Omens right now?

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

Oh, no, definitely multifandom. I've seen a lot of people kind of crossing those bridges. And it does look very interesting that people aren't stuck in just the one box and they aren't just labeled as podfics for one fandom. And I do think sometimes that can be, you know, each to their own devices and things like that. But it would be something if I enjoy a fic, I might consider podficcing it. Or if, you know, somebody wants it done, then they say that they've got a blanket permission, then go ahead. That's sort of my idea on it anyway, whether it'll happen or not is another thing.

LENA:

Well, I'm sure you’ll get time to experiment and find out what you're like.

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

For sure.

LENA:

Going a bit more into your roles in the project. You are the voice actress for Mandy. Tell us what is it like? Can you describe Mandy from your perspective?

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

Oh my goodness, she is a wrecking ball. I love her so much. She has so much growth in this story as a whole. You first see her and she's really quite young. She's still a teenager. She's a waitress. And, you know, in your first couple of chapters, you don't think so much of her. She's just kind of your waitress at your local cafe. But just hopefully, you know, desperately in love with Crowley. But you see her grow as a person and you see her form these friendships and, you know, Aziraphale isn't too keen on her to begin with because she has these lovey-dovey eyes for Crowley, but he slowly warms up to her. And it's you know, you see the friendships that she makes and she builds, but she also has this character arc that you don't see coming and you don't really expect it from- a kind of fiction, like a fandom fiction, you don't really expect this powerhouse of a character arc that she gets and it's really quite empowering. She has a lot of scenes where she's really confused and she's really upset and she gets hurt that she's been lied to or she gets upset because she's not sure what to believe. She was raised Catholic and she figures out that Crowley and Aziraphale are an angel and a demon and she gets possessed by a demon and she does not know what to do with herself. It's just- and it was really fun recording those lines because it gives you a chance to express stuff that you didn't know you had in you. I didn't know I could be that emotionally attached to a character. But yeah, acting those lines out where she's so hard, hard on herself, but she just wants to be loved and she wants to know that there's other people around her who love her for her. And it's really quite empowering to be able to say those lines and for it to come across like it fits that. That's been something I really enjoyed about voice acting Mandy.

LENA:

Yeah, yeah, she definitely has a lot of depth and a related note, and although this could be also because of your username, UnholyCrowley, we had a question on Tumblr from Tenner54 that said, is there anything in Crown of Thorns about Crowley that makes you want to hug him and comfort him? And if you could narrow it down to three things, what would they be?

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

Oh, my goodness. Mandy and I both love Crowley very much. She always wants to hug him, I always want to hug him. It's a very similar feeling we have there. But he's such a softie, you know, he's an- especially in the Crown of Thorns universe. It gets explored a little bit more. You know, he's a lover. He's passionate about everything, but he kind of sets his mind too, you know, when he wants to cook, he cooks with like, he cooks with his heart and all that sort of stuff. When he wants to get something done, he really puts his heart into trying to get it done for the people that he cares about, and he is really emotionally invested in everybody, and that's that's the second thing, is he puts everybody first before himself. And that happens in the book and in the TV shows and things like that. But it's- you really see it more in-depth in Crown of Thorns where AJ has written more in-depth about the fact that he really doesn't care so much about himself. He’d rather have other people around him happy before himself. And I think the third thing would be probably he's so quick to empathy, you see it when Sophia's upset and you see him when- when Pippa is struggling with Harold. He's so quick to prove that he can be vulnerable and he can, you know, he can prove to the other people around him that he's not just what he makes out to be, he's got a hard shell. He does have that softie kind of, you know, human- human sense. He's gone native. He's got that human empathy inside of him. And he's so- he just wants to make sure that everyone around him is OK and that's- it's very lovable, it's lovable in a character.

LENA:

Fair enough.

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

Great question, though.

LENA:

So if you could narrow it down to three things, what do you think it would be?

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

Oh, the fact that he loves everybody. He does have some suspicions, but he loves everybody. He's gone native, he doesn't like to admit it, but he has and probably his selflessness. He doesn't care about himself.

LENA:

For sure. Well, then going back to Mandy, you said you- from the first moment you heard about the project for Crown of Thorns pod’rama, you wanted to be part of it. Did you audition for a character? A particular character?

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

I did, and I think Mandy was one of them. I read bits- well, we all had kind of little excerpts of scripts to read for the auditions and you could read other bits if you wanted. And I had read through some of the parts of the chapters that contained those excerpts so that I could get a little bit of an extra feel for what was kind of going on in those excerpts so that I could kind of drag the feeling from there and what see what happens and see different ways to record them, but I think Mandy was definitely on my list of characters to audition for just because she's Scottish. And I knew at least there's a little twang of an accent there. Not a lot of people get it, but there's a twang of an accent. And especially when- when I get upset or when I get angry, that accent comes out. And I think sometimes you hear a little bit more of it in Mandy than there is in me. And that's been quite funny to listen to in recordings is a little bit more of my Scottish accent coming out the more aggressive she gets or the more upset she gets.

LENA:

Yeah, yeah. She was very emotional in some scenes. That's really cool, and then when you got back word that you had gotten Mandy, I imagine you weren't that surprised. You were like, oh, well, this is one of the characters that I auditioned for.

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

Yeah, it was actually it was surprising because it was something that I put her down as a character that I wanted to audition for, but then when I got it back, I was like, oh, that's cool. They actually thought that I could do her justice. And, you know, Mandy didn't have any lines in the excerpts of any of the audition scenes. So I was just hoping that they'd hear my voice and hope that somebody went 'well, that kind of fits for Mandy. That kind of works really well. She can- she can be a Mandy,' you know, that sort of thing. But when I saw it, I was a little bit relieved because, my God, my accents for anything else other than Scottish and Australian are probably horrific.

LENA:

Awesome. And so now that we've been doing this for a little while, what do you think you like the most and the least about your work as a voice actress?

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

Oh, my goodness, it's so fun reading a script and seeing what you can do with it without thinking about it. You- I mean, when you read a script, do you see the words and you understand the words. I mean, somebody who struggles reading, sometimes it takes a little bit longer than the normal, especially with her, with her dialogue. You know, her really long pieces of dialogue. But yeah, they're- it's interesting seeing the words and then going, OK, so, I could take it like this and it could be a kind of sarcastic route or I could take it like this and it could be slightly more offensive, or I could take it like this and it would be perceived in a totally different limelight to doing it this way. And I think playing around with that is quite fun to do. Probably the least favorite would be, oh, goodness, having a conversation with somebody and not knowing how that voice actor is going to have their side of the conversation. Because when when you see this dialogue between, like, Mandy has a lot of conversations with Crowley, for example, is it's gotten to that point now where I can kind of guess how CompassRose is going to voice Crowley, but you're never a 100 percent sure of how they're going to say they're line or if they're going to do a different jab on it than you are if they're going to take it slightly more, like I said, sarcastic or slightly more emotional than you are. You could take it one way and they could take it another way and it just wouldn't mesh in editing. But I suppose that's also the fun of it as well, is trying to figure out a middle ground between two characters. And, you know, that's part of the fun of it. But it's also a little bit stressful when you come to those emotional conversations where you're like, oh, I need to get this right. I don't want to make the editor's job hard.

LENA:

Fair enough, fair enough. For the editing process does give some leeway to rerecord if we needed to, but I imagine and I know that it's a very- it's complicated to get it right the first time, just so you don't have to, you know, get yourself back in the same emotional state that you were just to rerecord one line.

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

Oh, yeah. Yeah, for sure.

LENA:

Yeah. Talking about editing, let's move a little bit into that, because you are Head Editor, could you describe a little bit what it is you do as head editor?

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

Yes. So I'm not just Head Editor. I'm a chapter editor as well. I've got a lot of chapters where I'm a chapter editor for that. So we take the narration done by Podfixx, which, oh, my goodness, her mammoth task of narrating the absolutely entire project dialogue and all is crazy. And then we take in the voice actors, the voice actors do their lines and we take Podfixx’s line or version of that line and then we sub in the voice actors line and we hope that it fits. Then we edit it around there. We take the little breaths and sometimes you hear some cuts and sometimes there's things that you can tweak to make it sound crystal clear. So that's up to the chapter editor. And then after the chapter editor has finished and added music and intros and outros and they send it to me and I'm kind of that cross between the chapter editor and the beta. I'm that middle step where- basically, it's for consistency, I'm there to do a listen to the edit of the chapter over again to make sure that there is no rogue breaths or clicks or cuts or a chapter editor might have missed a line that a VA has recorded and they just haven't put it in. So I'm kind of that beta before beta, but also in an editing aspect so I can clean some things up. If I think a pause is too long, I will shorten it. If I think a pauses too short, I'll extend it, that sort of thing. I make sure that all the volumes are kind of roughly the same, because obviously we've got voice actors from everywhere around the world, all different equipment. So I try and make the voices sound similar to kind of being recorded together as possible. That’s something that I really actually love doing. It takes its time. But to say that we've got a team of, well, 20, 30 voice actors and to make them sound pretty similar in recording is magic. But yeah, so we we take them together and I do a kind of final skim over, do all the little edits that I think it needs, and then I compress, normalize, make sure everything is ready to go for exporting it. Then I export it into all the- the files that we need it to. And then I make all of our posting drafts and make sure it's on all of our servers ready for the other people who do posting on their ends. And then I post- well with you on social media and all of our AO3 and Spotify and Anchor things on there as well. So very hands on at that last stage after beta has said it's got all clear.

LENA:

Yeah, pretty much so. Yeah. You pretty much do all of the posting except maybe, what is it, Archive that Compass does?

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

Yep. Archive is done by Compass and SoundCloud is done by Podfixx. Other than that I do the posting. Yeah.

LENA:

Mm hmm. And how- were you, were you present when it was decided what platforms the audio was going to be uploaded to?

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

I think, well, obviously from the beginning, AO3 was a big thing. Obviously, we wanted to do- we just needed to figure out how to get an MP3 of some sort in there. And Podfixx had decided that instead of the Crown of Thorns having to pay for their own SoundCloud subscription because it does cost a lot of money, Podfixx already pays for her own. So she had graciously lent us her account. Obviously, she would put everything up and have it under a Crown of Thorns playlist and a Crown of Thorns album that she would just post all of the chapters to. So she's graciously done that. And oh my God, it's another lifesaver because a lot of her fans from her podfics fixed that she's been doing for almost five years now have come over just to, well, to listen to her and to listen to this project that she's been a really big part of narrating. So a lot of her fans are used to listening on SoundCloud. So having that platform as one of our main ones was very, very helpful to us. I had never worked on Anchor before, but I knew that Anchor automatically uploaded to SoundCloud (meant Spotify) and Apple podcasts and Google podcasts and things like that. So it was something I was happy to learn about and it's been quite a learning curve. There was one point when Anchor took down every single one of our chapters and we lost everything that was so crazy. We lost, I think we must have been up in the mid 20s when we lost everything.

LENA:

Yeah, I remember.

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

And I was a little bit stressful, but Archive.org was, yeah, that was a very good idea to have it somewhere that we could download it from and not have it be something like a Google Drive or like a file that needed to be in a different server. That was a very smart idea and I really like that idea. And going forward, it's an idea that I hope more other people use because it's very underrated. I think I don't normally see a lot of Archive.org links and it's just- it's a very good idea to host stuff I think.

LENA:

I think so. Yeah. I haven't tried it myself because there is this kind of feeling, that oh, it's very- it feels kind of official. I don't know if it's just me maybe, but the name sounds kind of official.

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

No, I definitely see what you mean.

LENA:

When I first started making podfic, I was like, oh well I don't know if I'm going to keep this up. I don't know if it’s going to be any good. But, yeah, it's- I know that a lot of- especially people who have been in the podfic community for a long time, they advocate for using Archive or any kind of archive that stores audio because Archive of Our Own doesn't actually store the audio.

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

No, it doesn't. I see a lot of links to like Google drives and I'm always like, oh, I clear up my Google Drive like every week. I would be so scared if I deleted something and then the MP3 was just missing from a post. Oh, I wouldn't want to ever do that.

LENA:

No, for sure it's already- I've had people comment like, hey, just so you know, there's one link that isn't working and I'd be like Google Drive, why do you hate all of us?

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

Yeah.

LENA:

And so going back a little to editing, what would you say, much like voice acting, what would you say is your most and least favorite thing about your work as Head Editor or chapter editor?

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

My most favorite is seeing- and it's very related to being that voice actor, is seeing what the actors do with their lines. Some people have so much fun and give you so many takes. Izzy, who is our amazing Uriel, she can sometimes have- recently she had one word in the chapter and she gave me seven takes and she had so much fun with this one word. You could tell how much fun that she had in it. And there was bloopers to that one word as well. And oh my God, just seeing the fun that the voice actors have sometimes when they give you multiple takes, especially when their characters are those flamboyant characters like Raphael and Uriel are and they're very charismatic characters. So they can get away with kind of being a little bit snarky and having different attitudes and saying things in different ways. And sometimes they fit so well, even if that's not really what you get from the text, sometimes those little kind of snarky, sassy lines fit really well. And it's just so much fun to watch the voice actors having fun on such a huge project, you know, day in day out where this is going to take us a year. I mean, this is- we've already crossed the six month line, you know, so seeing that everybody's still having fun and seeing that everybody is still enjoying themselves after six, seven months is really such a joy to watch.

LENA:

Yeah, definitely.

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

I don’t really know if I have a least favorite. I think it’s not really a least favorite, I really think that it’s just I edit every single chapter. Every single thing that comes past and gets posted as Crown of Thorns I see to some extent. I see and edit, whether it’s a last head edit and everything is clear and all I have to do is compress, normalize, export into all the files, like I have put my foot into every single bucket, so to speak. So I’m very stretched thin, but I absolutely love it and I wouldn’t have it any other way. I think there’s some days where sometimes you think you’ve taken on more than you can handle, but at the end of the day it all gets done and there’s a big team of helpers and there’s a big team of people who are willing to put their hand up and say hey, if you need some help, throw it my way. And that’s very amazing to watch the community spirit of this when somebody is struggling, there’s always somebody who’s willing to say if you need a hand, I’ll do my best to help you. Even if they don’t know what they’re doing, they just say give me some instructions and I’ll give it my best shot. And that’s been amazing to watch flourish from a lot of people who were a little intimidated from jumping in on the editing aspect. There’s a lot of people who just wanted to do art or just wanted to voice acting and didn’t want to edit, but it’s really been quite cool to see people set up to the plate, and try new things, and it’s been really cool to watch the whole team grow as, well, as a team. You know, we’ve taken some really big strides into trying some new things and it’s been all for the better.

LENA:

Yeah, for sure. Could you tell me a bit about the thing you do about normalizing and all of that? Because that’s the one part of podficcing that I’ve never gotten to do or understand or anything.

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

Yeah. So, once everything is similar in audio and you’re happy with the way everything is edited, I compress everything so that everything, it kind of gets a bit louder when you compress, but compressing it kind of puts everything into a format where there’s- it’s clearer. Compressing clears everything up on an audio format. And then normalizing kind of takes all of those- because everything gets amplified to make it louder when you compress things, normalizing kind of takes all of those voice actor tracks- because when we edit, we put all the voice actor tracks onto the narrator track. We don’t have 21 different tracks running. We have the narration, a tag one, so we know when everyone is speaking, and then we have the music. So all the music media in there. So we have three tracks, and I only ever compress and normalize the narration track. I don’t touch the music track because I don’t want to mess it up just in case something happens. I just leave it the way it is, I don’t want to touch it. But the narration track with all the voice actors once it’s all subbed in, when it compresses everything gets louder but it also tweaks everything slightly differently depending on where the audio came from, so normalizing does this thing where it kind of puts everything on a similar audio level unless it is noticeably different from the others. That’s why if there is something in a chapter where people are whispering to each other or they’re having a very quiet conversation, or they’re saying something under their breath, I will always, after it’s normalized, because normalizing puts everything back to a similar sort of volume, I will go back and check those timestamps that I wrote down for those pieces and make sure that they’re not too loud or not too quiet, and that they still fit in with the overall volume. But the compression and normalization tries to make everything clearer without being too loud. So that normalizing kind of contradicts the compression a bit but the compression is there for clarity, and the normalization is for putting the volume back to a normal level, back to where, kind of, it’s all similar.

LENA:

Right.

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

I hope that made some sense.

LENA:

No, yeah, I have to look into that more. Because something I’ve just never touched on with my own podfics. Moving on to another, yet another thing that you do for the project. How did you end up working with the social media team?

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

I think it was at the point in the beginning where I didn’t think I had my feet in enough buckets and I wanted to lend my hand out. There were a few people doing social media posts and I was kind of in the mindset of, well, I’m up and doing things and posting at those times anyway, and I kind of know my way around instagram, so I might as well help out with the Instagram posts. Rather than just leaving it to one person. It’s a bit hard sometimes, mentally, when everything is left to one person. And if they forget, I know they feel really upset about it, so it’s sometimes better to have a team from the get go just so if someone forgets there’s someone else to help you along the way and go: it’s okay, it’s alright, I got it, don’t worry about it. We’ll set an alarm next time. Because, God, that’s happened.

LENA:

Yeah, for sure. I know that I have to put on alarms like all the time and sometimes, some days I have the alarm at the same hour every day and I look at my alarm and it’s like, today is like, Tuesday, why do I have an alarm? And it’s like, left over from the other week when I did need an alarm on Tuesday.

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

Yes

LENA:

So it’s a bit of a- it’s a struggle. And are you having fun with the Instagram? Do you think you’ve managed to put your mark into it, so to speak?

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

I’d like to say so. I’m not a graphic designer by any means, I’m not on the level of CompassRose and all of our other graphic designers and artists out there. I’d love to be, but I’m nowhere near it. So having the background that CompassRose created for our stories on Instagram and changing it up every week, kind of asking a question here and there, even if nobody replies, oh my goodness, it’s just so much fun to make a new story every time we go to post a chapter. Here’s the countdown, 24 hours, tell us what you think or, you know, when we were going through this pandemic it was stay at home, thank you for supporting us, you know, everybody be safe. You know? And it was just those little things, it was quite fun to just tweak it and see if anybody noticed.

LENA:

Well, I’m glad you’re having fun with that then.

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

Absolutely.

LENA:

Let’s move into final questions. So, as a voice actress, what is one thing about Mandy that you identify with?

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

She’s so emotional. She’s strong willed, and I love her. She’s very bullheaded, and I am as well. No, she’s very firm on her stance about things, and she really likes to get her point across. When she was really, really angry when Crowley left Sophia on the side of the road, oh my God, I felt for her. When she just turned up at the door and slapped him across the face I’m like, girl, I would have done the same damn thing. Her emotional state is definitely, like, oh, yeah, that’s totally me. I wouldn’t ever do it to somebody, but I’d feel the rage of Mandy inside me. Definitely. She’s such a fun character to voice act, and to explore her character growth, oh my God, it’s been so amazing to jump on that train and, my goodness, I’m so thankful for Iris for writing a character like that for me to play. Didn’t write it for me, but I ended up in that slot and I’m so gracious for it, because it’s amazing.

LENA:

Alright. And to finish, what is something you’ve learned in this project, as voice actor, head editor, social media, anything. What is the one thing that jumps to you?

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

It’s okay to accept help. I think in the beginning, I was like no, no, no, I can do this. Even if I’m struggling, it’s okay, I’ll get it done. But there’s some things that you really need to hand off to somebody else to help you finish. Or just to go, look I need a second opinion on this, does this need to rerecord, do you think I’m just overthinking it. Sometimes you just need an extra pair of hands, and we have so many extra pairs of hands in this project that are so willing to help in every instance. And it’s been something of a learning curve to go actually, you know what, I do have too much on my plate, and I need some help. Whether that was sitting down and going okay, I need a break from editing. I’ll just still work on Crown of Thorns and but make a whole bunch of drafts for an hour, or whether it was going this chapter is really making me crazy, I need a second opinion, can somebody just listen to it for me and tell me I’m not going crazy. You know, it’s having help and accepting help is not defeat. You’ve still got it done, and you’ve still done your work, but help is in no means defeat. And it’s been really eye-opening to accept that. And it’s something that I will definitely take on into the next project I’m a part of.

LENA:

I’m very glad to hear that. I’m very glad. Well, this has been great. Thanks for talking with us. Tell us, where can people find you online?

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

I’m on AO3 as UnholyFrank for My Chemical Romance stuff or UnholyCrowley for Good Omens and hopefully in the future some other fandom things if I get around to doing it. And I’m on twitter as UnholySnakeBoi.

LENA:

Awesome, thank you so much.

UNHOLYCROWLEY:

No worries, it’s been great, thank you very much.

LENA:

So, this was all we have for today. Next time, we’ll be talking to Grin, one of our artists and our beta listener, so keep your ears ready for that.

OUTRO MUSIC


	7. Interview with Grin

**Interview with Grin**

We are halfway through the mammoth project that is Crown of Thorns Podrama, and we've got some extra content for you all!  
Along our way, we have managed to gather an amazing team of voice actors, editors, artists, musicians, and organizers.  
This is the start of a series of interviews with the team about their experience and involvement with the Crown of Thorns Podrama.  
We're continuing our interviews with Grin, an artist that took interest in Good Omens years ago because of her love for Gaiman's works.  
Thanks to the show, she dived deep in the fandom and its history - discovering and loving CoT.  
She also discovered podfic and became an avid listener thanks to the fandom. She was thrilled by the pod'rama project, gathering such a beloved story and all her favourite podficcers  
\- and wanted to give the love back through watercolour illustrations and beta listening!

Love,  
The CoT Pod'rama Team

Listen - [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/0MgniOinW1P7zhn8xks9lg) / [Anchor](https://anchor.fm/crown-of-thorns-podrama/episodes/Interview-with-Grin-eihkc1)  
Listen and Download - [Archive.org](https://archive.org/details/interview-with-grin)

**Where to Find Grin  
**[Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/_greengrin/?hl=en) / [Tumblr](https://green-grin.tumblr.com)

**Interview with Grin Team**  
Hosted By - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Composer - [ Nuitarie](https://soundcloud.com/nuitarie) Chapter Artist - [CompassRose](https://outlikethat.tumblr.com/)  
Interview Editor - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Head Editor - [UnholyCrowley](https://archiveofourown.org/users/UnholyCrowley) Transcripts By - [AJfanfic](https://archiveofourown.org/users/ajfanfic)

Length - 47:58 minutes

Question Time Stamps

00:09 Introduction: Tell us a bit about yourself, where are you from, what do you do aside from fandom?  
02:33 How did you first land in Good Omens fandom?  
04:01 Were you in fandom in general?  
04:43 Were you always a creator in fandom as an artist?  
05:39 Did you use to write fics too?  
06:12 When did you find out podfic existed?  
09:03 Have you recorded any podfics yourself?  
11:10 Did you ever consider auditioning as a voice actor?  
12:02 How did you find CoT when you first read it?  
13:19 How did you end up being a beta listener for CoT? + Grin's beta process!  
15:27 Do you think beta listening is somehow similar to your IRL job?  
16:36 What do you like and dislike about being a beta?  
17:30 When did you first start drawing?  
18:49 When did you start drawing for fandom?  
19:45 You do a lot of watercolours, do you also do digital drawings?  
21:28 How do you pick the chapters that you're going to make cover art for?  
23:20 What is your creative process like?  
26:48 Do you do a lot of research for your art?  
28:43 How long would it usually take you to draw cover art?  
32:22 Do you think your interest on picture composition is informed by your knowledge of manga?  
33:54 What do you like the most and the least about being an artist?  
35:55 Do you have a favourite picture you've drawn and a favourite from some other artist in CoT?  
41:39 What's something you've learned during the project?  
44:36 Where can people find you online?  
45:27 Bonus! - Where goes "Grin" come from?

Transcript

INTRO MUSIC

LENA:

Hello, everyone, and welcome to our cast and crew Q&A. My name is Lena, and today I have for you an interview with Grin. Grin is an artist that took interest in Good Omens years ago because of her love for Gaiman's works. Thanks to the show she dived deep in the fandom and its history, discovering and loving Crown of Thorns. She also discovered podfic and became an avid listener thanks to the fandom. She was thrilled by the pod’rama project gathering such a love story and all her favourite podficcers, and wanted to give the love back through watercolour illustrations and beta listening. Grin, it's an honour to have you with us today. Tell us a bit about yourself before we start. Where are you from and what do you do aside from fandom?

GRIN:

Hello, everyone, so I'm French artist, I live in Paris, and aside from the water colouring in my free time, I'm, actually, I'm working in the book industry, so I'm doing comics. And more precisely, manga. I'm an editor.

LENA:

Any particular genre?

GRIN:

My publishing house is doing a lot of kinds of manga. So, I have action, romance and even boys love. So, yeah, that's very- that's never boring, I can say.

LENA:

Yeah. Very broad then.

GRIN:

Yes. Yes.

LENA:

And then- sorry, what did you study to get to what you do? Because you're an editor, yeah?

GRIN:

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Actually, my job is to take the book in the Japanese and to transfer it in the French book. So that's basically- a yeah.

LENA:

You're a translator?

GRIN:

No, I'm supervising the translators’ job, so I'm looking for mistakes or little things they forgot sometimes. But no, my job is really supervising. I am like the conductor of a musical.

LENA:

Well, that's really, really cool.

GRIN:

I really- I really love my job and I really love books. So I'm a bit of an Aziraphale person. I wouldn't imagine my life without books. That's why I work in them.

LENA:

Right. And well, as I read in your introduction, you had read Mr. Gaiman before and then you had read Good Omens. So how did you first land in Good Omens fandom? Was it back then?

GRIN:

Oh, yeah, actually, um, actually my love for Good Omens started a long time ago because I think it was almost ten years ago that my wife ordered the book on Amazon and - the book in English. And it was- at the time I wasn't at all used to reading in English. So that was really hard for me because, of course, there was a lot of jokes in the books and a lot of British characters. And you have to be quite good in English to understand all the subtleties. And at that time I was not that clever in English, and it was really hard for me to understand. But I- I managed to read it and actually I loved it, but that was all. And I wasn't aware of the fandom at all. And like I think many people I dived in the fandom with the show when the show came out.

LENA:

Uh huh. Were are you in fandom in general or not at all?

GRIN:

Oh yeah. I was in fandom. I am in fact in fandom since my teenage years. I used to be in a lot of manga-related fandom because I already loved manga and Japanese comic books, but I'm also a Whovian. I'm very, very fond of Doctor Who. So I was in this fandom also and, yeah yeah, fandom were always aware of part of my life and really important for me.

LENA:

And were you always a creator for fandom, like as an artist?

GRIN:

Yes, yes. Yes. Since my teenage years, I'm drawing for fandom stuff. Yep. I have already-Well, I was saying that I'm very fond of Doctor Who. I already draw for fan books and fan zines about the show and- Yeah, yeah, I'm an artist. I'm more of a fan artist than an artist. Since my teenage years, I love to- I always love to draw and write and, and create things related to fandoms and sharing the love for pieces of stories and TV shows, yes, with other people from my heart. Yes.

LENA:

You said you used to write fics too?

GRIN:

Yes. Yes, yes. But in French.

LENA:

Right. Right.

GRIN:

Yeah, yeah. So it's a smaller reach because today, nowadays everything is in English on the Internet. So. Well, art is more easy for me to share the love about the stories I like.

LENA:

I remember when I started I also wrote in Spanish because it was easier for me. And then eventually I realized that everything is in English on the Internet. So...

GRIN:

Yeah.

LENA:

When did you find out podfic existed?

GRIN:

That's a really interesting thing because I wasn't aware at all of podfic’s existence before Good Omens and when the show came out and the fandom became so big and I started to get involved in it. Actually, I had really, really a few time to read fan fiction, and there were so many fanfictions I wanted to read, but I had to work. Ugh! So one day I was browsing the archive and I found the first podfic. I began to listen. And that was a really- I wasn't aware that was a thing before. So I just launched the- on the archive I launched the file without any expectation and actually it was riveting and I was able to work and to listen, to read fic, at the same time. And that was the beginning for me of many, many, many workdays listening to podfic while working on my books. And actually it's really easy for me to work while listening to something because I know that it's not easy for everyone. Some of my friends cannot do something with their hands- with their ears full of audio. But for me it's- I don’t know, it's really easy. So I devour hours and hours of audio. And I- one of my favourite, of course, recorders were already Literarion and CompassRose and I already knew them before the project was launched. And when Lit launched the project, I remembered being very interested in it because at the time I already had read a big bunch of Crown of Thorns. But it wasn't an ideal time for me to take part of such a big project. I thought that at the time I hadn't that much free time, so it was a bit risky for me to get involved. But as time passed and my schedule cleared a bit and in the end, I was like, OK, so I really want to do that. So let's get involved. And that's when I joined the Discord and offered my services as an artist and as a beta listener.

LENA:

Yeah, awesome. And have you recorded any podfic for yourself?

GRIN:

No, no, no, no, I, I don't know a thing about recording myself. I'm the worst. I just know how to hold a pen and listen to things. But I don't know a thing about recordings and I think I would be a terrible voice actor.

LENA:

Of course not. You would be great.

GRIN:

No, I don't think so. I'm really a visual person. Not a good actor, I'm afraid.

LENA:

Well, practice makes perfect, so they say.

GRIN:

Yes. I would have to better my English before thinking of recording.

LENA:

Well, I'm sure there’s French fanfic that could be podficced.

GRINL

Actually, I looked for that on the Internet, and I didn't found even one. I don't think that we have- we don't have any French recorders of podfics. I looked.

LENA:

Well there, I know that there- what's her name. There is a girl that's- I don't know if she's French or Canadian, but she does both languages, English and French.

GRIN:

Oh, really?

LENA:

Yeah. I'll look for her name and let you know later because I can't remember right now.

GRIN:

I would be really interested to hear podfic in french.

LENA:

Hey everyone, editing Lena here. I went back and found the name of this podficcer. She’s French, and her name is Annapods on Ao3. That is A-N-N-A-P-O-D-S, on Ao3. She has a ton of podfic both in English and French so check her out if that’s something you’re interested in. Also, I know for a fact there are more bilingual and multilingual people in the podfic community, even though I may not know their names. So if you know of anyone that records in a language other than English, feel free to give them a shoutout in the comments. Okay, back to the interview.

LENA:

So you said that you were really interested in joining the project when you found out about it. Did you ever consider auditioning as a voice actor?

GRIN:

Oh no, like I said before, I already knew at the time I would be a terrible voice actor. And actually, I don't have any tech at home. I don't have any good microphone or anything. And I really, really wanted to draw for the project. And also I have- I don't have that much free time. And I think recording takes a lot of time. So it was not an option for me. I just wanted to draw and listen, of course.

LENA:

Mm hmm. And you said you had already read part of Crown of Thorns. How did you find it?

GRIN:

And actually, I think I found about Crown of Thorns on Tumblr because I was looking for things in the fandom lore and I found that famous post, that famous Tumblr post about Iris and about their work and all the backstory about the cottage and their questions to Neil and Terry. And that was the thing that sparked my interest. And I was like, oh, that's something really important in the fandom, like a milestone. And I need to read that fic. And that's how I started to read it. And I, of course, I became passionate about it because that's such a deep and interesting story. And the fact that it was written in such a long span of time. And, yeah, all those things were fascinating for me. And I really, I really loved it.

LENA:

Mm hmm. So before we get into your work as an artist, let's talk briefly about- you’re also our beta listener. And now we have Djap. But for a long time, you were the only beta listener. How did you end up being beta listener for Crown of Thorns?

GRIN:

Well, I wanted to get involved more in the project than just draw because, well, drawing was nice, but I really saw beta, like an opportunity for listening to the whole thing in advance. I just wanted to listen to the chapters before everyone else. And also, like I said before, it's really easy for me to work or to do things while listening to other things. So my beta process is generally to have one first listen of the- listening of the chapters with the script so I’m really focused on the words and if there is an editing bug or if there is some mistake in the sentence or all those things and I do a second listen more focused on the sound, is there any disturbances on the sounds and all those things and that I can do with my hands occupied. So… well, I give two listenings of each chapter, when I have time, of course. And yeah, it's never bothering for me to manage to listen to the chapters, so I don't need that much free time to do that, so it's really cool. I can yeah, I can do that quite easily.

LENA:

Mm hmm. And do you think maybe you chose to do beta listening because it's so similar to what you do, as I understand, what you do for your job, just catching mistakes that maybe the translators made and in our case, maybe figuring out if there are any mistakes in editing?

GRIN:

Yeah, that's really interesting to think about it like that. I actually never realized, but yeah. Yeah, I don't know. It's really clever because I’m really a detail-oriented person. I'm really focusing on the details and there's even that in my drawings, I think. Everybody tells me all the time, oh, you're so focused on little things and details and everything must have meanings in what you do and. Oh yeah, yeah. It's actually my call, I think, I like to focus on little things and the little mishaps and I like things to be really complex and perfect. So yeah. That's, I think that's really clever. Yeah. That’s what I like to do.

LENA:

Awesome. So about being a beta, tell us, what do you most like about it and is there anything you dislike?

GRIN:

So actually, like I said, I feel very privileged to listen to everything before everyone else, so I really like that. And I also really like to be in touch with Rhi, who is our head editor. It's really nice to chat with her about it, chapters and all the little things I spot. And yeah. So I really like that social aspect of beta and-

LENA:

Right.

GRIN:

Yeah I think that's it. I just love to discover each new chapter and be in touch with the head editor about those.

LENA:

Uh huh. So let's move onto your artist's work. You work with us as an artist. When did you first start drawing for yourself?

GRIN:

Oh, I think I, like many people who loves drawing, I think I actually never stopped drawing. I loved to draw when I was a child. And growing up, I never stopped. I never stopped drawing. And I remember that my first drawing were actually from scenes from the book I loved. So that was already fanart at the time when I was, I don't know, 13 or 14. And yeah, I remember also that I loved to copy artists. I loved, like a comic book and I tried to replicate the style of the artist who drew it. And that's how I developed my own, I think my own skill and my own style. And I basically never stopped. I just keep on doing that.

LENA:

And do you remember when you started drawing for fandom?

GRIN:

Well, I think, I think that was when I was a teenager. Well, I already said I used to read a lot of manga. I was really passionate about that. And I love to draw, at the time, I loved to draw my favourite characters in well, in various settings and invent them stories. So that's when I started to do that. Yeah. With a lot of manga characters at first. And then I kept on doing that with the book characters I loved. And after that, I became involved in a lot of TV shows growing up and I also drew my favourite actors and yet that was it. Never quit doing that.

LENA:

Awesome. And are you- you do a lot of watercolour. Do you also do any digital drawing?

GRIN:

Oh, that's- actually when I was younger I used to draw only digitally, so I didn't do traditional at all. I had my little laptop and my graphic tablet and I was doing everything digitally. That was a lot easier for me at the time. But at the time I also wasn't spending all my day on the computer. And now the tables have turned, like we said, and I am spending all my day on the big iMac for my job. And when I come home in the evening, I just cannot stand to be in front of a computer anymore. And paper just became my best friend because I would just go mad to be in front of a computer all the time.

LENA:

Right.

GRIN:

So actually I think I really started to do watercolours two or three years ago. It's not that long. I always liked to work with watercolours, but much less than right now. And I really worked on my technique and skills since I think two or three years. And no, I don't see myself doing anything other than watercolours. I just love them.

LENA:

So when you started working for Crown of Thorns as an artist, how did you or how do you still pick the chapters that you're going to make cover art for?

GRIN:

Oh, that's a really, really interesting question, because at first when I joined the project, I just picked the first chapters that interested me in chronological order because we had to keep up with the publishing schedule. So I chose the first chapter that I really loved. It's the shortest chapter, I think, of the whole series, the first I painted for. And generally, I pick a chapter because it really rang something deep inside me, a memory, a feeling, something I found really interesting to discuss, a philosophical question... It can be a lot of things, but it's, generally, it’s chapters that has a nickel with something inside me, or I felt a lot of things while reading. And yeah, what I want to do with my drawings is translate those feelings on the paper like- I don't know if I'm going to be very clear, but give my own perception of the feelings I felt when I was reading. So that's really what's driving me to pick up the chapter, the chapters.

LENA:

That’s really cool. And what is your process like for creating the cover, that translation of your feelings into the paper? Is there anything you do consciously every single time, or is it different for every chapter?

GRIN:

It's different for every chapter. But there's a thing I focus a lot when I draw, and more particularly when I compose the picture it's- I needed to work with- I cannot just put characters in the background. I really need for my character and the background to be related, to be communicating with each other, if you want. So I think that when I compose my drawings and- Yeah, I really focus on that. Like the first chapter, I picked was Crowley and Aziraphale in York. And I really wanted to do something with the city and Crowley. And that was really important for me, that the background and the things around the characters are working with the characters and are very related to each other, so I always think about that when I compose a drawing and well, the last two chapters I illustrated were the chapters where, well, chapters about Amanda, about Mandy, and when I- when I drew the two pictures, because that's a chapter in two parts, so I delivered two pictures. I worked them like a mirror. For my first drawing, I have Mandy sitting on the floor with the ducks surrounding her and she's a bit distraught because, well, without spoiling what happens to her in the chapters is not really a fun time. So. Well, I really had this composition in mind. And when I drew the mirror piece with Crowley and Aziraphale, I really wanted to mirror that first picture. So they are also sitting on the floor surrounded by their luggage because they're coming back from a trip and- yeah, I wanted them- I wanted Mandy and the boys to be in the cottage because that's where the really important scenes I think, for me at least, that's where the very important scenes of those two chapters happened. So, yeah, I worked on them like a mirror and on those I, for me, the background was also very important. So yeah, I think that's that's really what I focus on, a composition structure and the relationship between the characters and the background when I draw.

LENA:

Do you do a lot of research for that, specifically, I'm thinking about the picture you did for the chapter in York, did you do any research?

GRIN:

Actually, yeah, yeah. I love doing research and I love doing drawing architecture and I love drawing objects also. So each time I need to design anything from, of course, the landscape of the city to a little, I don't know, kitchen props or really anything, furniture. I tend to sketch them before or to look for pictures on the Internet and I really want things to feel like they belong together when I design a room, for example. So yeah, I really have a process of thinking about all of that before and generally thinking what colours are going to go well together or should I take this angle, or that other angle would maybe work better... Yeah. I think about all of those things before drawing.

LENA:

Wow, that's a lot of work.

GRIN:

Yeah. Yeah, that's a lot of work but that's what's really fun for me. It's like getting the perfect shot. If I was a movie director I think that would also be the most interesting part: to have the perfect lighting, the perfect camera positioning, and everything.

LENA:

Even more like a photographer.

GRIN:

Yes, a bit.

LENA:

Yeah. How long would you say that cover art would usually take you?

GRIN:

Oh, that can be really different depending on the work needed. I think that generally, it's a day. If you add all the hours of work together, I say that it's probably a day for an average little picture, but I’m working first on the sketch, then I let it sit for a bit, then I'm in inking with black pen and when I did that, I also let the picture rest for a bit because I need to- Yeah, I need to be in a different mindset for watercolouring, and then there is the, yeah, the big part is the colouring part and I really need to be focused for that part because there no mistakes allowed because you can’t go back and make a control-z for with watercolour. So I yeah, I really need to be very focused and well, a lot of times I do little mistakes or things that were not scheduled at all with my colours. So I need to figure out how to turn my mistakes into better things and well it's a really- it's very cool, but it's also sometimes a bit stressful and yeah, that's what’s taking me I think the longest time to watercolour because I- yeah, it’s taking me a lot of time and- well, a lot of focus.

LENA:

And, well, I don’t draw, but if I’m not mistaken, you have to let the first layer of watercolour dry before you add something else, right? Or something like that?

GRIN:

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, and that also- I wasn’t going to say, I watercolour then I let it rest, then I re-watercolour, then I re-let it rest, but that’s what I do, that’s what I do. I have various stages of colouring and then when it’s all coloured with all the shadows and all the light parts, all the light and things parts, then I generally take my colour pens, I think it’s in English, just to basically just go, yeah, pencils of colours, and I’m making small adjustments, small details like and enhancing some colours or deepening some colour sometimes with those. And I love working with a gold gouache painting. So yeah, when water colouring is over I also take my gold paint and I'm generally a going a bit wild with it. I love adding gold touches everywhere, so I'm doing that.

LENA:

Yeah, that's very pretty. Do you think that and this is just another wild guess, but do you think that maybe your interest in the composition of a picture is informed by your love of manga? Because comics, in general, have to be really structured, so they have space for the characters, the action of... the dialogue bubbles and all of that?

GRIN:

Yeah, yeah. Totally, totally. I love drawing comics and I studied, I really studied how you do a comic because. Well of course in my job it's really important. Sometimes I have to suggest those kinds of things to the artist because I wasn't always a manga publisher. I also worked with French authors and yeah, yeah, you really had to... to be very careful and mindful of how a panel is structured and I had to deliver clever advices. And yes, you have to study composition and you have to study how to tell a story visually to be legitimate to do that. So yeah, absolutely. My love for composition and for detail and all those kinds of things totally come from my passion from comics.

LENA:

Awesome. So about being an artist, what is what do you like the most and the least?

GRIN:

Oh, what I like the most in drawing, for me, at least, it's that I get to tell a story with a picture. And for me, that's the most awesome feeling to be able to tell a story, to build a whole world, to convey a whole world with just ink and colour and just one picture is like magic for me, it's like I'm creating, I'm doing magic. And that's really what I love the most. What I dislike about- That most of the time, the picture you have on your paper, in the end, is not at all the picture you had in mind in the beginning. That was very frustrating when I was younger and I remember having fits over my pieces of papers or in front of my computer because I wasn't able to get it right. But growing up and getting older, I think I also became a bit wiser. And actually it's a thing I love today because, well, you get to surprise yourself because, of course, the thing you have in the end is not the thing that you wanted at first, but it's what you are and it's what you were able to produce at the time, the time you're drawing. So it's kind of also awesome in a way. So, yeah, but still it's a bit frustrating sometimes.

LENA:

Yeah. No, totally. As a writer, I can relate to that. All right. So let's move on to the final questions I have for you today. Do you have a favourite picture that you've drawn and a favourite picture that some other artist of the project has drawn?

GRIN:

Oh, it's really hard to...hm, about my pictures. Well, I think I'm really, really proud of the only picture actually I didn't get to talk about yet, which is the big poster, movie poster-like... a picture I designed for Adam and Sofia's wedding. Yeah, well, I really worked a lot on the composition of this one. And for once, it's not a picture where the background is that important because that there was a lot of characters alongside each other and, well, I think with the- I really loved the way I played with the glances, with the eyes of each character because they are all looking at something at each other or they have closed eyes and or in case of Aziraphale at the bottom of the pic, he has glowing eyes. And I was really quite proud of the way I managed to direct the gaze of each character. That's the thing I loved drawing for this one. Well, it took me a lot of time and effort. So, yeah, I-

LENA:

It came out amazing.

GRIN:

Thank you. Thank you very much. Yeah. I think everyone loved this one, so I was really glad and proud of it. And well, what I love is that we have so much different pictures and so much different styles. That's really interesting because we have very figurative things. We had also a very abstract things. And I was- I remember being amazed by the mosaic. I don't remember the artist, but that-

LENA:

I think it was AJM.

GRIN:

Oh, yes. That perhaps that was AJM, yes, for the chapter on the beach and I was like, wow, that's really cool. And I also well, I'm just working with my memory here, but I remember that CompassRose delivered a beautiful drawing for the trip in Japan for a very hot chapter, as I recall, with Aziraphale and Crowley doing shibari. And I really loved a picture with just the hands of the characters. I was fascinated with the picture and I was like, wow, Compass is so talented. They are an amazing voice actor, amazing graphics and then they are able to deliver such a beautiful drawing. And I was like, wow, that's so cool. But from the top of my head, well, maybe I can think of a bird picture that really brought my attention. And I think that I was really also amazed by the beautiful, well- As you may have understood, I love Japan. And I was also really amazed by the beautiful picture on the little bridge during the chapter for the Japan trip with the little bridge, with the koi underneath and the trees, the colours were really beautiful. I love this one.

LENA:

That one is by Mageink. I have the pictures open just to keep track of all the artists. So we've talked about Chapter 11 with AJfanfic as the artist, that’s the little mosaic. Chapter 20 Mageink, the koi pond, which is beautiful, all the colors in autumn. And then CompassRose for chapter twenty one, you picked, which is just amazing shibari art. And then we have the Chapter 21 sneak peek. We haven't talked about that all, but it's the same chapter and it's also amazing. Compass made like a joke cover art for the April Fool's episode.

GRIN:

I completely forgot about that one, but that was. Yeah, yeah.

LENA:

Because you mentioned Chapter 21. The real cover art was amazing, but it was the same chapter and I just, at first I was like, wait, hold on.

GRIN:

Yeah, that was really funny. And it adds to the qualities of CompassRose because they are also just really funny and that's unfair. They are so talented, they are also funny on top of everything else. Yeah.

LENA:

Yeah, incredible for sure. But yeah, I mean obviously we have amazing artists all across the board, but I'm always really interested to know which ones stood out to other people. So thank you for telling us. For our final question before we wrap up here, what's something you've learned during this project?

GRIN:

Oh, I learned a lot of things working on Crown of Thorns. I think that first I learned that it's really amazing to work in a big team of people and not in a work environment because I'm generally not that keen to get involved on projects with other people. And that's why I was also a bit afraid to get involved. At first I was like, well. Is it going to be- am I going to be good at that? Would it not be too hard for me? And I learned about myself that I was able to do it. I was able to do it. I was able to communicate in English. I was able to listen in English and give, I think, correct feedback. I was able to deliver a picture in time for deadlines and all those kinds of things. It seems a bit trivial, but. It really gives you a lot of good feelings, actually. It's really cool for self-esteem and yeah, yeah, I think I learned a lot about myself and of course, I'm really thankful for the project because it really gave me and still gives me the opportunity to draw a lot and to get better at drawing because well, I said that I never stopped drawing and it's true during my life, but well before Good Omens and before getting really involved in the fandom, I had, what, I think, five or six years of my life where I had less much time to draw. And the inspiration was not always there and sometimes I was struggling a bit, but the project of Crown of Thorns and the fandom, more generally speaking, really gave me the opportunity to draw and really try my best each time for each picture and to really get better at that, I think. And well, for all of that, I'm really grateful and I think I really learned a lot.

LENA:

All right, that's awesome. Well, thank you for talking with us Grin, and tell us, where can people find you online?

GRIN:

Thank you. That was really interesting. I hope my English wasn’t too bad.

LENA:

No.

GRIN:

And, well, you can find me online on my Instagram account where I post the most of my watercolours, and you can also find me on Tumblr at GreenGrin.

LENA:

And for anyone who is just listening, that's green-grin.tumblr.com. And your Instagram handle?

GRIN:

My Instagram handle is _greengrin. So that's the colour first and the grin like the smile second.

LENA:

Oh grin like the smile. That's so pretty. I didn't think of that.

GRIN:

Yeah. Actually, well I don't know if it's relevant for the interview, but there is a funny story behind why I am called Grin because when I started to draw all those years ago I always did a big mouth to my character, or a bit tweaked mouth and most of the time my family and friends were saying, well, their mouths are a bit odd and they look like they are, that's not quite right. And for the longest time, it was, well, I just liked to draw mouths like that, and for a long time, it stuck with me and well, that was something that was not really right and a bit ugly at the eyes of the people surrounding me. But I decided, fuck it, that's my signature thing. So I took this name to celebrate the fact that many people were thinking I was drawing mouths weirdly and I don't know if people are still thinking that about my drawings. I don't think so because that's when I was really younger and my style was really not evolved. But well, that's something from the past.

LENA:

All right.

GRIN:

But it stuck.

LENA:

Yeah. Well, thank you very much Grin.

GRIN:

Thank you.

LENA:

So this was all we had for today. Next time we'll be talking to Qwanderer, the voice of Asmodai, an artist, and organizer for the project. So keep your ears ready for that.

OUTRO MUSIC


	8. Interview with qwanderer

**Interview with qwanderer**

We are halfway through the mammoth project that is Crown of Thorns Podrama, and we've got some extra content for you all!  
Along our way, we have managed to gather an amazing team of voice actors, editors, artists, musicians, and organizers.  
This is the start of a series of interviews with the team about their experience and involvement with the Crown of Thorns Podrama.  
We're continuing our interviews with qwanderer, AKA Irene Wendy Wode, who plays the parts of Asmodai and others, as well as pitching in with art and information sorting.  
Irene is autistic and enjoys reading aloud and imitating voices. Xe read Good Omens first in the early '00s and appreciated it immensely, but didn't become actively involved in the fandom until the release of the miniseries.  
Xe then inhaled the miniseries and subsequently any and all fanfiction xe could find, as well as writing quite a few fics xemself.  
Irene has been writing fanfiction on and off since 2003, most of which can be found under the name qwanderer on ao3, as well as releasing five novels which you can find out more about at irenewendywode.com.  
Xe is excited to be practicing and improving xir audio recording and editing skills over the course of this project.

Love,  
The CoT Pod'rama Team

Listen - [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/58hZMaYm1WMfv2DFiKbKaz) / [Anchor](https://anchor.fm/crown-of-thorns-podrama/episodes/Interview-with-qwanderer-eis7ke)  
Listen and Download - [Archive.org](https://archive.org/details/interview-with-qwanderer)

**Where to Find qwanderer**  
[ AO3 ](https://archiveofourown.org/users/qwanderer) / [ Tumblr ](https://qwanderer.tumblr.com/) / [ Website ](https://irenewendywode.com/)

**Interview with qwanderer Team**  
Hosted By - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Composer - [ Nuitarie](https://soundcloud.com/nuitarie) Chapter Artist - [CompassRose](https://outlikethat.tumblr.com/)  
Interview Editor - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Head Editor - [UnholyCrowley](https://archiveofourown.org/users/UnholyCrowley) Transcripts By - [AJfanfic](https://archiveofourown.org/users/ajfanfic)

Length - 41:43 minutes

Question Time Stamps

01:04 Introduction: tell us a bit about yourself, what do you do aside from fandom?  
01:38 When did you first land in fandom? How was it?  
05:23 When did you start writing your original stories?  
06:27 When did you get into the Good Omens fandom?  
07:45 When did you find out podfic existed?  
08:08 Do you remember when you found out about podfic?  
09:05 Have you done any podfic yourself?  
10:34 How do you find the written medium similar/different from podficcing?  
11:20 How have you found the fic writing/podfic community?  
12:24 How did you find out about CoT?  
13:12 Did you already have a character in mind when you auditioned?  
14:24 What was it like hearing back after auditioning?  
14:47 What about smaller parts?  
15:40 Can you describe Asmodai from your point of view?  
18:09 What do you like the most/least about voice acting?  
19:47 When did you first start drawing?  
20:41 Was there any point where you started drawing more for fandom?  
21:36 How do you pick the chapters you want to draw for?  
23:33 How is your creative process for your cover art?  
25:09 How long does it usually take you?  
26:12 How do you balance being casual about your work with giving it so much detail?  
27:10 What's the thing you like the most/least about your work as an artist?  
28:31 Could you describe what you do as an organizer?  
31:55 What do you like the most/least about being an organizer?  
34:48 Do you have a favourite cover art that you've drawn/other people have drawn?  
37:03 What's something you've learned during the project?  
39:32 Do you think you're interested in working with bigger fandom groups because your family has been in fandom as well?  
40:27 Where can people find you online?

Transcript

INTRO MUSIC

LENA:

Hello, everyone, and welcome to our cast and crew Q&A. My name is Lena, and today I have for you an interview with Qwanderer. Qwanderer, a.k.a. Irene Wendy Wode plays the parts of Asmodai and others, as well as pitching in with art and information sorting, which has been incredibly fun. Irene is autistic and enjoys reading aloud and imitating voices. Xe read Good Omens first in the early aughts and appreciated it immensely, but didn’t become actively involved in the fandom until the release of the miniseries. Xe inhaled the miniseries and subsequently any and all fanfiction xe could find, as well as writing quite a few fics xemselves. Irene has been writing fan fiction on and off since 2003, most of which can be found under the name Qwanderer on Ao3, as well as releasing five novels. Xe is excited to be practicing and improving xir audio recording and editing skills over the course of this project. Qwanderer, it's an honor to have you with us today. Tell us a bit about yourself before we start. Where are you from? What did you do aside from fandom?

QWANDERER:

All right. Well, I live just outside Philadelphia and during the day I'm a warehouse worker, but my calling is storytelling. I just- I love to write and I love to write both fan fiction and books. And I have a lot of other little hobbies. But they're just-

LENA:

Writing is your main one.

QWANDERER:

Yeah, writing is what I do.

LENA:

And where did you land first in fandom and how was it?

QWANDERER:

Let's see. Well, this is going to be a long answer because I've sort of always been in fandom. I was raised in a very- like my mom is a Trekkie. She's always been a Trekkie since before I was born. And so in our house, we had not just Star Trek on the TV and Star Trek novels on the shelf. We also had the New Voyages anthologies, which are these two collections of short stories by Star Trek fans, and a lot of them were originally published in zines. Although we weren't involved in the zines, the production of zines and the distribution of zines, I was sort of always aware that they were there, that there was a fandom community. And I've also gone to a couple of conventions with my mom in my younger years. But then, in college, I became aware that there was this online fan fiction archive because my friend William was writing, I think it was, let's see, Final Fantasy fan fiction, and I didn't play Final Fantasy, but I did- I read his fic because he showed it to me and he went, Oh, and there's all these things online where you can find everybody's stories like this. And I thought, oh, I'm going to read some Terry Pratchett fan fiction. And so that was 2002, 2003, and I started writing, you know, a little here and there, just mostly gen fan fiction like, I had a Harry Potter story, which was a total Mary Sue, a new character meets Ginny and they have an adventure together and a lot of like Discworld stuff and a lot of poetry. But it didn't really stick yet because I wasn't sort of really involved in fandom deeply the way I am. I didn't yet have that calling for storytelling, so I did my other stuff, all my other little hobbies that I do, I did my art and I, you know, my crafting. And then I came back, I think, in 2006 a little bit when I'd seen Firefly because I was like, Firefly is great and I have stories I want to tell about that. But it wasn't until 2012. I had just gotten divorced. I’d just seen The Avengers movie. And those combined with first getting an account on Tumblr and I was learning a lot about myself and I was learning a lot about society as a whole, and I was sort of being disillusioned about the religion and the religious life that I'd grown up in and that all sort of- it made a soup of things that were happening that sort of transformed my life and it ended up with me going, I want to tell stories, I want to tell stories about queer people. And so I wrote a lot of fan fiction and then I wrote a lot of other stuff.

LENA:

Is that around the same time that you started writing your original stories?

QWANDERER:

Oh, well, my original stories, I had one that I had been working on since- I had more than one that I'd been working on since college. But it was still like in the hobby realm. It was like, oh, this is fun to play with. And I had one in particular, that same friend, William, had a bunch of ideas that he was like, I want to make this into a book, but I need someone to work with or bounce ideas back and forth and so my first book that was published was actually part of that world. It was something that we worked as co-authors on. But that was around the time that I started putting together my second book, which took a lot less time. Once you finish your first book, you have so many new skills and then your second book goes a lot faster, I found, in my own experience at least.

LENA:

And when did you get into the good Good Omens fandom, because you said you'd already read a lot of Pratchett. But what about the Good Omens?

QWANDERER:

That was another college friend introduced me to Pratchett and to the Good Omens. She was actually from New Zealand. So she had- it was like Pratchett was, I guess, bigger there at the time than it was in America. I mean, his work was bigger in the colonies than in the States. So I read it then and I really liked it. But the ideas appealed to me more than the characters. The ideas were what stuck in my head. And that's partly because I wasn't the same person that I am now. And I didn't, you know, I didn't interact with characters the way I do now. But also when I watched the series, I went, these are all the ideas that I loved about the book when I read it years and years ago. But the characters are now really pulling me in and making me want to tell stories about them.

LENA:

So you didn't get into the Good Omens fandom until the miniseries, really.

QWANDERER:

Mm hmm. Yeah, exactly.

LENA:

And what about podfic, when did you find out it existed?

QWANDERER:

Well, you know, I've always been sort of vaguely aware. I'll be scrolling through Ao3 and I'll go, oh, I want to read that fic, oh that says it's a podfic. I’ll click on it and then I'll click on the fic so I can read it. I'm not really a podfic listener.

LENA:

Do you remember when you found out about podfic? Did you think it was strange?

QWANDERER:

Oh, no, because I mean, there's always been a strong culture in my family of reading aloud, not just with my parents and my siblings, but also with my grandparents. I know they read aloud to my parents a lot. So my dad's parents especially are really into books. And my aunt has been trying to write a book for years and years and years. But yeah, we're all I mean, storytelling has been part of my life even before I felt called to do it. And we read the Harry Potter books aloud as a family when they came out, after I think the third one or the fourth one. I know we read the fourth one aloud together as soon as it came out. So it was just yeah, podfic sounds like, you know, doing that as a fandom rather than as a family.

LENA:

Mm hmm. And have you done any podfic yourself, aside from- from the project?

QWANDERER:

Hmm, yeah, it's usually one of my own fic, although I have done, I think, one or two other things. But it wasn't really like, as part of the podfic community, it felt more like, you know, I have this story and I can hear it in my head and I just want to illustrate how it sounds to me for other people in case they wanted to listen to it as well, my interpretation, especially with characters like Loki from the MCU, I’d hear his voice in my head every time I read an especially striking fic with lines that sounded like him and a lot of my own work, I've been like, I'm not sure if I'm getting down how it sounds in my head, but I want people to know how it sounds in my head.

LENA:

Right. Yeah, no, I totally can relate to that, to creating an podfic just because it has a particular sound in your head that you want others to hear. And I think for me, that personally, is a bit about creating in the same way that I would create a story, a written fic, putting the words for the characters that I think they would say. But how do you find the written medium similar or different from podficcing?

QWANDERER:

Well, I think at its heart, it's all about storytelling, which, of course, is the basis of my passion for writing. And I always- the way I think is in words. So the words for the storytelling is always sort of the underlying basis for me. And anything outside of that, like pictures that I might draw or recordings that I might make, a sort of just illustrations like the way you'd have a picture book or a comic book or an interpretation on the stage or on a screen.

LENA:

Yeah, fair enough. And what about the community side, the fandom side to all of this? How have you found different communities, not just the fic writing, but also the podfic community?

QWANDERER:

Hmm. Well, I absolutely love the relationships that I have with my readers and other fic writers and just people in fandom who appreciate the same things about these materials as I do. And because I don't listen to a lot of podfic or make a ton of it myself compared to what I'm writing, I mean, this is- this project is the first place where I've really had interactions that were really centrally based around podfic. And I found that to be something really new and interesting for me. But it's just as great as all my other fandom interactions.

LENA:

Right. And how did you find out about the project?

QWANDERER:

Well, I was contacted because I actually- I do have a Good Omens podfic. Although, it's not honestly among my best podfics. So I was contacted as a voice actor and I said, yes, I would like to be part of it.

LENA:

So you immediately knew you wanted to participate?

QWANDERER:

Yeah, I thought I don't know what part I want, but I want a small part or several small parts, because the thought of doing an extended large part where I'm reading the same character regularly for months and months was incredibly intimidating.

LENA:

Mm hmm. And so I've heard from other voice actors that when they auditioned, they put down a couple of names and they were like, I could do these or these. Did you have any names in mind from the smaller parts?

QWANDERER:

Yeah, I had several. And one of them was Asmodai. I was very much interested in playing Asmodai and I had others and they weren't really- It wasn't really about the character, it was the size of the part and the meat of the part, it was a moment of attitude where I was like, oh, that's cool. I would like to do that. Yeah, I actually put my name down for Pepper, but I think one of the reasons that they might not have picked me for that is that this is a book based project. And whenever I do a voice for someone who's in the show, I can't help but sort of imitate the show voice of the actor who was doing that. I might have sounded a little bit similar.

LENA:

Mm hmm. Yeah, no, I find that very, very relatable. So what was it like when you heard back after auditions and they came back to you and said, hey, now you got Asmodai.

QWANDERER:

I was so happy, Asmodai was my top choice and I was like, I have got this part and I've got these other parts and that's like a perfect amount for me.

LENA:

Do you do any other smaller parts?

QWANDERER:

Yeah, I have two smaller parts that I was assigned at the beginning with the auditions, and they weren't, you know, they were interesting, but, you know, they were very minor. And then I've also had a few that I've picked up along the way as the project has gone on. And it's just because they needed someone to do the part. And I was, Oh, yeah, that that sounds fun, too. So.

LENA:

Right. But just very minor parts that just appear in a chapter or two maybe.

QWANDERER:

Yeah, I have my second most fun part I think is Harold and he appears in two chapters and only one of them has been published, but I read them both at the same time. I like to be able to read it all all at once. So I know I'm getting it consistent.

LENA:

So more on Asmodai, can you- could you describe Asmodai from your point of view?

QWANDERER:

Oh, right. So I first noticed him as a role I wanted for a couple of reasons. And one is that he's only in three chapters and I could record all that material at once. Like I was saying, I like to do that. But he really does have this presence. He really makes himself known as part of the story. And, yeah, it's a role that's got some meat to it. But it felt more like something I could have fun with and not stress about, because he's not supposed to be relatable, it's a little bit difficult to get inside his head. And because I'm autistic, I know I can miss emotional nuances sometimes and hit weird notes without noticing. And I can act. I can give a neurotypical performance pretty well if I give it some effort and planning. But I like dramatic villains because I feel like I can just go for it and just let them sound a little bit off. And that's going to be part of the picture that you're trying to present, and then if you do get inside Asmodai’s head, I guess he's similar to a lot of other revenge driven villains but one of my favorite parts about him is that he isn't bored by things like you'll get these bored villains. They'll be, oh, I don't care about this, when does the screaming start or whatever and Asmodai isn’t bored. He's got this revenge journey, but along the way, he's like, oh, isn't that interesting? Or, Oh, how does that work or well, you certainly have potential. Like he's got- he's tying everything back into his revenge plan, sure. But he's having fun geeking out about stuff along the way.

LENA:

Right. He has a personality aside from his revenge. Right. Right. Right.

QWANDERER:

Another thing that drew me to him is the genderfuckery, that is his wearing a female body around and using male pronouns and just generally not feeling the need to adhere to that binary. And as a non binary person myself, that appealed to me, although it's kind of ironic that in the end he couldn't let go of the binary between hell and heaven. So it's an interesting story that way too.

LENA:

Right. Alright, so all in all, what would you say that you like the most about voice acting or if there's anything you dislike?

QWANDERER:

All right, so I just- I love if I can do something, you know, dramatic and a little weird, I love the actual speaking, the acting and the recording. I don't so much like the editing. So when I do my own podfic, I tend to just go. I do it all in one shot and I do as little editing as possible. So, and that means that- well because my background is in reading aloud and especially out of the Harry Potter books, I'm very practiced at switching back and forth between accents. So I'll just do that in a story. If I'm the only voice, I'll just switch back and forth so I don't have to edit it later because that would be terrible.

LENA:

I know, for sure. I remember I once tried to do a podfic for a challenge that was recording every single character separately and then the narration and then editing everything together. And because I'm very much like that, I don't like editing. I just want to read it. It turned out good. The final podfic was good, but it was so much work. Yeah, I bet someone who enjoys editing would have really liked to do that. That person is not me.

QWANDERER:

Yeah.

LENA:

So I actually relate to that a lot. Let's move on into the work you do as an artist as well. Tell us, when, when did you first start drawing?

QWANDERER:

Well, that's another thing where I have to go back to the culture of my family because, like my mom is an illustrator, freelance illustrator for like, just little things occasionally. And so- she's also got a passion for crafting and especially paper crafting. And so the culture of my household has always been like when you do art projects in school, it's not just, oh, art, something you do when you're a little kid. It's art is something you do to feed your soul and to communicate and do all this stuff. So it's something that I never stopped doing. So I can't exactly point to a point in my life and say, this is when I started like doing art.

LENA:

All right. And when did you... or maybe it was always like this for you as well. But was there any point when you started drawing more for fandom?

QWANDERER:

Let's see, um, not really, I mean, I- when I would write my own stories, I would often do a little doodle or two as an illustration and when I started doing fan fiction, I would do a little doodle or two as an illustration. But by the time 2012 rolled around and I was really seriously getting into fandom, I had already decided that I didn't want to be an artist and I didn't want to draw every day, so. It's still sort of that way for me, it's like if I have an idea, I'll pick it up and I'll execute it. And it's not something that I do all the time. It's just something that I occasionally feel like.

LENA:

Mm hmm. So then how do you pick the chapters that you really want to make cover art for?

QWANDERER:

Hmm. Well, at first I had no intentions of being an artist for the project unless someone needed art for a chapter at really short notice, because I know I'm- and that's one of my favorite ways to interact as a fan artist, is to be a pinch hitter for a project. I'm very casual about my art. So I have a fairly easy time, relatively speaking, of just making something and saying, OK, it's done and it's ready. So the first chapter that I did was a pinch hit, and it was just so they needed someone for it. So I did it. And then everyone was like, oh, that's so good, and you should do more art for the project. And I had a lull in my writing. I wanted to do some art to just, you know, refresh my mind, and I was looking at the chapters and I was going, I want to do that, I feel like I could do justice to that chapter because I- with the first cover that I did, it was kind of eerie and it was it was detail oriented because that's how I- that's the mood that my art has tended towards lately is eerie and detail oriented. And I went looking for chapters that had that same kind of feel to them that I could pick something and do the chapter justice, using that mood of sort it's a little weird and it's a little- it's very detailed and rich and it's about objects. So I picked chapters that I thought I could do that for.

LENA:

Cool, and what is your process once you've picked a chapter? How do you decide what- well, you want to focus on objects you just mentioned, but how do you decide what you want to put in the image?

QWANDERER:

Right, it is like after that first chapter, it has been about- I first choose it by going, what is an object I can focus on that would really embody the chapter, so yeah, so I already have an object in mind if I'm picking the chapter. And for example, I had one recently that was put up that was just Christmas lights against stone. And so I took that image and I went, you know what, I want to get out the black paper, I have black paper. I don't have a lot of various supplies anymore because I've sort of- I've pared down my art supplies severely. I've had to move a bunch of times. So there's only a few supplies that I've really kept around consistently. And one of them is black paper, because it's so much fun to turn things around and take out a white pencil and just draw a light instead of drawing dark. So, yeah, they've all been really different processes, actually, because it's always been about why did I feel like picking this and what am I excited about right now about this?

LENA:

Right. So it depends on the picture. And then does it also depend on the picture, how long it would take you?

QWANDERER:

Oh, yes. For, I think it was chapter twenty nine, that took a very long time.

LENA:

That's the feather, isn't it?

QWANDERER:

Yes. The feather and the tracking device and the map and the needle. And the map, I spent a very long time on the map. You know, it's- I have to take a map and sort of distort it. So it's at the angle where I'm- it's the same as it would be in the picture. And then I have to trace the lines. I did trace that, with enough accuracy. Yeah. And I wanted to trace it with enough accuracy that no one would go, oh, that's that's not what that coastline looks like at all. But I also didn't want to drive myself nuts over it, so.

LENA:

Right. Of course.

QWANDERER:

It was-it’s was an interesting line to walk.

LENA:

So especially considering that you said you're rather casual with your art, how do you put that together with the amount of detail that you're willing to put into your images?

QWANDERER:

Well. I mean, the thing about detail and me, I'm autistic, so details are the easy part for me. It's the overall picture where I struggle a lot as an artist, like I love when I can just sort of relax and and sort of say, OK, I've got the picture set up the way I want it and now all I have to do is add all these little textural bits and all these details and all this other stuff. As long as everything else, as long as all the larger elements are already in the places where I want them, then art can be actually very relaxing.

LENA:

Right. So what would you say is the most- the thing you like the most and the least about your work as an artist?

QWANDERER:

Well, what I've enjoyed most with my art on this project, I think has been that sort of- the textural aspect and sort of getting into the, I don't know how to say this, making the picture look like it feels like something texturally, like evoking something not just visually, but like evoking something that you would- that feels that, you know, when you look at it, you can tell what it would feel like to touch.

LENA:

Yeah, I know, I know what you mean. I'm trying to think back to your images because I was thinking especially of the feather, again, the feather and the fact that the map is sort of like on a wooden surface. So I was definitely thinking about that. Yeah, I can see what you mean. We will probably have the art put in the Ao3 post. So if anyone is just listening, you can go to the Ao3 post for this interview and see the images that Qwanderer has drawn. But let's move on to your work as an organizer, because you also participate in the project as an organizer. So could you describe a little of what you do?

QWANDERER:

All right. Well. At first, I was more like- I was in charge of noticing things, I felt like. I started out by just being around on the Discord and saying, and noticing if something was out of place and just bringing it to someone's attention, like this has a typo in it or we should maybe get someone working on that because it looks like it might need to happen soon. And then, like, as I got more invested in the project. This happens to me, I get very invested in group projects as it goes on. I like to keep my role small to start with, because I know it's just going to spread out. I'm just going to take on more stuff as it goes on. So I noticed that we needed transcripts for some of our social media posts. And I was like, that's something that I can do fairly easily, comparatively. And I took that on. And then I also- I had mentioned that we needed to have someone working on the Tumblr in terms of having all the pages actually- all the links go to pages and the pages have something on them. And, you know, I didn't especially want to take that on because I didn't know how other people wanted it done. I didn't want to make that decision. But it came to a point where I was like, someone needs to do this and no one else is doing it and I can do it fairly easily. And if someone has a problem with what I'm doing, they can tell me. And I don't want to be the one making the decisions, which is why I'm not, you know, I don't have the organizer role on the Discord because I don't want someone to come to me and go, so as an organizer, what's your opinion on this? But it's like, if there's organizational work that's just moving information from one place to another, then. I will often step up and do that, because that part's fairly easy for me.

LENA:

Right. Well, something I really like about the way that we’re doing this project is that most of the decisions I think are taken by the group. We all take the decisions, so I don’t think there’s been a case where we’ve been okay, all organizers, we’re going to think about this. Generally, we have people who organize particular parts of things. For example, I’m more invested in the social media part of things, so if someone has a question about Tumblr or something like that, it would be normal that they would ask me. But I don’t think that someone would come just to me and say like hey, how do you think we’re going to do this. So that’s something that I really like. Like, I don’t mind having the organizer tag, because I know it’s not going to be just me making the decision. But I do see what you mean, it’s a little daunting, when some decision has to be taken and you’re like, well, I have to say something.

QWANDERER:

Yeah.

LENA:

Yeah. So basically, you just started doing small things, and then it snowballed into being a bit everywhere.

QWANDERER:

Yeah.

LENA:

And what would you say you like the most and the least about doing these tasks?

QWANDERER:

Well, lets see. I still like just when I can notice something and go hey. I like when it’s, you know, it's a simple fix, and it would have been, you know, not great if it had just gone on being that way but it’s going to be better because I just said oh hey. I sort of like that feeling. And then I definitely- I least like having to go to people and get answers about things. I like it when the information is just there and I can move it around.

LENA:

You’re thinking of the social media credits, yeah? That sometimes we need to update the spreadsheet?

QWANDERER:

Yeah, and the transcripts for the covers when I need a description of the image and uh-

LENA:

Yeah, that happens. I put together the teasers for instagram and sometimes the art will be finished but there will be no cropped version and I try to let the artists give me their cropped version so I don’t have to choose what part of the image they like the most and they want to tease, but sometimes I just have to remind them, and I’m like, I don’t want to nag, but I need this.

QWANDERER:

Exactly, yeah.

LENA:

Yeah, sometimes that happens. Do you have, just out of curiosity, the proofreader role?

QWANDERER:

I do not. One of the reasons for that is, as the person who transcribes the images, I always have my eyes on them before they go to the proofreader role. And another reason is that the proofreader role catches things that I wouldn’t, like- because I see what I’m looking for, you know, when I do the transcripts I’m looking for specific things and if something’s out of place in terms of the project as a whole, like if someone notices the wrong person or the wrong chapter, or whatever, that’s not what I’m looking for when I’m doing the transcription, so it’s not something I easily see.

LENA:

Fair enough. You do actually have to see it, so, yeah, didn’t think of that. So let’s move on to the final few questions that I have for you. Well, one of them was going to be what is something that you identify with about Asmodai, but you’ve already told us quite a bit about why Asmodai is pretty much the perfect character for you. So I’ll ask you, do you have a favorite cover art picture that you have drawn, and a favorite by other people?

QWANDERER:

Right. My favorite is the feather and the tracking device that I’ve done. That was- it was intense but it turned out so great. The more I look at it the more I’m like, can’t believe I did that.

LENA:

It’s beautiful.

QWANDERER:

In terms of the covers overall, I have to say two things. I have to say that every time Grin posts art I just- it’s jaw droppingly beautiful. It’s just- I love her style. It’s amazing. But I think my favorite cover picture overall is the one that Vivi did for...I have the chapter number written down somewhere.

LENA:

I think I know which one you’re going to say.

QWANDERER:

38? I think?

LENA:

Yeah, 38 is also one of my favorites.

QWANDERER:

With Raphael and Uriel smoking.

LENA:

It’s beautiful, it’s one of my favorites too. Yeah, it’s so colorful, I really like the way the smoke works in the picture. I have no idea how you would make that, like, I’m not an artist, but it’s really good, I really like it. And I think the signature, or the- yeah that’s what it’s called, Vivi’s signature is also drawn with smoke and it’s such a cool detail.

QWANDERER:

I don’t know if I noticed that.

LENA:

Yeah, it’s in the left bottom corner of the image. At least, I think that’s her signature, I think it says Vivi. Maybe I’m just pretending to see things in the smoke. But I would say that’s her name. But yeah, I mean, of course we have- all of our artists are super talented, but I always want to hear what pictures stand out to other people in the project. So yeah, thank you for telling us. And the final question, what is something you’ve learned during this project as a voice actor, artist, organizer, as anything?

QWANDERER:

Right, so, I think I have learned a lot about recording and editing. I just sort of made podfic before as sort of this casual thing, I just sort of slap it together and I’ve learned a lot from being part of a community that has a lot of experience with it and knows exactly what settings you want to use and exactly how to set things up and what to edit and what you leave as it is, so. And as an artist I’ve learned a couple of new things as well. I don’t know if I can articulate those, but every time you do a new piece of visual art, you learn something.

LENA:

Would you say you’ve learned more about your own style, or maybe more about the technicalities of actually using your art supplies to create an image?

QWANDERER:

In the neighborhood of style, but also in the neighborhood of what my strengths are as an artist. It’s, yeah, it’s hard to articulate.

LENA:

That happens with art sometimes.

QWANDERER:

Yeah. But then also as an organizer, it’s been really interesting to watch how the organizational structure works in this project and to be part of it. Because, you know, I’ve been part of a lot of big fandom projects and I’m just attracted to big groups of fans trying to do one thing. And it’s just it’s always been fun and I think it’s never really accomplished all of what it set out to do and this project, it feels like it’s going to accomplish everything it’s setting out to do and it’s just so interesting to see what things are different and what people are doing to make this happen as opposed to a lot of the other projects I’ve worked on. So that’s been a big thing that I’ve learned and that I’m very happy to have had this experience.

LENA:

Right. Cause I know a lot of people are intimidated by big groups of fandom doing anything or sometimes they just don’t think it will work out, like you said. Would you say that you are more interested in this kind of event because your family has always been fandom adjacent, so to speak?

QWANDERER:

I think, yeah, I think that’s a big part of it. It’s like, I’ve always been encouraged to, like, be creative and be excited about what I’m reading or viewing, and to contribute my own stuff to that. And it’s just part of who I am and who I’ve been, sort of, raised to be. Just be a part of this community, and get excited, and do what you feel called to do.

LENA:

Right. Well, that’s awesome. Well, thank you for talking to us Qwanderer, and tell us, where can people find you online?

QWANDERER:

Alright, well, I’m Qwanderer on Tumblr and on Ao3, and a couple of other places but I’m never actually there, so I’m easiest to find on Tumblr. I also have a website for my books at Irenewendywode.com, although that’s actually a sideblog of my main tumblr, so.

LENA:

Alright, well, thank you so much.

QWANDERER:

Yup, it’s been fun talking with you.

LENA:

So, this was all we have for today. Next week, we’ll be talking with Vivi, one of our artists, so keep your ears ready for that.

OUTRO MUSIC


	9. Interview with Vivi

**Interview with Vivi**

We are halfway through the mammoth project that is Crown of Thorns Podrama, and we've got some extra content for you all!  
Along our way, we have managed to gather an amazing team of voice actors, editors, artists, musicians, and organizers.  
This is the start of a series of interviews with the team about their experience and involvement with the Crown of Thorns Podrama.  
We're continuing our interviews with Vivi, or Catofapocalypse, who is an artist from Vietnam who had fallen in love with Good Omens ever since she watched the series back in June, 2019.  
Since then she has been doing her best to contribute to this lovely fandom. Vivi likes making cracky doodles, having done several gag comics, and drawing comics.  
Currently, she is working on a crossover AU called Four of a Kind. You can find it via the hashtag Vivi4oK on Tumblr.

Love,  
The CoT Pod'rama Team

Listen - [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/6SlwWu1YtICOv4udsnH0Km) / [Anchor](https://anchor.fm/crown-of-thorns-podrama/episodes/Interview-with-Vivi-ej6p5e)  
Listen and Download - [Archive.org](https://archive.org/details/interview-with-vivi)

**Where to Find Vivi**  
[AO3](https://archiveofourown.org/users/CatofApocalypse/works) / [Tumblr](https://vivi-theakuneko.tumblr.com/) / [Twitter](https://twitter.com/catofapocalypse) / [NSFW Twitter](https://twitter.com/bratofa)

**Interview with Vivi Team**  
Hosted By - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Composer - [ Nuitarie](https://soundcloud.com/nuitarie) Chapter Artist - [CompassRose](https://outlikethat.tumblr.com/)  
Interview Editor - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Head Editor - [UnholyCrowley](https://archiveofourown.org/users/UnholyCrowley) Transcripts By - [AJfanfic](https://archiveofourown.org/users/ajfanfic)

Length - 19:28 minutes

Question Time Stamps

00:10 Introduction: Tell us a bit about yourself, what do you do aside from fandom?  
01:42 How did you first land in fandom?  
02:42 When did you first start drawing?  
03:31 Have you ever written fic or done podfic?  
04:24 When did you first find out podfic existed?  
06:57 How did you find out about CoT?  
07:26 What roles did you want to read?  
08:05 Had you read CoT before joining the project?  
08:43 You were the brilliant mind behind the April Fools episode, right? How did you come up with it?  
09:29 How do you pick the chapters you make cover art for?  
10:20 What is your process like for creating the cover art?  
11:19 How long would that usually take you?  
11:36 What do you like the most and the least about your work as an artist?  
12:21 When did you decide that you wanted to pick side characters to voice?  
13:43 What do you like about being part of the side characters?  
14:28 Can you relate to your characters?  
15:09 Do you have a favorite cover art picture, by you and by others?  
16:56 What is something you've learned during this project?  
18:19 Where can people find you online?

Transcript

INTRO MUSIC:

LENA:

Hello, everyone, and welcome to our cast and crew Q&A. My name is Lena, and today I have for you an interview with Vivi. Vivi, or Catofapocalypse, is an artist from Vietnam who fell in love with Good Omens ever since she watched the series back in June, 2019. Since then, she has been doing her best to contribute to this lovely fandom. Vivi likes making crack-y doodles, having done several gag comics and drawing comics. Vivi, it's an honor to have you with us today. Tell us a bit about yourself before we start. What do you do aside from fandom?

CATOFAPOCALYPSE:

Oh, well, you already know I'm from Vietnam. So, I live in Ho Chi Minh City, it’s a really nice place. And there's a lot of food for sure, so if you want to visit Vietnam, you can go there and maybe I will accompany you. Ok, so aside from fandom, I don't do much, because I live my life around the fandom. I don't do a lot of original things. I just think of fandoms. All of my favorite characters are more interesting than my own. So I just do a lot of fanart. For a job I work at a start up company. On the weekends, I work part time as an English teacher. I teach mostly children. Yeah, that's about it.

LENA:

And how did you first land in fandom?

CATOFAPOCALYPSE:

In fandom in general, I learned to use the internet when I was like 12 and I found an anime manga forum. So I found- so I was in the Dragonball Z fandom. And then I found some friends there and they started introducing me to more things. For Good Omens I actually hadn't watched the show or read the book and I saw a lot of fanart on Facebook. And then I read some of the analysis of the show, like the fans that take a screenshot from the show and they analyze things. And I think that is very interesting. So I got curious and I went to look for the show and then I bought the book to read. So that's how I found Good Omens.

LENA:

All right. And what about drawing? When did you first start drawing?

CATOFAPOCALYPSE:

I started drawing when I was 12. I was in the Dragonball Z fandom, so I drew on MSpaint and I basically- I just draw chibi, all the little things. I draw with my mouse, and then I asked my mom to get me a drawing tablet. I wish I was in the Good Omens fandom back then, because it was out before I was born, but yeah. I prefer drawing the book version more than the TV show.

LENA:

All right. So I see that you were already in fandom by the time you started drawing. Have you ever written fic, or made podfic aside from your art?

CATOFAPOCALYPSE:

Yeah, I do write fanfictions, but I cannot write, like, solo work very well because I have difficulty writing alone. I usually need someone to write with me, like, how you do a roleplay, and then we will edit that into a fic. And for podfic, I did try a few times when I was inspired by everyone else, but unfortunately I cannot record very well because of my environment. And so I don't have the privacy to actually act out the dialogues. So maybe I will try again in the future.

LENA:

And when did you first find out podfic existed?

CATOFAPOCALYPSE:

Let’s see...I found out when I joined the Good Omens fandom, I was in a Discord server and then I saw Literarion share her podfic in there. So I listen to it and then I start talking to her. And I found out that people actually record fanfiction. It’s actually interesting, I thought that like, people only do that for, like, professional things, like audiobooks. I didn't think that people, like, record fanfiction.

LENA:

How have you found the artist community versus the writer or the podficcing communities, are they similar or are they different?

CATOFAPOCALYPSE:

Yeah, I mostly found them from Facebook and Tumblr. I am not actually in the podfic community, so I don't know much, but in the artist community I think it’s very fun and so far everyone's been very friendly and helpful. All the artists I've talked to have been very nice to me and all of them, like, many of them are so talented. I really have a lot of- I never had, like a favorite artist before, until Good Omens, because I back when I was in the Dragonball Z fandom is just like we are all kids, you know, like, we draw at the same level. And when I got into Good Omens, there are just, like, so many good artists and there are so many works out there. I am not sure how different it is from the podfic community. I think everyone is just all talented and very creative. I have to say that the podfics are very creative, like the way people use the different voices and the different sounds that- sometimes they actually make sounds and they create sound effects for their podfics. It's very nice. So, I don't think it's very different from the artist community. It’s just a different kind of art, you know?

LENA:

Right. So you've mentioned that you found out about podfic from Lit in a Discord server. Was that too how you found out about Crown of Thorns?

CATOFAPOCALYPSE:

Yes, she actually said that she was going to do a podrama and then I volunteered to help with the cover art. And then when I got in there, I wanted to try doing some voice acting, too, so I got a few small roles.

LENA:

So when you were auditioning, what roles did you want to- what did you want to pick?

CATOFAPOCALYPSE:

I think I wanted a side character, I remember. I think she or he was Asian, I think. I don't remember the name, but that's like the only Asian character that I remember. I tried the audition with- I think I was reading Crowley and Aziraphale I was, I don't think my voice is very suitable.

LENA:

And what about the fic? Had you read the Crown of Thorns fanfic before auditioning and before joining the project?

CATOFAPOCALYPSE:

Actually, no. I don't read much because I have a very short attention span and I cannot read like, anything that is long and like, when I see a lot of chapters, I just don't read them. But like I’ve listened to the- when the podfic, the podrama comes out, I actually, I listen and I really like the story so far.

LENA:

You were also the brilliant mind behind the April Fool's episode right? How did that come up?

CATOFAPOCALYPSE:

It was like, I was in the chat with Rhianna and Tezca, we were talking about how we can make our cameo roles funny and memorable. It was just something about funny accents and then Tezca said something about using a text to speech thing, you know, like Google Translate for fun. And then I thought it would be hilarious if, like, our podfic were done like that because we are lazy or something. And then the idea, just like, the idea just got developed from there.

LENA:

So let's go a little bit into your work with us as an artist. How do you pick the chapters that you want to make cover art for?

CATOFAPOCALYPSE:

Ok, so in the project, we have a summary of the chapters, so we just read and pick out the chapter that sounds like the most interesting for us to read. And then after we read that, we will make the art. Usually I only pick from the summary because, you know, I don't want to read the whole fic. And then, I mean, I pick from the summary, not that I actually read the chapter before I pick, I think that that's what I mean.

LENA:

But you read the chapter after you picked it.

CATOFAPOCALYPSE:

Yeah, usually that way.

LENA:

And what is your process for creating that cover art?

CATOFAPOCALYPSE:

Yeah. So then I have to read, right, so I have to make myself read that. Even if it's long, I have to force myself to read, because I just cannot read. But thankfully, most of the CoT chapters are not very long and I happen to pick, randomly, I happen to pick out the short, the very short chapters. So that was very lucky for me. So, I read it in like, one day, maybe. And then I will pick out a few of my favorite moments and I’ll sketch it out, then I would choose the sketch that I like and I post it into the server and I will ask Iris if there's any detail that I'm not sure about. And then I would go do the rest of the art and then finish it.

LENA:

And how long would a single chapter usually take you?

CATOFAPOCALYPSE:

This depends on how complex the idea I have for it is. So sometimes it only takes me two days, sometimes a week.

LENA:

And what would you say you like the most and least about working as an artist?

CATOFAPOCALYPSE:

Well. About my art, I like the variety of expression that I can draw, the anatomy is not the best but I am-I'm satisfied with it. But what I hate about my art is that I cannot do, like, good backgrounds and like, I cannot do the shading very well. I cannot depict the material of the objects in my shading, that is something I'm trying to learn right now.

LENA:

All right. Let's go briefly into your work as a voice actress. So when did you decide that you wanted to pick side characters to voice?

CATOFAPOCALYPSE:

Well, yeah, so at first I auditioned for one, so I just put my audition up there and then Lit said that everyone will get a small role. So I got assigned the roles of, I think it was one shopkeeper and another person. I think both are shopkeepers, they just have different titles. And recently there was the- Recently, I also voiced, I think it was Arthur. I don't remember the chapter number. What was the chapter? I think it was forty one. I think I was Arthur in chapter 41. So actually the roles are assigned to me. I didn't pick them except for Arthur, because Arthur was like, because we didn't have anyone to voice him. So I just said, let me do it.

LENA:

And what do you like about being part of the side characters?

CATOFAPOCALYPSE:

What I like is that I can contribute to the drama. So I just love listening to it, and being a part of this one. That is the best thing about it, and also I can try to do something with the characters, like I can try to understand the tone of voice or the expression that they want me to make. So it's good practice for a future when I actually do more podfic.

LENA:

Have you had characters that have long enough dialogues that you can relate to them in any certain way?

CATOFAPOCALYPSE:

No, the shopkeepers are quite short, and well, Arthur was, I think Arthur was my better acted ones because I think I am- I think he was kind of scared. So I tried to do a scared voice. So, yeah, I think the Arthur one was better, but I'm not sure I can relate to them because they only have a few lines.

LENA:

Right. So as for cover pictures, do you have a favorite cover art picture that you have drawn or a favorite by other people?

CATOFAPOCALYPSE:

Yes, I do. So my favorite cover by me is the one I did for Chapter six, the shibari one. I really like that one because of the expression in the- the idea I have for it with a mirror and reflections. And by others, I really like Grin’s cover for Chapter 15. I really like how they depict all the characters and the way they- and the composition and the way they decorate the drawing with like, flowers. And it looks really good. I cannot do like, patterns and flowers. They are really good. And also I really like all the covers Qwanderer did. Is that how you pronounce that?

LENA:

Q-Wanderer?

CATOFAPOCALYPSE:

Yeah, Qwanderer.

LENA:

Q-Wanderer.

CATOFAPOCALYPSE:

Yeah, I really like the shading on the cover that Qwanderer. They are really good. I'm trying to learn how to shade things, so they are really good- They're a really good reference when I look at them, I really like them.

LENA:

Which chapter is that one?

CATOFAPOCALYPSE:

I don't remember which ones Qwanderer did, because they did several ones.

LENA:

Oh, just like the shading in all of them, you mean.

CATOFAPOCALYPSE:

Yeah, just all the ones that they did, especially the ones by- traditional ones, like with pencils.

LENA:

All right. And finally, what are some things you've learned during this project?

CATOFAPOCALYPSE:

Okay, I learned- for the small things, I learned how- I learned more about Audacity, I learned how to do the noise reduction. I didn't understand how to do that before or how to record the system sounds. And for my art experience, I learned- I managed to learn how to do that pixelated effect when I did Chapter 24. It was very nice because I have to go and look for tutorials and like try to find what's best for cover and usually I'm very lazy, so it's actually a very good way to get me to actually learn new things. But most importantly, I learn about teamwork and the organization from watching how everyone just works together. It's also a very great feeling to work with all these amazing people, and I hope to work more on more projects with everyone.

LENA:

All right. Well, thank you for talking with us. Tell us, where can people find you online?

CATOFAPOCALYPSE:

You can find my safe for work stuff if you search catofapocalypse on Facebook, Tumblr and Twitter. For not safe for work it is bratofa. Do you want me to spell that?

LENA:

Yes, please.

CATOFAPOCALYPSE:

It is b-r-a-t-o-f-a. And you can find that on Twitter.

LENA:

All right, awesome. Thank you very much, Vivi. So this was all we had for today. Next time we'll be talking to AJfanfic, an organizer, voice actor and artist of the project. So keep your ears ready for that.

OUTRO MUSIC


	10. Interview with AJfanfic

**Interview with AJfanfic**

We are halfway through the mammoth project that is Crown of Thorns Podrama, and we've got some extra content for you all!  
Along our way, we have managed to gather an amazing team of voice actors, editors, artists, musicians, and organizers.  
This is the start of a series of interviews with the team about their experience and involvement with the Crown of Thorns Podrama.  
We're continuing our interviews with AJfanfic (Alec), who is an organiser and a voice actor with for the CoT project, playing a handful of small roles and managing the visual art portion of the project.  
A friend made him read Good Omens four years ago, and he's been a devoted fan ever since. An avid cosplayer and writer in many fandoms for seven years, this is his first year working in podfic.  
Finding more collaborative ways to be involved with fandom has long been a goal of his, and he couldn't be more excited to be part of this project.  
Alec has a background in theatre design and stage managing and is looking forward to putting those skills to use in a new forum.  
Outside of fandom, he's likely to be found knitting, drinking tea, and listening to folk music.

Love,  
The CoT Pod'rama Team

Listen - [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/7encW2M2ykbCBF3LZHNqSB) / [Anchor](https://anchor.fm/crown-of-thorns-podrama/episodes/Interview-with-AJfanfic-ejha3g)  
Listen and Download - [Archive.org](https://archive.org/details/interview-with-ajfanfic)

**Where to Find AJfanfic**  
[AO3](https://archiveofourown.org/users/AJfanfic%20) / [Tumblr](https://not-a-fucking-pogo-stick.tumblr.com/)

**Interview with AJfanfic Team**  
Hosted By - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Composer - [ Nuitarie](https://soundcloud.com/nuitarie) Chapter Artist - [CompassRose](https://outlikethat.tumblr.com/)  
Interview Editor - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Head Editor - [UnholyCrowley](https://archiveofourown.org/users/UnholyCrowley) Transcripts By - [AJ](https://archiveofourown.org/users/RainingPrince/pseuds/RainingPrince)/[Ixnael](https://archiveofourown.org/users/RainingPrince/pseuds/sPODghetti)

Length - 49:11 minutes

Question Time Stamps

00:59 Tell us a bit about yourself before we start, what do you do aside from fandom?  
04:01 You read the book 4 years ago, were you in the fandom at the time?  
05:00 Would you say the fandom has changed a lot since the show?  
06:04 How long have you been writing fic?  
07:05 How do you find the written medium different/similar from podficcing/drawing?  
12:38 When did you first find out that podfic existed?  
16:11 Have you done works in other fandoms?  
16:50 Have you gotten involved with the podfic community?  
17:16 How did you find about CoT? Had you read the fic before?  
20:11 What do you like/dislike about voice acting?  
21:54 When did you first start drawing?  
24:03 Would you say you're a visual person?  
25:28 How do you pick the chapters you want to make cover art for?  
26:56 What is your process like?  
28:16 How long does it usually take you to complete the cover art?  
29:15 What do you like the most and the least about your work as an artist?  
31:29 Could you describe what you do as an organizer?  
34:02 How did you start doing these tasks?  
36:02 What do you like the most/least about your work as an organizer?  
40:25 Is there anything about your characters that you can identify with?  
42:54 Do you have a favourite cover art that you've drawn or from other artists?  
45:56 What's something you've learned during this project?  
48:01 Where can people find you online?

Transcript

(Musical intro)

Lena:

Hello everyone, and welcome to our cast and crew Q&A!

My name is Lena, and today I have for you an interview with AJfanfic! AJfanfic, or Alec is an organizer and voice actor for the Crown of Thorns project, playing a handful of small roles and managing the visual art portion of the project.

A friend made him read Good Omens 4 years ago, and he has been a devoted fan ever since. An avid cosplayer and writer in many fandoms for 7 years, this is his first year working in podfic. Finding more collaborative ways to be involved in fandom has long been a goal of his, and he couldn’t be more excited to be part of this project.

Alec has a background in theater design and stage management, and is looking forward to putting those skills to use in a new form.

Outside of fandom he is likely to be found knitting, drinking tea, and listening to folk music.

Alec, it’s an honor to have you with us today. Tell us a bit about yourself before we start. Where are you from? What do you do aside from fandom?

Alec:

Thank you so much! It’s my pleasure to be here.

So I live sort of in the Boston area, I am a student outside of fandom. Although currently that’s all a little bit... sort of strange, what with the pandemic. Yeah, I’m sort of not doing all that much outside of fandom at the moment, but will be a student when things sort of settle down again.

Lena:

Right, what are you studying?

Alec:

I’m actually just starting college, this fall.

Lena:

Ooh!

Alec:

Or, I suppose I would be but I’m taking a gap year. I think I may actually be one of the youngest people involved with this project. So, yeah I’m not actually sure what I’m studying yet but we’ll see.

Lena:

(laughs) Alright. Any particular interest or nothing sure so far?

Alec:

I’m really interested in sort of business management, particularly entrepreneurship. I think one day I’d love to have my own small business. That’s sort of where we’re heading, but maybe some writing too, we’ll see.

Lena:

Alright, business with writing on the side.

Alec:

Mhm!

Lena:

And, how about fandom then? How did you first land in fandom?

Alec:

I first got involved in fandom like, 7 or 8 years ago. I started with Marvel when the first Avengers movies came out. I managed to read I think, just sort of in that first year after Avengers came out, every fic on Archive of Our Own with Loki tagged as a character.

Lena:

(laughs) Oh my god.

Alec:

Yeah, it became sort of a challenge to myself. Some of them were… really not worth the time it took but I ended up feeling quite accomplished in a strange sort of way.

So that’s sort of where I started, with fandom. I’ve been sort of… through so many different fandoms since then. I was onboard with SuperWhoLock when that was sort of at its height. I’ve been into DC as well as Marvel, I did some anime, all kinds of stuff. Right now I think I’m most involved with Good Omens, obviously, uhm… a bit of Witcher. I’m working on another project with Witcher actually right now.

Lena:

Oh, cool!

Alec:

Yeah! It’s very exciting. And I’ve- I think for nostalgia reasons have recently gotten back into Harry Potter as well.

Lena:

Awesome. So you read the book for Good Omens 4 years ago. Were you in the Good Omens fandom at that time?

Alec:

Yeah I think I was really sort of involved with book Good Omens fandom. I was at that time just starting High School and a couple of my friends had read it and we all sort of, it was almost like, an unofficial book club sort of thing where you know- my best friend was really excited about the book and she got me to read it, and like- the second we finished reading it we were on AO3 sending each other fics, trolling through the tumblr tags.

So, you know, I can’t say I’ve been active in Good Omens since I read the book, but definitely the first year, year and a half after I read it. And then again sort of from just before the show came out up to now I’ve been pretty active.

Lena:

Right. And would you say the fandom has changed a lot since the show?

Alec:

Definitely. I’m personally still really fond of Book Omens, which is part of why I was really excited to hear about this project. But I’ve definitely noticed there’s a large shift towards Show Omens based content, lots of artists sort of sticking with just the Sheen and Tennant depictions of the characters. Which I think are completely lovely and I love the art, I love the actors but I think yeah it has really been quite a shift.

Most of my actual work with -in terms of actual producing content for Good Omens- has sort of come since the show as well, so I’d say most of my fic for Good Omens sort of is Show Omens fic? But I think I started with Book Omens so I’ll always have a deep fondness for that older half of the fandom as well.

Lena:

Right. So you also write fics, how long have you been writing fic?

Alec:

I’ve been writing fic since I first got involved with fandom back in like, Middle School. Although I admit some of those fics are perhaps orphaned and no longer associated with my Archive account. But I’d say I’ve sort of been- fic is sort of where I find my home in fandom. It’s the area I actually most consistently actually produce work in. And I think I’ve sort of been writing consistently since I got involved. Although admittedly it's sort of across a really wide and shifting range of fandoms. There's a number of sort of long term projects or series that sort of got abandoned when they... my love for that particular fandom did not last long enough to see them through to their completion.

Lena:

Yeah. And how do you find the written medium different or similar, I suppose, from podficcing and/or drawing because you're also an artist?

Alec:

I think for me there's sort of two really big differences between podfic and just written work. I think, first off, as a creator, obviously with podfic, for the most part, you're not working with your own words, you're not working with your own sort of completely unique take on that character. So I think I've always found it really interesting whether I'm doing the podfic or I'm sort of consuming someone else's podfic, how those different interpretations and presentations of a character will blend together where you have obviously your canon source material, but you also have both the original writer and your voice actor sort of contributing to that final presentation of the character that you're hearing, which I think is always sort of really fun. I know I love to read a fic and also listen to the podfic versions of it and sort of just feel how all of those different interpretations come together.

And of course, I also find that to be part of what's really fun about making my own podfics, even though I'm quite new to it, and I admit inexpert, but that sort of acting background to the already transformative work I think is really fun and really interesting.

I think the other thing that I really sort of have come to appreciate- I don't know if I properly appreciated it before getting involved with Crown of Thorns and sort of the wide world of podfic that came along with it- is just how much more production work goes into a well done podfic as opposed to just like a well done fic. Like I've worked with betas, sometimes multiple betas; I'm doing a number of big bangs and I'll work with an artist. But for me at least, writing a fic is like mostly solitary, and it's pretty much just: You have the idea. Maybe you write out an outline and then you just kind of sit down and you write it.

But for a podfic like there's, you have to find a script or you write your script, and you do the voice acting and you do the editing, and sometimes you're doing music or you're doing cover art. And whether that's all done by the same person or whether that's a team pulling something together, I think just the number of other pieces beyond the pure story itself that get involved in podfic; I think it's been a really interesting sort of thing to get a look at.

Lena:

Mhm. And how about drawing and creating visual art? How do you find that part of being creative similar or different from the written medium?

Alec:

I think when it comes to sort of visual art, I am perhaps even more of a novice than I am when it comes to podfic. Particularly sort of like two-dimensional visual art. If I could say I have experience in anything, it's sort of collage and sculpture stuff.

But I think it's different for me in that the expression of an idea in words for me has always been much more fluid. It's come much more easily, as opposed to the expression of that same idea visually I often find to be sort of much more of a process of... “How do I get the material to express what I'm trying to, and then how do I do that with my skill level in it?” And I find I also- this is sort of both a plus and a minus: the level of interpretation, I think on the consumer/reader/viewer's part is I feel different with visual art and sort of visual works as opposed to a written work. Like obviously there's a range of interpretation when it comes to visual and written work, but I think the spectrum of interpretation and response from a visual work is is much greater than a written work, which I think is sort of... it's fun and exciting, but also a little bit scary because I can be fairly sure that what I've written will be seen how I had originally intended it. But it's oftentimes, again sort of both from the.. like my skill level, my comfort with the medium and the viewer's interpretation, I'm always a little bit less confident in the interpretation of my visual work. So it's you know, it's an exciting, if at times frightening difference.

Lena:

Right? The written medium is a lot more guided in that sense that you will be able to anticipate what the reader is going to get from it.

Alec:

Exactly.

Lena:

I do. Yeah, I get that. And about podfic then. When did you first find out that podfic existed? How was it?

Alec:

I think… I'm not actually sure when I first discovered podfic. I think it was sort of a- I've been peripherally aware of it as long as I've been involved with fandom. It was just like, “Oh yeah, people will make audiobooks of fics and that's pretty neat but that's not something I'm interested in doing.” And for the most part if I was reading fic it was like on my commute or in between doing other things that I was supposed to be focused on online and stuff. So there was lots of picking it up and putting it down. And I never really felt like podfic worked with what I was- with how I consumed fic, so I was never terribly involved in it.

I think the first podfic that I actually listened to and that really sort of properly got me excited about it was a Supernatural podfic like four or five years ago. I forget exactly what it was called, but it was a Bobby and... (I almost said Crow-lee, but it's Cr-owl-ee if you're in the Supernatural world)

Lena:

Right.

Alec:

...fic in which Crowley was blinded in some demonic attack and it was sort of like the process of recovery, and the two of them ending up as a couple of grumpy old men living in a junkyard. But I think sort of that fic with like the music and the voice acting and everything in it, I think really got me excited about podfic in a way that I hadn't been before.

At that time I think I still wasn't involved in producing it and I wasn't confident enough in my skills, nor did I really have the sort of set up that I felt like I’d need if I wanted to produce something of a quality I could be proud of.

But yeah, that was sort of the start of it for me, I think Good Omens was actually the first thing that I personally podficced. I think because I found a fic that was just... so exciting to me! I think I'm personally more comfortable podficcing things that are almost more of a storytelling fashion/style than like a novelistic style. Stuff that tends to have less dialogue in which, like, I don't have to portray multiple characters. If I'm lucky, I don't actually have to portray any of them at all. But sort of an extended narration storytelling style of fic is sort of what I gravitate towards in podfic. And I just found something in Good Omens and I was like, “you know what, this is it. I'm gonna give it a shot.”

So that was “I Love My Lover With A--” by dictionarywrites.

Lena:

All right.

Alec:

That was my first.

Lena:

Mm hmm. Awesome. So I see that you've done podfic for Good Omens since finding out about podfic and now you're involved with Crown of Thorns. Have you also done any other podfic in other fandoms? I think you said something about The Witcher.

Alec:

Yeah, no, I haven't actually podficced in any other fandoms yet. I think I just haven't quite got around to it. I would love to do some sort of other work in other fandoms, maybe Witcher maybe. Who knows, whatever I'll be madly obsessed with next. The Witcher work I'm doing right now, it's actually sort of an art organization project from my end of it rather than podfic.

Lena:

I see. So have you gotten involved with the podfic community at all or not yet?

Alec:

Not really beyond the sort of little Crown of Thorns community. I think I would love to reach out. I've heard good things about a server called Podfichat but haven't really spent much time there myself.

Lena:

Well, maybe for the future then. Moving on a little onto Crown of Thorns: How do you find out about it? Have you read the fic before?

Alec:

I haven't actually read the fic before, but it had been on my marked for later list on Archive (Of Our Own) for quite a while at that point. I think I was a little bit intimidated by the length. I'd read the first few chapters and I knew it was something that I really loved and I really wanted to find the time to come back to. But I hadn’t quite yet.

I got involved, and I heard about the project actually, because on tumblr I got a message. This was, I think, like November of last year from... I think it was Vivi, who was an artist involved with the project reaching out about- sort of just- a blanket message “To everyone we could find on Archive Of Our Own who has produced good omens podfic” and “Would you consider auditioning and joining the Crown of Thorns team?” I thought it was really exciting. I sat down and I read the whole fic over like a weekend and I just didn't sleep and powered through the whole thing. And I said, yes, I would absolutely love to audition and sort of find a space on that team.

Lena:

And did you audition for a particular character?

Alec:

Sort of? It was more auditioning for a particular size of role. I think I knew I wanted to be involved, and I knew I wanted to try voice acting for a project like this, but I wasn't and sort of remain not quite confident enough to put myself forward for one of the main roles. So I think like Death or Agnes, or one of the characters that sort of appeared maybe once or twice had a handful of lines. Which- I ended up with a sort of handful of small roles. I think I have one line as William Shakespeare, a couple as the taxi driver who takes Uriel and Raphael up to the cottage for the first time, and the receptionist in the first chapter.

So I think I was quite excited about it, just sort of in the sense that I had never really done collaborative work in fandom. I'd always thought it was really cool that people did these big projects, but I hadn't been involved in one. It was very much of a “I'm just happy to be here” sense. I think I was quite pleased also to get a bit(big?) part in the first chapter. I thought that was- that's quite nice.

Lena:

Right, of course. So what would you say you like best about voice acting or is there anything you dislike about it?

Alec:

Well I think the thing I like least is listening to myself. Editing my own work is, I think, such a pain because I hate having to go back and listen to my own voice over and over again. But I think the thing that I probably like the most, particularly when you have -sort of- long narration, is figuring out the sort of unique voice of each... patch of- each piece of narration. Like every fic, and every writer will have their own sort of style. And even if your narrator isn't a character or isn't personified in any way, there is still a sort of personality that comes through in your style of narration. So I think figuring out how to set those tones apart has always been really fun for me.

I think that carried over well to having sort of a series of small parts with Crown of Thorns and figuring out... most of the, like- none of the characters I voiced really have a personality because they're sort of a window dressing type of character, but finding the little ways in which they're distinct from each other is quite fun. And I think Iris's writing is really quite lovely and fluid and well detailed, which makes that all the more exciting.

Lena:

Well, moving onto your work as an artist, when did you first start drawing? You've mentioned that you're more used to sculpture and collage, but you also have done at least one drawn picture for the project haven’t you?

Alec:

Yeah. The handful of covers I've contributed to the project are sort of all over the spectrum of medium. I've done amateurish watercolor, I've done mosaic, I did a collage, and I did one sort of ink drawing on a scrap of script. So I think I've never really sort of sat down to draw with the intent, or at least I haven't often sat down with the intent of drawing. Rather, I draw in order to facilitate other projects, whether that's like costume design or marking out some sort of plan for a mosaic or a collage or something of the sort. And I, of course, always get very frustrated when someone can't tell what it is that my drawing is supposed to be conveying. So it was honestly, I think, for sort of costume design purposes and working with the team there that I really put in a bit of effort to learn how to draw.

Lena:

Right. That reminds me of The Little Prince. I don't know if you've read The Little Prince, but there is a scene where the narrator is talking about when he was a child, he would draw a boa, a sort of snake, I think it's called a boa in English as well. And he would draw it having eaten an elephant. But the boa would be- you couldn't see the elephant inside the boa, so he would talk about how adults could never understand what his drawing was and they would all say, oh, it sort of looks like a hat. And he would get really frustrated that no one could tell that it was a boa.

Alec:

Yup. That's pretty much my motivation for my slowly improving drawing skills.

Lena:

So would you say, you've always been sort of a visual kind of person?

Alec:

I think... Hmm. I'm going to say yes, but perhaps in a somewhat unconventional way. I think I have always- every project does start with sort of a very clear visualization. I think most of my fic and my written work is sort of like an attempt to see if I can put a scene that sort of appeared to me in full cinematic style into words on a page.

But I think conversely as well, in a sort of strange way, most of my work that ends up being a visual final format significantly incorporates words and text into it. I think both of my favorites of the covers I've created sort of significantly play with the idea of sort of text as a visual representation of something beyond just like the words on the page. So I think I've always really enjoyed that interplay of text and words and language with the sort of visual medium.

Lena:

Mhm, and does that play in how you pick your chapters? The ones that you want to make cover art for?

Alec:

It definitely does. I think when I was just setting up the whole cover art stuff there was one chapter in particular that… I jumped on from the beginning. I knew I had to have it. Which is the one in which Aziraphale -and inadvertently Cowley- Audition for the Tempest. Which- It's one of my favorite plays. I’m kind of obnoxiously a theatre kid, but I really love that work, and I think I was I was really excited about the idea of coming up with some visual representation, not just of the moment between the characters that you're seeing in the fic, but also tying that back in a way that I think Iris did really beautifully in that moment to the sort of more archetypal relationships that you see in The Tempest itself, and I think I really wanted a chance to try to put together Aziraphale and Crowley and their interaction with the visuals of The Tempest and particularly of the literal text that they read to each other in that scene.

Lena:

And so, once to pick the chapters that you want to make cover for, what is the process like for creating that cover art?

Alec:

I think it sort of varies. For some of them, I've had kind of an immediate concept of like... There's this visual or this idea that I want to convey, and then the process is figuring out how best to go about that. What medium do I want to work with? What sort of surrounding features will best convey what I'm going for?

And then some of them, it's been more of a process of sitting with the chapter. Sort of thinking about not only just what's happening, what's the emotion? Where is the scene going? But thinking about how does that- like what visual- what tiny moment of this scene can I use to try to capture that?

So for some of them it’s been really quick, like, “Oh, this is my symbol for the scene.” And in others, it's been much more of a long process of sort of teasing it out.

Lena:

Yeah, and then once you figure out the medium and how you want to work with it, how long would you say it usually takes you to complete the cover art?

Alec:

I would say for the most part, usually... a weekend. I think the one exception being the first cover I did, which, while I was quite pleased with it, still didn't quite live up to my lofty aspirations with it. Because in addition to doing that, it was a mosaic piece, but I sort of made the tiles myself for that one. So that was a longer process, just in the sense that I sort of had to wait between all of the firings and the glueing and the grouting. So that one took a little bit longer.

Lena:

Right. That's the cover for Chapter 11, yes?

Alec:

Yes. Yep!

Lena:

Right. So what would you say then that you like the most, and the least, about your work as an artist?

Alec:

Hmm. I think probably the thing that I like the most is the fact that I have- it's those moments where a detail comes to me quite clearly and then I have to sort of play with it and tease it and shape it until it's something that I can actually produce as a full piece rather than just as like a single small concept. So I think sort of that process of going from like the “Aha!” moment of like “My symbol will be two intertwined peach roses” to like, “OK, so how do I actually get that to present itself? How do I frame that? What are the things that I want to surround that image with?” I think that from the “Aha!” moment there to the “And now I have a full picture of what to do with that”, I think is a very fun process for me.

Which I think is probably also why my favorite mediums to work in are ceramics or collage, because it ends up being like a very physical process of I cut out all my pieces and then I move them around and I play with them when I flip them upside down. And it's almost like constructing a puzzle in that way. I think that's... that part is quite fun.

I think my least favorite part is gluing them down once I've had to say I'm done playing, this is it. This is a finished piece. I think that's probably my least favorite. Means the game is over and I have to commit to saying this is as close to the original inception as we're going to get it. So that sort of finality is, I think, my least favorite part.

Lena:

Right, fair enough. So moving on to your work as an organizer, could you describe a little what it is you do?

Alec:

I think as an organizer is probably where I've spent most of my time and most of my effort with this project. I think it honestly might be my favorite part of having worked on it- just out of all the buckets I've dipped into.

So I mostly work with the visual artists, sort of keeping track of all of the deadlines, sending all the reminders both for the cover art and whatever other art projects happen to be happening. But also for the voice acting, I send out deadlines and reminders for those as well. But yeah, sort of in visual art, it's sort of maintaining records of what needs to be done and who's supposed to be responsible for doing it; making sure that someone is in charge of each chapter art and that if deadlines are missed, new deadlines are set.

I think we're hopefully going to be putting together a zine as well. So I think that's going to be sort of significantly in my wheelhouse once the ball starts rolling on that one as well, which I'm quite looking forward to.

Lena:

Yeah, and you're also involved partially with the interviews as well.

Alec:

Yes, yeah. I've been doing the transcripts for all the interviews, which is also super fun.

Lena:

And aren’t you in the social media tag? Role sorry, the social media role?

Alec:

Yeah, yeah, I do a bit of that. Obviously I'm nowhere near involved in it as much as you or perhaps Rhi are. But I've been putting together the cast and crew profile spotlights that we've been putting up on the Tumblr and in the past every now and then I've sort of stepped in to lend a hand when someone's busy or there are too many things happening all at once. So I'm sort of the back up social media on that one.

Lena:

Very much needed. So, yeah, you're working on tumblr, mostly yeah?

Alec:

Yep, tumblr is definitely sort of the social media platform I spend the most time on. That's where I felt I'd be most useful.

Lena:

Fair enough. And how do you come across each of these? How do you start doing them? Because I imagine you didn't pick them up all at once.

Alec:

I'm very much the kind of person where when someone says like, “Oh, we should probably have someone doing this”, I'll say “I'll do it!” sort of whatever it happens to be or however many things there are already going on. Which I think is sort of how I ended up being the sort of artist point person, because we sort of went from like, “Oh, someone should be sending out deadlines and reminders.” And I said, “I'll do it.” And then it was like, when we were sort of just throwing around ideas at the very beginning of the project about like, what do we want to do for covers? Back when Compass was putting together our beautiful music album cover and our logo and all of that, we were sort of discussing them like, what do we want to do for the covers? How much art do we want involved in this, do we think there's interest? And it was sort of at that meeting where I just put up my hand and said I'd be happy to take point on organizing the artists, and I think that we can- I think we do have enough interest to actually create a new art piece for every single chapter cover.

And so then the ball sort of kept rolling and picked up speed and as new things have come up with artists like the mentions of the zine, or random other little things. I sort of just got in the habit of saying, like, well, I'm already doing the artist stuff, I might as well handle that, too. Yeah. So sort- of sort of made myself a little position there.

Lena:

Fair enough, fair enough. And what do you like the most and the least about them? Do you have a favorite thing that you do for organizing? Do you have a least favorite?

Alec:

I think my favorite thing with organizing is probably... I guess there's two things, one, which is sort of bigger and one which is quite small and it's- I really do love being involved in the sort of behind-the-scenes of everything, having pulled some of those strings, having watched them get pulled. And being able to sort of see the whole project come together from the outside; and just sort of knowing that I've been able to play a part in facilitating that and making that happen. And really in just helping showcase the work of so many brilliant artists and voice actors and editors and everyone else. I think I'm really quite happy and quite proud to have been able to help. Help facilitate the sharing of that and just getting to help show off how incredible so many of these people we're working with are.

I think I also really sort of on a more interpersonal level, have really enjoyed the process of getting to know all the other organizers and all the artists and working with them when things hit a snag or stuff gets in the way of deadlines and sort of working to make sure that, like, whatever is happening -and so much has been happening this past year!- that everyone feels like we are part of a team and everyone is supported and being able to make that work, I think is definitely my favorite part of organizing.

I think as a least favorite part, it's probably the number of reminders I have had to set myself to send out the reminders because we do a two week, a one week, and “it's due today”, deadline for all of the art. And then, of course, follow ups on anything that doesn't meet deadlines. And then for voice acting, I do a one week, a two day, and “it's due today” for every chapter. Which ends up being just, quite a few things on my Google calendar. And it often gets to be a bit of a mess. Occasionally I will forget one or I'll send one out late. And I hate having to be like, “oh, sorry, this was meant to go out yesterday, but it's 3:00 a.m. so here's the reminder now.” So I think that's sort of my least favorite thing.

Lena:

I remember when- before we started posting the first chapter, we sort of came to an agreement that we would need reminders as well for the social media team. And I remember just being like, just how many reminders is he going to send? And I just sort of went like, “hey, I can take this if you want.”

Alec:

And I very much appreciate it

Lena:

Because I was like “art, and voice actors, and now posting? Like, no, no, that's too many reminders for a single person.”

Alec:

You have saved my sanity. Yeah.

Lena:

Yeah, I mean, I don't use Google Calendar as much because I somehow never figured out how to make the notifications work on my phone, and then I miss them. Like I have a Google calendar set up, it just doesn't show up on my notifications and I'm too lazy to figure it out. So I have a paper calendar. It's already crammed with the reminders only for the social media. I can't even imagine how many reminders to myself for everything.

Alec:

Yeah, it's quite a lot. It's satisfying, though, because then I get to constantly be sending out messages. And so I feel like I'm very much in the middle of things, even if I'm not doing anything terribly exciting. At least I have something I'm doing. But yeah, it can be quite a lot sometimes.

Lena:

So let's move on to a few final questions that I have. Well, I suppose after- we've already talked about this a little bit, but since your characters have so few lines, is there anything about them that you can identify with?

Alec:

I think I really like the one line that I have as Shakespeare. It's from- I'm forgetting the exact line, but it's from a production of Hamlet and I remember that I really love that chapter and particularly... Just the sort of tiny bit character of Shakespeare in it, because it's sort of.. in that scene, it's like he's grieving. He's lost someone who was truly important to him. And I think just the way in which the character of Shakespeare in that scene has tied so many of his emotions about what's going on in his life to just this one line that he has in his production of Hamlet. I think I really sort of loved that. And I loved trying to find the right way to deliver that line, because I think honestly, quite a bit of my work as a writer is kind of adjacent to that.

It's the looking at the world and looking at my life and figuring out like, “OK, so all of this is so much. How do I put it in the simplest terms? How do I condense it, and how do I give it to another character to communicate through them to my reader what is going on, what this emotion is?” And so I think just sort of that little moment of Shakespeare projecting onto his character, Horatio, I think I quite liked as a little character moment for him. But also something I connect with as an author who perhaps does a lot of projecting onto my own characters.

Lena:

Yeah, well, I can relate. There is a little piece of the writer in every character, so it's not our entire self into a character. But if we didn't relate to them, at least a tiny bit, I think it would come off kind of flat. So,

Alec:

Yeah, exactly.

Lena:

So, yeah, I agree. So as an artist, do you have a favorite cover art picture that you've drawn or that any other artist has drawn?

Alec:

Ooh, that's a good question. I think- of my pieces, I think my favorite is either the one I did for The Tempest chapter, which was just a photograph of my copy of The Tempest from the scene that the two of them read, sort of marked up in just very simple ink drawings of hands and magic and stars. Which I think I really both had a lot of fun doing, and I think I really liked because of its simplicity and because of the sort of very clear ways that it was relating to the text, and sort of trying to convey the same message as that scene was through a different lens. I think I also had a lot of fun doing the holika twice burned, which is, I think Chapter thirty-something cover.

Lena:

Lemme find it... The first one was twenty five. And I think this is Chapter 30, actually.

Alec:

Chapter 30. There we go. I think that was really fun because it was sort of- very collage, lots of mediums. And again, I got to have that sort of interplay of text and visual representation of sort of what the characters are saying and feeling. And I think I managed to find a parallel but different angle on what Iris was conveying through the text; which was always, you know, always what you'd hope for when you're illustrating something.

I think my favorite of the chapter covers that other people have done was either I think Qwanderer's cover for Chapter twenty-nine, which is really quite beautiful, it's super delicate, super detailed. It's the tracking device that Gabriel and Asmodai used to find Aziraphale and Crowley. And I think it was just such a small detail, so sort of lovingly and magically rendered that it really felt like it captured that celestial, arcane energy of the way it was described in the text. I think I also just always loved Grin’s, watercolors with the detail and the personality that all of the characters in those pieces convey.

Lena:

All right. And then finally, what's something you've learned during this project, either as a voice actor, artist, organizer, all of them.

Alec:

I think the most important thing I have learned is: You can trust your team and you can rely on your team, and that's not weakness. That's not not living up to whatever you could theoretically be living up to. That, like you have a team, you're part of the team for a reason because no one person can do everything. And honestly, many things are better when they're subdivided, they're supported, they're being done by the people who are most passionate and best suited for that task.

And I think it's been a really spectacular experience that I've been truly lucky to have to get to work with a team that is so talented and is so dedicated to making Crown of Thorns come alive and to seeing this project through. Like not even just in what was originally promised: a fully voice acted pod’rama, -which would be an amazing accomplishment in and of itself. But to have taken that and said, “Oh, but we can also do challenges, and we can also do interviews, and we can also have all of this art, and celebrate these events, and put together a zine, and here's a whole album of music!” I think it's been really wonderful to get to work with a team that's so excited and so dedicated to a project. And just sort of learning to trust that team to go above and beyond the things that we expect and that we're asking for. I think it's been really great. I've learned a lot from everyone I've gotten a chance to work with.

Lena:

Well, thank you so much for talking with us, Alec, and tell us, where can people find you online?

Alec:

So I am AJfanfic on Archive Of Our Own. On tumblr I am so many things, but I'm most reliably found at not-a fucking-pogo-stick with dashes between the words. That's sort of it. Like I said, I'm not terribly involved with most social media.

Lena:

Alright. Well, thank you so much for talking to us.

(Outro music fades in in the background)

Alec:

Thank you so much. It’s been my pleasure.

Lena:

So this was all we had for today. Next time we'll be talking with Nuitarie, or Moony, the composer and musical director on the project. So keep your ears ready for that.

(Music gets louder for a few seconds then ends)


	11. Interview with Nuitarie

**Interview with Nuitarie**

We are halfway through the mammoth project that is Crown of Thorns Podrama, and we've got some extra content for you all!  
Along our way, we have managed to gather an amazing team of voice actors, editors, artists, musicians, and organizers.  
This is the start of a series of interviews with the team about their experience and involvement with the Crown of Thorns Podrama.  
We're continuing our interviews with Nuitarie (known on the project as Moony) who is a composer for the CoT project, creating music to accompany the narration.  
They have been a Good Omens fan since their first read in their teenage years but got their interest rekindled by the TV series.  
They fell utterly in love with Crown of Thorns in a heartbeat, devouring it through and through.  
They work as a singer, a composer and a choir and wind band director in France and are on the lookout for new projects and collaborations!

Love,  
The CoT Pod'rama Team

Listen - [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/7fHdEVqGAZM3yBaormuE9h) / [Anchor](https://anchor.fm/crown-of-thorns-podrama/episodes/Interview-with-Nuitarie-ejt8fh)  
Listen and Download - [Archive.org](https://archive.org/details/interview-with-nuitarie)

**Where to Find Nuitarie**  
[AO3](https://archiveofourown.org/users/Luninarie/pseuds/Luninarie) / [Soundcloud](https://soundcloud.com/nuitarie) / [Tumblr](https://nuitarius.tumblr.com) / [Website](https://www.nuitarie.eu)

**Interview with Nuitarie Team**  
Hosted By - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Composer - [ Nuitarie](https://soundcloud.com/nuitarie) Chapter Artist - [CompassRose](https://outlikethat.tumblr.com/)  
Interview Editor - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Head Editor - [UnholyCrowley](https://archiveofourown.org/users/UnholyCrowley) Transcripts By - [AJfanfic](https://archiveofourown.org/users/ajfanfic)

Length - 1:18:57 minutes

Question Time Stamps

00:00:10 Introduction: tell us a bit about yourself, where are you from, what do you do aside from fandom?  
00:01:33 How did you first get into fandom?  
00:02:23 Were you in the good omens fandom at the time?  
00:02:53 Have you ever written fic/done art?  
00:03:45 Did you ever create music for fandom?  
00:04:51 How have you found all these creative approaches different/similar?  
00:05:52 When did you find out podfic existed?  
00:06:45 Have you since been interested in making podfic yourself?  
00:09:00 How did you find out about CoT?  
00:10:49 Did you consider auditioning or did you know from the beginning that you wanted to make music?  
00:12:21 What small roles have you played?  
00:13:47 How did you start your music career?  
00:15:39 What was your career path before music?  
00:16:53 Was your family supportive of that change?  
00:18:07 What would you tell a young musician considering a similar career path or career change?  
00:20:14 Have you been to the conservatory?  
00:21:02 What instruments do you play?  
00:22:19 Is there a big community for making music in fandom?  
00:24:51 What would you tell a fandom musician thinking of starting to create fan-music?  
00:25:58 Who decided, and how was it decided, how many music pieces you would create?  
00:30:01 How come there are chapters with the same ending song?  
00:31:21 How did the April Fool's music come about?  
00:33:44 Do you have a general process when you begin composing a new piece?  
00:36:12 Are there any instruments you favour while composing?  
00:38:37 At which stage do you decide which type of measure, signature, or which key you're going to use?  
00:42:22 How long would it take you to create a new piece?  
00:43:19 Do you think there are different expectations for music than for, say, fanfic?  
00:46:04 Do you think this is different in instrumental music versus music with lyrics?  
00:49:58 What do you think could be done to encourage enjoying music without being too quick to judge it?  
00:52:01 Do you think fandom could provide a space for young musicians to learn their craft as it does for writing or visual art?  
00:55:13 Do you have any resources you would like to share for creating music?  
01:00:10 What do you like the most and the least about your work as a musician?  
01:02:51 How is the music industry coping with the current situation?  
01:05:18 Do you have a favourite piece that you have created for this project?  
01:10:43 Do I have a favourite piece?  
01:13:35 What is one thing you've learned during this project?  
01:17:32 Tell us, where can people find you online?

Transcript

INTRO MUSIC

LENA:

Hello, everyone, and welcome to our cast and crew Q&A. My name is Lena, and today I have for you an interview with Nuitarie. Nuitarie, also known on the project as Moony is the composer for the Crown of Thorns project, creating music to accompany the narration. She has been a Good Omens fan since her first read in her teenage years, but got her interest rekindled by the TV series. She felt utterly in love with Crown of Thorns in a heartbeat, devouring it through and through. She works as a singer, composer, and choir and wind band director in France and is on the lookout for new projects and collaborations. Moony, it's an honor to have you with us today. Tell us a bit about yourself before we start. Where are you from and what do you do aside from fandom?

NUITARIE:

Well, thank you for having me. I'm very honored to speak to you today. I'm from France. I live in the eastern part of the country, right next to the German and Swiss border. And I'm a singer. I'm a singing teacher, a choir director, as you said, and wind band director as well. And I'm a composer - duh [laughs] - and I'm to administer a small music school in a few days.

LENA:

Wow, that's very impressive.

NUITARIE:

It's a lot of jobs, and not a lot of money.

LENA:

And it's very, very impressive. I'm going to ask you a bit more about that in a minute. But let's start with how you got into fandom. Do you remember when you first started in fandom?

NUITARIE:

Oh, wow. I think as a child, I began writing stories about Ocarina of Time, the Legend of Zelda video game that got out, like, in ‘98 or something. And as a teenager, I read fan fiction from the Dragon Lance fandom, as well as Forgotten Realms. These are Dungeons and Dragons novelizations. I don't know if anybody but me knows them. But anyway, yeah, I mostly read some fiction as a teenager and wrote a bit for The Legend of Zelda and- but yeah, that's how I got into fandom.

LENA:

And you told us in your bio that you read the book as a teen. Were you in the Good Omens fandom at the time?

NUITARIE:

I read it like in high school, I think, and I wasn't so much into fandom, like, I read the novel, I enjoyed it, I maybe read a couple of fanfictions back then, but I kind of forgot about it. So I was not active into that fandom.

LENA:

And have you ever written any fic or done any art for fandom yourself?

NUITARIE:

Well, yes, I did write fanfiction for the Legend of Zelda, a bit for Forgotten Realms as well. But for a long time I was just, you know, a consumer of fandom, like there was a movie, a series, a book, something that I enjoyed, and I was like, oh, I like that. Maybe there's fanfiction of it. And I would just rush onto fan fiction dot net or, well, now AO3 just to check out, if people had written or made art about that series or that film, that book, that I enjoyed. So mostly just as a reader and not so much as a creator.

LENA:

Uh huh. And what about music? Did you ever create music for a fandom project or a fic or something?

NUITARIE:

Actually, it's quite new. I think the first music I did for fandom was, uh, for a collaboration I did with someone in the Marvel movies fandom. Someone offered to do collabs on a fanfiction. And as I was, you know, signed up in the event I said, OK, I can write and mostly I can do music. And that person was very enthusiastic about this. So I composed- I composed the piece and she wrote the story based on what the music inspired her. So, yeah, that's how it got- that's how I got into music and fandom, like, OK, I can actually do what I do in fandom and not necessarily write but make music.

LENA:

Awesome. And how have you found different the- all of these kinds of creative projects that you can do, so writing or making music, is it different? Very, very different for you? Or is it similar?

NUITARIE:

Do you mean writing and creating music? Yeah, it's very, very different. I mean, writing, I can- I can write a story and being quite satisfied, satisfied with it and just post it and say, OK, I wrote something and whatever happens with it, I'm going to be OK with that. But creating music is much more personal. When I put a piece of music up there and- I didn't not learned yet how to distance myself from what I do in music. So it's much more personal and I'm very anxious about how people are going to receive my music.

LENA:

Right. Fair enough. And what about podfic? How- when did you find out it existed to begin with?

NUITARIE:

I did not. I mean, I saw like on AO3, when when you browse through the pages, I saw that some fics had podfic in brackets written on them, but I did not investigate what was going on. And at some point, I think I stumbled upon one and I am not really into audiobooks. So the product didn't really interest me and was like, oh, OK, people are doing audiobooks with fanfiction. I guess that that's cool, but I'm not interested. So, yeah, that's what I got into. That was my first point of entry with podfic, like that does exist. I'm not so interested.

LENA:

And have you since gained an interest in making podfic yourself or is it just something that’s there in the fringe of your knowledge?

NUITARIE:

No, actually I'm now more interested and the thing is I'm very- How can I say that, I'm very peculiar about audio quality. Like if I listen to a podcast, a podfic, or an audiobook, the sound has to be pristine, like I have to not be distracted by all your quirks or strange sounds. It has to be very, very neat. And I find that some podfics that I listen to don't have that extra quality that I am searching for. So if this sound is a bit bad, I'm not going to listen to that. So now I'm still- I don't have lost that attitude. I'm still a bit picky about that. But I guess that now I'm more interested and I'm more interested by people who have a creative way of doing podfic, that people are going to integrate sound design, music, more active voice acting. If it's just reading through and through, I'm not very... well, I guess, I mean, it's OK and people enjoy it, but I won’t, so.

LENA

Yeah yeah, fair enough. I find it interesting, because it reminds me of when people who enjoy reading very, very much find fanfic that is written by people who are just starting or maybe like, have never written before or have never been writing critiqued. They find that fanfic and they go like, oh, this is not good. I don't enjoy fanfic. And I find it interesting, since you're a musician that you go, oh, I don't like the sound, so I'm just not going to listen to anything.

NUITARIE:

Yeah, well, you know, we can all be snobs sometimes.

LENA:

No, that's fine. That's fine. I just find it really interesting, the comparison.

NUITARIE:

Oh yes, indeed.

LENA:

So how did you find out about Crown of Thorns if you're not- if you were not into podfic at the time?

NUITARIE:

Ok, so I read the fanfiction around the time that the series came out. I'm a bit of a fandom butterfly. So when the news about the series coming out got out, when the word got out on Tumblr, I was like, oh, series, that's great, let's watch it. And I watched it and enjoyed it. And I was like, oh, let's read some fan fiction now. And that's how I found Crown of Thorns. And as I said in my bio, I just read it and devoured it. I think I've read it in like two sittings. I couldn't stop, I read through the night. It was intense. And I heard about the podfic being made by the boost that Neil Gaiman made on Tumblr.

LENA:

Oh, wow. Yeah, I remember that.

NUITARIE:

Yeah. And suddenly there was a lot of enthusiasm about this project. And so I just saw, yeah, we’re looking for voice actors to do this podfic of Crown of Thorns. And I was like, I really enjoyed this story. So I wanted to get involved, but I was very, very conscious about my English accent because it's a bit incoherent. And I was like, I'm not going to be any good at voice acting because my accent changes from one day to the other. But I still want to be involved, so that's how I got into the- well, the project. Just, eh, that seems cool, I want to participate in what you're doing.

LENA:

Right. So did you consider auditioning at all or did you know from the beginning that you wanted to make music?

NUITARIE:

Actually, I clicked on the audition link and saw the form and was immediately discouraged, like, no, let's not do that. And I wondered what good could I be in that project? What could I do as a creator? I can't draw to save my life. So I was like, but Moony, listen, you're a bit silly. You compose as a living. Let's just propose composing for the podcast. Maybe they don't have music yet. And I was sincerely convinced that the project already had music planned. I really thought that it had all been, you know, stuff had already been planned out and I was just like going to have to stumble into that. And people were politely going to tell me, yeah, that's very nice, but that's OK, we settled and I was really amazed that- I think it's Lit who answered, we don't have music yet, so you're welcome. And yeah, I was really surprised that the music was not yet, yeah, how would you say that…

LENA:

Decided?

NUITARIE:

Yeah. Exactly.

LENA:

Or taken care of. Yeah. Right. But then eventually you have ended up playing some minor roles, haven't you? How did you come up upon them?

NUITARIE:

I did not play any roles in Crown of Thorns but-

LENA:

Didn’t you?

NUITARIE:

Nope.

LENA:

Oh God. I could, I could swear they were on the spreadsheet. Sorry about that, I don’t know why I thought-

NUITARIE:

It’s okay.

LENA:

Oh no. I remember, because you played a small role for this other project that Lit was doing.

NUITARIE:

Yeah, yeah exactly. I'm doing the French waiter. I didn't have any complex about my accent then I could just speak French.

LENA

Fair enough, yeah.

NUITARIE:

But I did some minor roles into that big event that transpired in May that's called Voice Team, and I got roped into doing some small voices here and there. But that was just for the team, that was taking one for the team. I'm not yet very into doing voices in English. Maybe, I don't know, maybe I'll record French podfics in the future, but not in English.

LENA:

Yeah, well, I do know that there are other podficcers that do podfics French, so there is an option there if you're ever interested.

NUITARIE:

Mm hmm, alright.

LENA:

Alright, so you also work for the project mostly as a composer, indeed, our music director, really. So, how did you start your music career? Take us back.

NUITARIE:

Oh, OK, so music is actually- I'm a late bloomer in music. I did some- I mean, most studies were about literature, so not really music, but I think it's 2011, I went to Sweden for the Erasmus program, the university exchange program and during my time in Sweden, I had a lot of free time. Like, the courses- the classes were not so heavy. So I was on the lookout for stuff to do and a group of students told me about a choir that was rehearsing every week. And so I entered the choir and had a fantastic time with it. Got back to France, found another choir, and slowly but surely, music took a bigger and bigger role in my life to the point where now, four years ago, I stopped what I was doing as a job. And I told myself, OK, you know what? Let's stop bothering yourself with the job that you don't like. And you love music. So make it- make music your work. So I actually followed training, passed exams. I began to work. And that's how I got into music. So it was quite late.

LENA:

Right.

NUITARIE:

But yeah.

LENA:

And what was your career path before that? What were you thinking of doing? You said in literature, what did you want to do with that?

NUITARIE:

Um, I don't really know. I studied Scandinavian literature. And when you get a master's degree in that, I mean, it's lovely, but it's not really job worthy. So I passed the French state exam to become a teacher. And I became a French teacher, like a language teacher, but I did not really agree with the French system, so I only stayed a teacher for like a year and a half maybe, and then did some jobs in some companies as an assistant or stuff like that, but it was just to have a job.

LENA:

Right.

NUITARIE:

I was always on the lookout for something that would really speak to me and well, music was the answer.

LENA:

And then you switched to music. And was your family supportive of that change? Because it's quite a drastic difference from Scandinavian literature to musician.

NUITARIE:

Yeah, sure. Actually, they were quite supportive. I guess my parents have always been, you know, a bit- they’ve always watched my career path and my studies as something quite exotic. And they- I think they trusted me to make the right choices and at the end of the day, to be OK. So when I told my parents, OK, I'm quitting teaching and I'm doing some other jobs, they were like, OK, well, as long as you're OK. And then when I said I'm training to be a musician, they were like, OK, as long as you're OK and- So, yeah. So they were supportive in the sense that they placed their trust in me to make the right choices.

LENA:

And I imagine a big part of that was that you were already, by the sounds of it, you were already independent, right?

NUITARIE:

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

LENA:

What would you tell a young musician who might be considering a similar career path or even a career change, but who is maybe not quite independent yet?

NUITARIE:

Oh. Hmm. What would I say to a young musician who would like that job. OK, get training. I mean, don't don't throw yourself out there without training. So there's loads of resources on the Internet to get an education for free. I mean, there's online classes, there's videos on YouTube. There's so many resources available to train yourself and to learn before you throw yourself out there. And when you do- when you decide this career change, this, this- Well, yes, it's a big change in your life. Make sure that you have the financial resources to be OK for a year or so, like save some money, save up some money, do other, you know, silly jobs, work at McDonalds if needed. But yeah, save up. And when you're okay, and you have one year in front of you and you're trained and you've been you know. You've listened, you've read, you've educated yourself, then go for it. But it takes preparation, you can't just go in the subway and sing with your guitar, that doesn't work. I mean, it probably can, but it's a bit of a yeah, I guess, I guess it’s better to- Yeah, I'm always saying that you have to learn and you have- you never stop to learn, it's something that is very important in my life. When people ask me what I do, I always said, I'm learning something. I've never stopped learning, and that's very important in music as well. You're never a musician. You're always a musician to be.

LENA:

Have you ever gone through the music conservatory, sort of like a more regulated school type of learning, or were you always self-taught?

NUITARIE:

Yeah, I wished I went to the conservatory when I was younger. I wish, but no, actually, I do just what I said, when I decided to make a career change into music, I signed up on the Internet, on some university classes for music. I got the certificates and mostly taught myself through that. So I'm not really self-taught in the sense that I haven't guessed anything by myself. But I'm self-taught, self-taught in the sense that I didn't go to music school.

LENA:

Right. So you're a singer, do you play any other instruments? I mean, your voice is an instrument, obviously, but I mean-

NUITARIE:

Yes, yes, I understand where you mean. Actually I'm learning the harp, so. Yeah, yeah, it's very cool. It's very hard too.

LENA:

I would imagine. Yeah.

NUITARIE:

And I play a bit of piano, but I guess the piano is like a necessary step when you're interested into doing music professionally, you have to at some point you have to put your hands on the piano.

LENA:

Yes. Yeah I did go to the music conservatory. I am technically a pianist, although I don't work with that. And I remember for the people who picked up other instruments after a certain level, they were required to take sort of an introductory class to piano despite the fact that they were not pianists. So yeah, I, I would agree that- I felt a little bad at the time because I was like I felt like I was getting away with it, not learning to play, I don't know, the guitar, but yeah that's a thing that happens in music school as well.

NUITARIE:

Ok, so yeah that I understand.

LENA:

So what about music in fandom, you said that it's quite recent that you've started to create music for fandom. Do you know if there is a big community for it?

LENA:

I don't know if there is a big community for it. I remember that first piece I did for the Marvel movies and someone commented the piece of music that I made and said, whoa, it's the first time that I see original music as a piece of artwork. I mean, of fanwork. And I was like, yeah, I think I haven't met many people who do original music for fandom yet. I mean, there's obviously some bands that have emerged from like Harry Potter and yeah, some stuff exists, but it's not a large community out there. I guess we're not so many.

LENA:

I think I met one guy that made piano pieces for Yuuri! On Ice a few years ago. But other than that, I also don't know that many people. I was curious about that. Do you think it's because, I don't think this is the answer, but do you think it's because there are not many musicians in fandom, or do you think it's rather that they haven't, you know, like you jumped into, oh, I can make music for fandom.

NUITARIE:

Well, I guess it's because in fandom, the most present art forms are writing, and let’s say, drawing. It's not drawings like, you know, painting, drawing and all that kind of art, visual arts, visual arts. And I guess it's just that those are the main things that you think about when you think about fanwork, you think about the writings and you think about the visual arts. Actually, it's true that there is also people who make videos, who make original content on video, will make short films and also people will make costumes. I guess there's a lot of different ways to express your enthusiasm for your fandom. It's just that it's not as known as writing and, yeah, pictures.

LENA:

Yeah. So what would you tell a fandom musician that is maybe thinking about creating music for fandom projects?

NUITARIE:

I mean, go for it. It's a lot of fun. I mean, it's very- I think it's- I've got so much fun when I'm like, oh, I'm really enjoying this piece of media that could be a series, that could be a film, that could be a book, that could be just another fanfiction. And I'm really enjoying this. And I would love to create music for this. And I think of it as a gift that you make to the author or the original creator. Like your piece of art has inspired me so much that I make original new content for you. And I think it's a beautiful way of expressing your love and your enthusiasm for, yeah, for a content, for media.

LENA:

Awesome, awesome, great. So moving on to the work that you do specifically for Crown of Thorns, who decided and how was it decided how many music pieces you would make?

NUITARIE:

It was a conversation on the music channel, on the Discord server, and I was like, the main thing was, you know, I offered my services as a composer and I said, what kind of music do you need? And so the main thing that was answered to me was that we need a theme for the episodes, something to open and close the chapters, and then we need some music for important steps of the story, important events in the story. And I think it's both Lit and Iris who made a short list of moments in the story that seemed to them important and deserving of having specific music written for that.

LENA:

Right.

NUITARIE:

Yeah, that's how it happened. And so that was the first list of music that existed for me, like the first, let's say, yeah, shopping list of music needed for the project. But then some stuff had happened over the months where- I remember a very special to me voice chat, where people became very enthusiastic about ducklings. And someone said, I don't know. Someone said, we need a theme for the ducklings, we need music. And I was like horrified, like, how am I going to write music for stupid ducks? Like, this doesn't make sense. And yeah, so there was that first occurrence of the voice chat music generator, let's call it that way, who asked me, who commissioned me for the duckling theme. And it happened also in June for the small piece we did for the boys meet the TV series Crowley and Aziraphale. And I remember Lit telling me over the voice chat, hey Moony, we would like you to make a theme where you merge the TV theme with our theme, like as if that was easy. These two musics have nothing in common.

LENA:

I apologize, because I believe I was involved with the idea. So I'm sorry.

NUITARIE:

That was really hard to do. I mean, there was quite a challenge, but at the same time, it was a great exercise for me. It was something I've never done. Like I've never written a mashup before. So it was a very interesting exercise for me. So at the time, I was like very anxious and panicked about the whole thing. But once it was done, I was like quite, you know, quite happy that I had the opportunity to learn to do it. So thank you.

LENA:

You’re welcome, and I’m sorry.

NUITARIE:

Don’t be, don’t be.

LENA:

But hey, a bingo. Bingo square. Yeah? You know, when you have like a bingo card and they have all the squares and you have to, like, get five a row or something?

NUITARIE:

Yeah, definitely. That's somewhere in one of the columns there's compose a stupid mash up with two songs that have nothing to do one with each other.

LENA:

That have nothing to do whatsoever.

NUITARIE:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, so-

LENA:

Or the ducklings, I mean, the ducklings song, it's all over now because there are so many chapters with ducklings. I was going to ask about that, how come there's like so many chapters with the same song?

NUITARIE:

I think the thing that was decided was that in every episode that featured the ducklings, the duckling theme would be used. So actually when there is a chapter where you hear about the ducklings, you're supposed to hear the duckling theme at the end.

LENA:

I think there's only one that doesn't do that because it's a very long chapter. And I remember having a conversation on the editing channel because we were supposed to put the duckling at the end. But the ending of the actual chapter was like really serious and a lot of feelings and it didn't fit with the emotional tone which is very happy.

NUITARIE:

So because that would have been a big backlash. Yeah, like the whiplash of the ducklings. Yeah, I remember that conversation. I remember reading it and thinking, yeah, that's probably a good choice. For that I'm happy.

LENA:

Yeah. Except for that one you should hear the ducklings in all of the duckling chapters, which is adorable.

NUITARIE:

Oh thank you.

LENA:

I love it so much. Oh and there is, now that we're talking about your bingo squares, there is the one that you made for, oh, I'll say it. April Fool's!

NUITARIE:

Oh, yeah, yeah, that was also a voice chat commission, I think, where someone, I don't know who, said we need something to to specify that this is a different kind of chapter like this is a different kind of episode. Well, you had the Google Voice to do that, but still and I remember not having a lot of time, I mean, available to do anything at that period. I got a bit, you know, caught up by my schedule and suddenly had this April Fools theme to do and I had no idea what to do. So I just opened up the project for the original theme, the limestone cliffs. And I just thought, OK, let's just pick silly instruments to replace all of them. So that's basically what happened. I just reopened the same file and just, you know, changed the instruments to find the most quirky and bizarre instruments that I could find in my library. So that's how the April Fools theme was born.

LENA:

I love that theme. I mean, I think yeah, I'm fairly sure that's the same theme that we used for the interviews afterwards.

NUITARIE:

It is, it is

LENA:

I was kind of like, thinking, where did I pull that from? Yeah, it's definitely the same one. It's just so quirky.

NUITARIE:

Yeah, it is. It is quirky. And I did not realize that it sounded a bit like an old radio at some point. And I think it's perfect for an interview theme, like doing over the telephone or the radio. And you have this strange electronic sound going on and that works, that works.

LENA:

It feels like it's the musical equivalent to a pixelated image.

NUITARIE:

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I love that definition.

LENA:

So to move on from this, you have posted on your Tumblr a little about the process for each specific piece. But do you have a general process when you begin composing a new piece?

NUITARIE:

Not really. I mean, I have to start from an emotion. It's very difficult for me to have nothing to base myself upon. I need something as, yeah, let's say as a ground foundation. And most of the time, it's an emotion. And I'm going to just let it simmer into my mind for a few days, just, you know, let my mind float around the idea of the emotion and slowly I'm going to associate musical ideas to that emotion. Like what kind of instruments could I use for this idea and then what kind of tempo of speed am I going to use? And then is there a small melody that, you know, just comes to me that could work for that? And that's usually how I start. I just let things simmer in my mind-cauldron for a while, and when I'm feel like I'm a bit ready, I write the music down most of the time on the piano. And when the piano piece is done, when I'm fairly done with the idea, like, OK, I've got the main idea and it works that way, then I'm going to have to use, well, my computer and a digital audio system to distribute the notes of the piano to a range of instruments. And when that is done, which can take quite a long a long time, then it's on the producing part of it. So I need to mix the sound and make sure the balance is OK, make sure the articulations of the instruments are OK, and then mastering the track and then sending it where it needs to be sent.

LENA:

Are there any instruments you favor when you're composing?

NUITARIE:

Well for Crown of Thorns, I remember having a conversation very early on with Iris that they wanted to have acoustic instruments mainly, and that they enjoyed the piano and the cello and the guitar. And so I decided that most of the soundtrack for the podcast was going to feature these instruments, these string instruments. So the piano is always somewhere in the soundtrack and the cello is also very present around, I mean, in most of the pieces you can hear the cello and to accompany the cello, there's a third instrument that should be. Well, that's that's not really well known. It's called the nyckelharpa. And it's a Swedish instrument that looks like the lovechild of a hurdy gurdy and a cello. It's very weird, but it has a lovely sound. It's a lovely instrument. And so those are the three main instruments that I used throughout the soundtrack. And it's a bit of a constraint, but it's nice to have a constraint when you are creating. It's like I need to use this string instrument. How can I make it work? And yeah, so the piano, the nyckelharpa and the cello, those are the three centerpieces of the Crown of Thorns.

LENA:

And when you compose for your own pieces, do you have an instrument that you prefer?

NUITARIE:

I don't really actually, I guess I'm going to feel inspired by an instrument that I will have heard in an album that I'm listening to or in another piece of music. I'm going to say, oh, that's a lovely use of the flute or I love that marimba or what strange instrument that looks cool. And I'm going to research a bit the instruments and then use it when it strikes my fancy, like, oh, I'm going to write this very quirky piece about ducklings. Well, marimba could be fun. And so that's how it happened.

LENA:

And when you're writing your music, how do you decide or, at which stage, I guess, do you decide which measures or which key you are composing in?

LENA:

Oh, that's very early. Actually, it's I think that's quite hard to decide like which signature, which type of measure and then which key you're going to write in, so most of the time I just randomize it. I'm like, OK, today, that's the G minor in six/eight.

LENA:

I love that.

NUITARIE:

And I like it to be random, because if I'm going to stress over which key I'm going to use or which time signature, it's going to take a lot of time. And I feel like that's not really important, that I can give myself these choices very early and then make it work. OK, today it's going to be a major key and it's going to be a binary time. OK, great, let's do that. Today's going to be a weird mode, like maybe, I don't know, the Phrygian mode and it's going to be written with measures that change one from the other, and that's making it work. So. So it's like I'm really- I don't feel like these things are very important, it's just choices I have to make at the beginning of the creation. I guess it's a bit like a visual artist that chooses a pen and a type of paper. And when it's chosen, you work with it. If it doesn't work, that's OK. You're just going to choose another.

LENA:

I was asking because I remember reading in one of your descriptions of how you got to a certain piece, and I think this was the one you made for Sophia’s wedding. I think it was I seem to remember you said something about, oh, it's in three or four because it's a waltz kind of music.

NUITARIE:

Yeah.

LENA:

So I wondered if that plays into it most of the time, or is it just more sporadic?

NUITARIE:

It's a bit more sporadic, but sometimes, you are- genre of music is going to call for a certain type of keys or a certain type of measure. So, for instance, when you're writing something that's you want something light and easy that makes you think of dancing, for instance, a waltz, then it's almost 90 percent of the time going to be a three/four measure. So I was like, OK, this is a wedding, people are going to dance, I want it to be, you know, I want people to be able to to swing to the music and then let's choose the three/four, because that's- I mean, that's what you do when you want to write a waltz. So that's what happened.

LENA:

All right.

NUITARIE:

I don't know if I answered your question or if I'm clear. I'm afraid of being very, very obscure to all listeners.

LENA:

Oh, no, I think that answered a question. Yeah, it's a sporadic decision that you take depending on the piece.

NUITARIE:

Yeah, exactly.

LENA:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I hope it's not being very obscure. I'm trying to ask the kind of questions that everyone could understand without music training, though, I might not be the best person to ask since I do have kind of a music training. But, you know, I think-

NUITARIE:

Well, if they have questions they can reach out to me.

LENA:

So I was meaning to ask, how long would it usually take you then to create a full new piece?

NUITARIE:

That- I can't say. That can change a lot from one piece to the other. There are certain pieces that have been sitting on my computer for a year before I was like, happy with them and said, OK, this can go out now. But the thing is, with the podcast, there was a certain time constraint to it. I did not have all the time in my life to write these pieces, so most of the time it would take, I think, two weeks. From the beginning of the process, I mean, from the moment I sat down at my piano to the time I would send the music over, there was like two weeks.

LENA:

So about two weeks. And do you think that maybe there is sort of an expectation when you listen to a music piece for it to be more finished or more polished than when you go out to read a fanfic and you're aware that you might find someone who hasn't put in as much effort as you would find in a published piece of writing. Do you think maybe that expectation is a little higher for music? Is that why you take longer to put out your music?

NUITARIE:

Oh, wow, that is an excellent question. Yes, I definitely think that when you post a song or a piece of instrumental music, people are going to be on the lookout for the sound quality, for the realness of the instruments and for the originality of the melody, for instance. And thing is, we listen to music all the time, you're always subject to music, whether you are in your supermarket or watching TV or being with friends, your music is everywhere. So we are all listeners to music, but we are not all readers and, more than that, critic readers. So I think that you can read a piece of fanfiction and maybe it's not quite finished or maybe it's not quite polished, but that's OK. You've enjoyed it and you knew you had a great time being active as a reader and imagining the scenes and the characters and all that. But with music, you have to instantly get the attention of the listener and you have to please them instantly. I guess everyone has already launched a music piece on their computer or the phone or the CD player. Listen to the first 30 seconds and said, I don't like it. And then you just, you know, you press stop. You don't go further than that. Yeah, I guess with music, the bar is set higher and so, maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like when I'm posting music, it has to be as polished as I can do. So it means that my earlier music is not as polished as I- the ones to do now, but that's OK, that that was the best I could do then. And I was trying to make it the best I could with the tools and the skills I had.

LENA:

Right. No, of course, I mean, we all grow and learn as we go. Do you think of perhaps this is, and I may be wrong, but do you think perhaps this is a problem, that instrumental music and sort of more, not classical music, but like what people think when you say classical music, I guess, has this problem of it more than music with lyrics or other types of more modern music?

NUITARIE:

Well, I guess so, yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right. I think when you have lyrics to listen to, you can concentrate on these lyrics. Like, what is the singer trying to say? Is this poetry? Is this a love song? What are they talking about? So you have a first level of comprehension, of understanding. That is, what is the text talking about? And so you can put the rest of the music in the background sort of, OK, I'm really enjoying the song because the singer's talking about unrequited love, for instance, and you're really into the theme. You like the poetry, the imagery used. Maybe you're not going to pay so much attention to the fact that they used a certain kind of guitar or that they used an alteration in that kind of measure or something like that. You're not going to go into the technicalities of the music. You're going to focus on the meaning of the lyrics. I guess with instrumental music you don't have that leeway. You don't have that first level of initial understanding. It's a direct link to emotion. So it can work. Or it can not work, and that's a gamble, that's a gamble with every listener.

LENA:

Right. Yeah, I was recording an interview recently with an artist and we were talking about how it's- when you write something, it's more guided for the reader to know what they are supposed to take from that. And as opposed to when you're making a visual piece where you are transcribing those feelings and those ideas into something that could be quite abstract, depending on your style. And I think music also takes it that one step further where maybe not everybody is going to be able to even understand what they're listening to, right? Because, for instance, you would listen to a piece and you would know because either you have created it or you have worked creating pieces. Oh, this is this instrument and they are using this type of key or whatever, and maybe that would mean something to you and then someone else who has absolutely no idea about music except for being a consumer of music, maybe they would get something completely different just because the way they consume it is completely different from yours. So I think it's very abstract.

NUITARIE:

Yeah, exactly. I mean, you have some pieces that talk to you directly because it uses you musical cliches and you say, oh, this is a pirate song because, you know, it's feeling like- it's exactly something you've heard in Pirates of the Caribbean or in any swashbuckling movie. And so there are some musical cliches that exist and that guide- that can guide, I like the fact that you use guiding as a word. So, yeah, that can guide the listener to the piece. Like, this is what it’s talking about. It's talking about pirates. And it's very clear. But sometimes the path is not that clear and you're not using those cliches and so, as you say, can be very abstract.

LENA:

What do you think, and it's OK if you don't have an answer to this, I'm just snowballing from the conversation.

NUITARIE:

Yeah, sure.

LENA:

What do you think could be done- because obviously there are going to be musical snobs, the same way there are radar snobs and artists snobs, and there are always people who want to see the absolute perfection of the art. And that's OK because that's how they consume that medium. But what do you think could be done to make music, not just in fandom, but just in general, I guess, more accessible, you know, more something that people can just enjoy without having to necessarily understand or just be happier with what they're listening to without going super picky on it in the first 30 seconds, like you said?

NUITARIE:

I don't really have an answer for that. I guess it's part- it's also a politic question like I mean, in the society you have to encourage and give credit to artists and make sure that people who are learning have a place to express themselves as young musicians. And when I say young, I mean beginner. But even as a beginner, you can compose and you can create and you need to have a space available to do that and to receive feedback.

LENA:

Right.

NUITARIE:

And I guess if there places were more distributed over territories, you could actually get a bit more interested into beginner music, like listening to people who are not yet accomplished but say, OK, your pieces you have you have interesting ideas in them and I can give you feedback and you can grow as an artist. So you need these places of training and feedback.

LENA:

Right. So about those places for training, as you put it, I'm- primarily I would consider myself a writer when I- when it comes to fandom, I have also done podfics. I can't draw either. But I do write. And I remember when I was starting how it felt like fandom was, you know, that place that you could just go and your English teacher or, well, in my case, my Spanish teacher wouldn't be like, oh, this comma isn't in the right place actually. But at the same time, you could get that feedback that was like, oh, I really like this character the way you wrote them, or I really like their dialogue, some stuff like that. So for writing, I feel like that's something that fandom provides sort of a safe or safe-ish place to start. Do you think that could be the same for music at some point?

NUITARIE:

I guess it could be, yes. And to follow up on your preceding question, I think that today it's easier to become a musician without an academic training. There are as I said, there are loads of resources online for free and you can equip yourself with instruments for, like, it's not a lot of money to actually get a computer and midi keyboard and start recording. It's actually very cheap now, which wasn't the case 20 years ago. So now I guess music is very democratized. You can start making music as you want. There are loads of tools and digital tools to start. So I guess-

LENA:

And free too.

NUITARIE:

Yeah. And so I guess we're going to hear in, you know, in the years to come more people beginning music as self-taught Internet students somehow. And I do hope that we can have the same good spirit that exists, for instance, on AO3, as you said, you can begin writing and post things and people are going to give you positive feedback, giving you advice, tips and tricks. And I guess the same thing is happening or is going to happen with music, where people will be able to give you positive feedback and constructive feedback about what you're doing. And I hope music in fandom is going to grow because I think it's a fantastic way to express, as I said, enthusiasm for something. So, yeah, it would be nice to young musicians, to help them grow.

LENA:

Baby musicians need a lot of care.

NUITARIE:

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

LENA:

Yeah. No it's yeah. I don't know. It's looking into the future, right, and thinking maybe, maybe one day. Do you have, maybe you can't remember off the top of your head, if you remember later, I can just put them in the transcript of the interview, but do you have any particular resource that you would like to share with people who might want to look into creating music? Off the top of my head I can think of MuseScore, which is a free program for transcribing music sheets. But, um, do you have any other software?

NUITARIE:

You mean software in mind? OK, so yeah, MuseScore is awesome. Like, it's a very precious tool and it's free. So close to the musical development, the development team still is releasing new versions of the software every month. So yeah, MuseScore is a treasure on earth and then you have a bunch of software that's free that you can get, you know, light versions of them to start. Thinking on the top of my head, Ableton has a light version that's free. I think F.L. Studios has one too. And if you're a Mac user, I mean, it's a bit of an investment, but LogicPro, which is the one I use, is, I know it's going to sound a bit crazy, but it's only 200 euros. I don't know dollars, but I think it's very the same. So I think I yeah, I guess you can say that two hundred euros is expensive for maybe for a beginner, but it's, I mean, it's nothing. You can save up for that. I mean, the tool is amazing and it's worth so much more than that. So it's something you pay 200 euros for, but for the same kind of program, you can pay up to 5000. So it's only 200 euros on the scale of things. But I know it's quite an investment, especially at the beginning, but there's a light version of it also on offer, Mac users, that's called GarageBand. And so you can-

LENA:

Oh, GarageBand is something that actually a lot of podfic people use, yeah.

NUITARIE:

Yeah, and so you can make music with GarageBand as well. And for singers who just want to record, well, as you must know, Audacity is free as well. And you can go to tweak your voice and learn a bit of voice producing with compression and equalizing and stuff like that. And you can learn to do it for free on Audacity. So yeah.

LENA:

Yeah. And I think the best thing about most free software is that there usually are tutorials online. I know from MuseScore the website itself has a lot of how-to pages and I'm sure there are other tutorials on YouTube. Audacity has tutorials on YouTube and Audacity in GarageBand actually have a lot of tutorials from the podfic community because that's the two most used programs. So that's yeah, very cool. Also for our American listeners, I just converted that 200 euros is 235.90 USD, as of the 22nd of August.

NUITARIE:

Ok.

LENA:

May change, but you know.

NUITARIE:

For now that's the price.

LENA:

But yeah, that's, that's a bit more of advanced. If you're looking to just start doing things, I would imagine it's easier to just go with a free software.

NUITARIE:

Yeah. I mean, it's a free, you have GarageBand, you have Ableton Live, you have to FL Studio light and a bunch of other things that are available for free and thing is, some of them are a bit, you know, they've been programmed as, I mean, free resources. So sometimes, yes, you have to read a bit of literature, you have to watch the tutorials because they're not easy softwares to dive into. You need to work a bit into them. You have to, yeah.

LENA:

Yeah, they're not intuitive.

NUITARIE:

Yeah, exactly. I mean, Audacity, when you look at the thing, I mean it's straight out of the nineties, you have to, you have to, you know, put your back into it.

LENA:

Right. Right, right. Right. I mean the record button is right there, but other than the record button…

NUITARIE:

It’s the big red thing.

LENA:

Yeah, but other than the record button, Audacity has a lot of tricks that you have to sort of learn as you go. So, yeah, I agree. So to go back a little to the questions that I generally ask on these interviews, because I think we've strayed quite a bit on this. So what do you like the most and the least, I guess, about your work as a musician?

NUITARIE:

What I love the most is that, I mean. I do music for a living. I mean, I'm always surrounded by music and for me, it means that I can escape the real world when I want, where I want, and that's a very precious thing to have, especially these days. So, yeah, if something doesn't agree with me in the real world, I mean, there's always music and in the music world, I can control anything. I'm the master of my ship. So that's what's really precious to me. And especially I mean, that's the selfish part of it. But the other part of it is that I can bring people over to my little corner of the world and I can bring people to emotions and to themself escape the reality. And I feel like that's my job as a musician is to make my listeners escape the world. And it's very important to me. So that's what I love about music. What I hate about my job is that it's so hard to get paid. You gotta buckle up for it because it's not well paid. And until you have built a solid network around you, it's really hard to get paid gig. It's really hard to make money with your work. I mean, my biggest source of income is my classes. So when I'm teaching, like, the vocal lessons and the music theory, that's how I- most of my income come from. So, yeah, you have to be realistic in the sense that it's a difficult job to earn a living. Yeah, but that's the main problem, really. Otherwise it's a perfect world.

LENA:

I feel like that's very recurrent through the arts in general. It's very hard to get paid for arts until the world becomes a dark place. And then suddenly everyone wants you to create art and you're like, oh, now you want this.

NUITARIE:

Yeah. Where were you five years ago?

LENA:

On that note, cause I'm really curious, how is the music- well, the music industry, I guess, coping with the quarantine and everything that's been happening, because I know my choir in particular is not allowed to, you know. Just meet and try or like, learn our songs, and we can't meet in person, and you're a voice coach and how is that working?

NUITARIE:

Ok, so for my classes, I've got individual students. So they come to my place to have lessons. So I had to put in place a sanitary protocol for every stand, I don't know what that is in feet. but in meters it is like one, one and a half meters away from each other. I have to disinfect the music stand, the piano. And so it's a bit a bit of a hassle, but it's OK. For the choir, well, same as you. We can't meet yet.

LENA:

Right.

NUITARIE:

But the wind band, actually, we can rehearse again. It's just that we have to make sure to stand that one meter away from each other and to wear a mask when we are not sitting in our place in the music room.

LENA:

Right.

NUITARIE:

So, yeah, that stupid virus is putting quite a lot of weight on, I mean, on associations or music bands, on on artists. It's- we were not, as I said, music is, it's hard to earn a living. So it's putting another difficulty on the plate and a big one.

LENA:

Right. Yeah, because I imagine I mean, if you're a pianist, you can play with a mask and that's fine. You just disinfect the piano and wash your hands. But if you're a flutist or if you're a singer, you can't do it with a mask. So that's complicated.

NUITARIE:

Yes. Yes, it is. So, yeah, I'm really hoping that this, you know, this little plague we have is going to go away at some point.

LENA:

At some point. Fingers crossed.

NUITARIE:

Yeah, exactly right.

LENA:

All right. So a few final questions. So do you have a favorite piece that you have created for this project?

NUITARIE:

Oh, wow. And that's the million dollar question, is there a favorite piece. Hmm. I don't know. I really don't. I mean, I've got kind of, you know, I'm sentimental about the limestone cliffs because it's the first piece that I wrote for. So it set the tone for everything that came after. It was- once the limestone cliff was written, it was like, OK, this is going to be the mold, can you say that?

LENA:

I guess.

NUITARIE:

English is failing me. It's going to be the cast, the mold, that you're going to use for the rest of the pieces, like, you're going to reference it a lot. And I did reference it a lot, so.

LENA:

It’s like the style.

NUITARIE:

Yeah, exactly, so it was a statement, it was an unconscious statement but a statement nonetheless. So I guess it has a special place because of that. Otherwise, I want to say I, you know, I'm a bit torn about the ducklings because, I mean, the theme of that piece is so silly. I mean, it's stupid. It's about ducklings, for God's sake. And at the same time, I had to, you know, I don't really write easily happy music. I'm a very melancholy kind of composer. So writing that kind of piece, that's very light and quirky and funny, that was quite, quite a struggle for me to research how to make music funny, you know, just kind of silly questions. And I put so much effort into writing it. Then when it was done, I was like, this is maybe the most accomplished music I've ever written. I mean, it asked a lot of me. I had to research about it. I spent a lot of time thinking about it. So I was a bit- I'm still a bit torn about the fact that this is maybe the most stupid piece I've ever written. But at the same time, it's the most cohesive and coherent in terms of styles. So, yeah, I'm torn about the ducklings, but otherwise I think I don't have a favorite, apart from what I said.

LENA:

Fair enough. Yeah. I mean. Yeah, I sort of know what you mean, because I've never actually written crack fanfic, but I've read a lot of it and I think it takes knowing very well what you write and what you are trying to to get a laugh out of, to actually write coherent crack fic and make it funny, you know, make it something that people would go like, oh, this is hilarious, and will reread it and will, like read it to friends over voice calls. I've had a friend who would whenever she had the chance and we were on a group call, she would be like, hey, do you want to read a chapter of this? And it was always the same fic and we would always laugh.

NUITARIE:

That's amazing. I love it.

LENA:

I think it's similar to the ducklings, because like whenever I listen to it, I'm just, like, it's so cute. I think it's the kind of song you wouldn’t think, oh, like tons of hours of research went into this. But at the same time, you sort of have to realize that the composer really knew what they were doing because the pieces- it’s not quite as vague as others. As we were talking before, sometimes you listen to something and it's very vague and listeners will get whatever they get from it. I think this one is just one that listeners will just be like, yeah, it's happy. It's cute, ducklings.

NUITARIE:

Yeah, exactly. And I mean, I remember that very moment of epiphany when I was trying to find the right instruments for the music. And I was a bit desperate because the instruments I chose in the beginning did not have this light and funny feeling to them. And I found this stupid patch of a person playing the piccolo too hard, like the person is just blowing too hard on the instrument on purpose.

LENA:

Right.

NUITARIE:

And when I listened to the sound, I was like, this is perfectly the right sound for it. And it was like-

LENA:

This is what a duckling sounds like.

NUITARIE:

Yeah. It’s someone blowing too hard on the piccolo. Yeah. And so many hours of flute and, you know, strange Chinese instruments just to find a duckling sound and just hearing someone blowing too hard on a piccolo and saying, yeah, this is it.

LENA:

That’s amazing.

NUITARIE:

Yeah, so I guess that's a piece that I will remember, I guess, all my life, the duckling theme. And what about you, can I ask you the question? Have you a favorite piece?

LENA:

Oh. Do I have a favorite piece? I think it has to be- I really like the ducklings. I think they're really cute, but I think it has to be the one that's the mash up.

NUITARIE:

OK.

LENA:

I really love the mash up. Partially because I felt really guilty right after asking, I was like, oh, no, what have I done? You don't have to. I remember this very specifically, like, if it's not possible or you don't have the time, like, don't. But yeah, it has to be either that one or the ducklings. Yeah. And this is like really silly, it perhaps is because when I started editing, I've also contributed as an editor to the chapters, when I started editing, like the first three chapters or so that I edited, had the duckling theme on it, like just accidental. And then I just sort of realized after a moment like, oh, this is not the actual, like finish or, what is the name, the actual outro. This is just the outro that has coincidentally happened in all of my chapters.

NUITARIE:

I love it.

LENA:

I have good memories of the ducklings. Yeah, it was really great.

LENA (Added in Editing):

Hey, it's editing Lena here, so I will readily admit that this question caught me off guard, I'm not usually the one being interviewed and so while it absolutely still stands that Ducklings has a place in my heart. I thought I'd let you know which ones are my favorites aside from the baby ducks. So I really, really, absolutely love Garden Scythe of Fire. You absolutely have to listen to it. It's amazing. It just gives such a strong vibe of fight. I really love that. And then the theme for Asmodai, similarly. But if you're looking for something more relaxed, you absolutely have to listen to the one for Harold’s death. I will leave links on the AO3 post for this interview. That one is so good it gives you chills. It has clock sounds at the end that really just does it for that song. All of the songs that Moony has done have such a different feel and at the same time managed to sound like they belong in the same project. And honestly, I can't say enough good things about them, but these are definitely some of my favorites that I did not have in mind when she asked me this question. So I went back to look for them. And here you have them. And now back to the interview.

([Ducklings](https://archiveofourown.org/works/23528587/chapters/56431522#workskin) \- [Mashup (The Limestone Omens)](https://archiveofourown.org/works/23528587/chapters/59156596) \- [Garden Scythe of Fire](https://archiveofourown.org/works/23528587/chapters/56431213) \- [Asmodai Theme](https://archiveofourown.org/works/23528587/chapters/56462416#workskin) \- [Fragile Emptiness](https://archiveofourown.org/works/23528587/chapters/56431384))

LENA:

And just to finish, what is, if you could pick one thing, what is the one thing that you've learned during this project?

NUITARIE:

Ok, I'm going to disobey and I'm going to give you two things. The first is that organization is everything. I'm stupidly amazed and awed by the amount of structure and organization and scheduling that is going on with this project. I mean, I live in the outskirts of the project. I mean, I'm not solicited all the time, as the voice actors are. I mean, basically, I’ve finished my job now. I've pieces that I need to be wrote, that would be written, sorry. And so I live in the outskirts of the projects and I'm amazed by the organization that's needed to create a podfic that massive in length and time. So that's the one thing, it's one thing I learned is that organization is key. That's the first thing and the second, it's a bit more selfish or at least self-centered, is that it was a big ego boost for me to do this project. I have this big imposter syndrome that I live with. I've always this little voice in my head saying, you're not really a musician, you're not really a composer, you're just pretending. And to have my music featured on the episodes, to have, you know, very positive feedback on the tracks, to have people enthusiastic about what they hear, and people saying this moved me, this piece made me laugh, I really liked that music. To have that kind of feedback was so precious to me as a creator and that gave me so much more confidence in my skills as a composer. So, yeah, that was very, very precious to me. And I'm very grateful that the team of Crown of Thorns gave me the opportunity to become the composer for the podfic. I'm very, very grateful for that. Yeah, it's life changing, really, so, yeah, kudos to the team.

LENA:

I mean, partially it's also, you know, your own courage to go out and ask in the first place, like, hey, do you need music? I mean, I'm not entirely sure that most podfics, or podfic projects end up having a musician creating new music, right? Like a lot of podfics will feature music in it. But not most of them would have a dedicated composer for it. So, you know, it's a huge thing that you went and asked in the first place, I think.

NUITARIE:

OK, well, that turned out OK.

LENA:

It turned out great. I'm glad you've had- it sounds like you've had fun with it at least, from what you've been telling me.

NUITARIE:

Exactly, I did and I still do, there's still two pieces that will go live. There's one for a later chapter and there's a surprise for the end of the project. But I can't say more. It's a surprise. Exactly.

LENA:

Yeah. All right. Well, then that's pretty much everything. Thank you so much for talking with us, Moony. Tell us, where can people find you online?

NUITARIE:

Ok, you can find me on Tumblr as Nuitarius that's spelled N-U-I-T-A-R-I-U-S. On AO3 as a writer and sometime podficcer in French. The pseud is Nuitarie, and as a composer you can find me on all downloading and streaming platforms: Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon, SoundCloud, Bandcamp, you name it. I'm probably on it, as Nuitarie, which is my composer name and that's spelled N-U-I-T-A-R-I-E.

LENA:

So that is all we have for today. Next time we'll be talking to Tezca, a voice actor and artist for the project, so keep your ears ready for that.

OUTRO MUSIC


	12. Interview with Tezca

**Interview with Tezca**

We are halfway through the mammoth project that is Crown of Thorns Podrama, and we've got some extra content for you all!  
Along our way, we have managed to gather an amazing team of voice actors, editors, artists, musicians, and organizers.  
This is the start of a series of interviews with the team about their experience and involvement with the Crown of Thorns Podrama.  
We're continuing our interviews with Tezca, a long time fanfic writer, who jumped headfirst into the Good Omens fandom in July of 2019 and isn't coming back out anytime soon.  
She loves the show that much. She admittedly hasn't read the novel but wants to someday. When will it be? Who knows.  
But she has read tons of fanfics and written too over the years since she was a teenager.

Love,  
The CoT Pod'rama Team

**Where to Find Tezca**  
[AO3](https://archiveofourown.org/users/Tezca/works) / [Tumblr](https://waylonjenningslittlefield.tumblr.com/) / [Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/thisoutlawbit/) / [Twitter](https://twitter.com/thisoutlawbit)

**Interview with Tezca Team**  
Hosted By - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Chapter Artist - [CompassRose](https://outlikethat.tumblr.com/)   
Transcripts By - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works)

Hello everyone! And welcome to our Cast and Crew Q&A! My name is Lena, and today I have for you an interview with Tezca!

Today’s interview is a little different, as Tezca opted to have a written interview. She’s hard of hearing, and recording would have been more difficult – although as you will see, she does participate with the project as a VA!

Without further ado, I’ll let you get to know her better :)

Transcript

LENA:

Tezca, it's an honor to have you with us today. Tell us a bit about yourself before we start, where are you from, what do you do aside from fandom?

TEZCA:

I'm from the Pacific Northwest in the US and aside from the fandom, I do archery. Course with covid and just life in general sometimes it’s hard to go out and shoot a whole lot, but its lots of fun. I got second place in my division with last year's archery league so that was cool. I also crochet, which I should do more often since that's the kinda thing you can do while binge watching Supernatural on Netflix or watching Good Omens for the hundredth time lol. I've been doing crochet and archery for a few years now.

LENA:

Oh, that's super rad, my brother was into archery for a couple of summers and it seemed very cool! Congrats on the second place, too! And what kind of things do you crochet?

TEZCA:

I have made hats, scarfs, and some headbands too. I want to try making a blanket sometime.

LENA:

Oh, that's really cool. Have you ever done plushies? I'll admit I never got the hang of crochet; I learned the basics of sewing and knitting, but crochet is a mystery to me :D

TEZCA:

Oh, I haven't, but that would be fun to do! I just dunno how they make them like it seems complicated, but probably not lol

LENA:

Fair enough, they seem very difficult! Well, and tell us, how did you land in fandom?

TEZCA:

Well, I noticed David Tennant was in it and I was wanting to check it out. I have seen David before in Doctor Who, and I enjoyed his role as the Doctor so I was curious about Good Omens. But I also wasn't sure if the show was gonna be good or not. In July I just decided to go for it and never left.

LENA:

Had you read the book before?

TEZCA:

No I haven't. I only started it sometime after and even then I only got partway through. Bad I know lol but so far I do love the book!

LENA:

No, it's alright! There are different ways to consume media XD I hope the rest of the book lives up to the expectations if you do read it!

How about fandom in general, when did you first start exploring it?

TEZCA:

I don't remember, probably shortly afterwards. My first Good Omens server was the one for r/goodomens but then I left that and searched for other servers on discord.

LENA:

Oh, I mean fandom in the general sense. For example, you mentioned you're a fan of Doctor Who, so have you been part of other fandoms before Good Omens?

TEZCA:

Oh, oops my bad for misunderstanding the question lol. Yeah, I've been part of other fandoms if you include just reading fanfics. Like before I started reading Good Omens fanfics, I was reading BTS fics but I wasn't really too involved in that fandom other than leaving nice comments in fics I like. I would still read BTS/Kpop fics if I feel like it lol

LENA:

BTS has taken over the world pretty much XDD Do you remember your first fandom ever?

TEZCA:

XD yeah lol. And yeah, Xena Warrior Princess.

LENA:

Ahh, I think I've heard of it in passing! TV series, right?

TEZCA:

Yeah

LENA:

How about writing, do you remember when you started writing your own fic?

TEZCA:

Yeah, I think I started writing when I was in high school. Around 16/17.

LENA:

How did you get started? Had you read fics before and decided to try, or did you discover what fic was after you had written your own?

TEZCA:

I must've read some fics and decided to give it a try after we read The Cold Equation in class. I wanted to do a fix-it fic for it.

LENA:

Ahh, the fix-it fics! Truly the best motivation, fixing the canon story xDD Can relate, yep. And how do you find the written medium different from podficcing and drawing?

TEZCA:

XD yep.

With writing fanfics, I don't have to worry about hearing my own voice being played back on Audacity XD. Also, with writing you can create your own story and plot and what you want to do. Podfic can be easier cause you're just reading stuff off of the screen and you don't have to worry about staring at the screen waiting for the words to come lol

LENA:

Agreed XD Different set of challenges, I suppose. What about visual art?

TEZCA:

I’m not sure, writing just comes easier for me than visual art lol. Bit more logical to figure out I guess if that makes sense.

LENA:

I can't really draw, so for me writing is definitely easier XDD Let's talk a bit more about podfic then. When did you find out podfic existed, how were you made aware of it?

TEZCA:

I’m not sure when I first discovered it. I probably just saw it among the fics whenever I went browsing on AO3.

LENA:

And what did you think of it when you found it?

TEZCA:

That it was cool and could be fun to listen to a fic audio wise. I just haven't gotten around to listening to too much.

LENA:

What is it like for you to listen to podfic, being hard of hearing?

TEZCA:

I’m not sure, if they have a clear enough voice, I can hear enough but having a transcript is always easier. Or I guess opening a fic and reading along in this case lol. A podcast I listened to before had transcripts available for each episode so that's what I did there too.

LENA:

I see :D Have you done any podfic yourself aside from CoT?

TEZCA:

I haven't.

LENA:

And now that you've been part of CoT, do you think you might try to in the future?

TEZCA:

Yeah maybe if I feel like giving it another shot. It is fun.

LENA:

Awesome :D So, how did you find out about the CoT podrama? Had you read the fic before?

TEZCA:

I found out about it via another Good Omens server, either the M25 or Ineffable Temptations, I’m not sure lol. And no, sadly I haven't read the fic… but from what I read in the chapters I was doing a cover art for its written really good!

LENA:

Do you listen to the chapters then?

TEZCA:

Oh, I haven't yet, but I wouldn't mind checking out a chapter or two sometime in the future.

LENA:

So, if it wasn't the story itself, what attracted you to be part of the CoT team when you first heard about it?

TEZCA:

I guess the idea of doing voice acting, it sounded fun to me and I wanted to give it a try. Especially since it was for a Good Omens fic!

LENA:

I can relate to that :D I hadn't heard of CoT the fic before joining the team either, but I wanted to be part of the team and work on such a bit podfic. Though for sure, at first, I was quite intimidated about the scope.

So you wanted to try voice acting then, did you consider auditioning for CoT immediately after finding out?

TEZCA:

Yeah, I think I gave it some thought at first but then decided what the hell, let’s go for it. Now I can say I did some voice acting, even if I’m not the greatest lol

LENA:

That's awesome, congrats on taking that step then! What was it like when you heard back after auditions?

TEZCA:

I think just happy I got a part lol

LENA:

You play a handful of minor roles: Amos (Ch. 40), a policewoman (Ch. 43), a hairdresser (Ch. 50) and Anat (Ch. 56), which hasn’t gone out yet. Did you get them all through the first round of auditions, or how did you come upon them?

TEZCA:

I got Anat and the Policewoman originally and the rest I got as a pinch hitter.

LENA:

Do you have a favorite among them?

TEZCA:

I’m not sure, I guess Anat from what I remember reading over, cause she was badass talking back Raphael. It reminded me of a protagonist in a story called Death's Good Dog by TL Morganfield where the young girl named Fiona also had a problem with that story's Archangel Raphael. What is it with Raphael in fictional stories lol TV!omens fandom seems to be the only place where you can see depictions of a non-annoying Raphael, usually with Crowley being him in reverse AUs.

LENA:

XDDD From what AJ has said in their interview, Raphael and Uriel were both meant to be kind of annoying in the story, so yeah. Anat was pretty badass :D And fair enough about reverse AUs, though I think the headcanon about Crowley being Raphael is very new, so I imagine it didn't influence CoT at all.

What do you like about voice acting? Anything you dislike?

TEZCA:

Uhh… I’m not sure, it is fun reading your lines and stuff. And I dunno, I don't like how whiny my voice would sound when I’m doing my takes and I’m playing it back in Audacity.

LENA:

Gotcha :D Well, let's talk now about your visual art. You also work with us as an artist. When did you first start drawing?

TEZCA:

When I was young like maybe late teens, dunno. My natural aptitude is not drawing but I guess I found it fun enough to just go ahead and do it even if for my age back then, the drawings would look more like I a five year old drew them.

LENA:

You said you wanted to join the project as a VA, when did you decide to start contributing to cover art?

TEZCA:

I figure it was something else I can do to help out with the project.

LENA:

Fair enough! How do you pick the chapters you make cover art for?

TEZCA:

If the summary is interesting enough and if I get a good idea on what to do that doesn't feel too complicated.

LENA:

And what is your process like for creating the cover art after picking it?

TEZCA:

I look up references, tutorials if I have to, and I use procreate.

LENA:

How do you decide what elements you want to draw? Like what you actually draw, what objects, or characters, or a particular scene...

TEZCA:

Oh, um not sure. Probably if there is something in the summary that I can easily do like CAH or if it reminds me of something that I can use like doing a pseudo country album

LENA:

And how long would that usually take you? From picking the chapter to finished cover art?

TEZCA:

Might be a while before I start doing the art and then it would probably be more than one day barring any annoying issues I run into. I feel like other artists can get it done quicker than I can lol

LENA:

Well, everyone works at different speeds! Especially with work and life getting in the way XD

So what do you like the most and the least about your work as an artist?

TEZCA:

XD true. I like putting pretty colors to it and I guess I don't like any annoying issues I run into.

LENA:

Do you have specific reasons for the color palette in each chapter?

TEZCA:

Oh no, I guess whatever just looks best. Although for the fake album cover one, I wanted that to convey like 'here is a sad country album' lol

LENA:

Fair enough XDD So let's move onto organizing, could you describe your tasks as an organizer?

TEZCA:

I put together the html for a template for AO3. I felt like I can do that since my career is web designing. I find code easier to pick up on and get overall than drawing. Coding seems to be more objective than drawing to me, you can look up how to do something in python or whatever and it would be straightforward for the most part.

LENA:

That's amazing! How did you come to do that?

TEZCA:

I always wanted to do something with computers and web designing was easier than graphic design for me so I went into that. And I figured since I can do html/CSS then I can help out making the template.

LENA:

And what do you like the most and the least about that?

TEZCA:

I like it when the code works lol and I dislike the limitations html wise that AO3 has.

LENA:

Ah, yeah, I've run into those as well... I once wanted to make a code that would let the reader hover/tap on a sentence and the text would display as a translation... but I couldn't make it work, despite my brother actually writing the html, because of the AO3 limitations.

TEZCA:

Yeah, would make things way easier if AO3 got with the times lol

LENA:

I think it's on purpose, from what I heard when I asked the AO3 support team… but it's been a while, I don't remember exactly what they said.

Anyway, let's move onto the final questions. As a voice actress, is there anything about your characters that you can identify with? I realize they're smaller roles.

TEZCA:

Alright. I’m not completely sure. I do enjoy Anat's talking back to someone like an archangel.

LENA:

Really shows her personality, for sure :D What about visual art, do you have a favorite cover art picture, one yours and one by other artists?

TEZCA:

One of mine, I like how the pseudo country album came out. I used a Jon Wolfe album for a reference and I’m not sure for other artists. I like them all! I do like how Vivi made her cover arts too like it’s a neat and nice-to-look-at style.

LENA:

Yeah, I really like her style too :3

Finally, what’s something you’ve learned during this project, either as VA, artist, or organizer (or all)?

TEZCA:

I’m not sure, but I can say the overall experience has been very positive!

LENA:

Well, I'm really happy to hear that! I'm sure that it's been very interesting for our followers to also get to know a bit about you, so thank you for talking with us, Tezca! Tell us, where can people find you online?

TEZCA:

You can fine me at Instagram and twitter at @thisoutlawbit and I’m waylonjenningslittlefield on tumblr

And you're welcome! I enjoyed doing this interview.

LENA:

Awesome! I'm glad you've enjoyed it, and thank you so much! <3

TEZCA:

You're very welcome!

LENA:

So this was all we had for today! Next time, we'll be talking to Nash Nolastname, the voice of Hastur, so keep your ears ready for that!


	13. Interview with Nash Nolastname

**Interview with Nash Nolastname**

We are halfway through the mammoth project that is Crown of Thorns Podrama, and we've got some extra content for you all!  
Along our way, we have managed to gather an amazing team of voice actors, editors, artists, musicians, and organizers.  
This is the start of a series of interviews with the team about their experience and involvement with the Crown of Thorns Podrama.  
We're continuing our interviews with Nash, who is a freelance writer and YouTuber providing the voice for Duke Hastur.  
When they’re not writing, they enjoy creating videos about both gaming and Norse Paganism.  
Having studied theatre, they’ve always had a love of performing, and are honoured to be able to combine this passion with one of their favourite fandoms.  
After first reading and being enthralled by Good Omens over a decade ago, they jumped at the chance to audition for this project and are honoured to be able to provide their voice to this incredible role.

Love,  
The CoT Pod'rama Team

Listen - [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/75ax4UOFAQZ7QyFGv82SR2) / [Anchor](https://anchor.fm/crown-of-thorns-podrama/episodes/Interview-with-Nash-Nolastname-ekipu8)  
Listen and Download - [Archive.org](https://archive.org/details/interview-with-nash-nolastname)

**Where to Find Nash Nolastname**  
[ Youtube ](https://www.youtube.com/user/TheUnusualMonster) / [ Tumblr ](https://nashnolastname.tumblr.com/) / [ Instagram ](https://www.instagram.com/nashnolastname/)

**Interview with Nash Nolastname Team**  
Hosted By - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Composer - [ Nuitarie](https://soundcloud.com/nuitarie) Chapter Artist - [CompassRose](https://outlikethat.tumblr.com/)  
Interview Editor - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Head Editor - [UnholyCrowley](https://archiveofourown.org/users/UnholyCrowley) Transcripts By - [AJfanfic](https://archiveofourown.org/users/ajfanfic)

Length - 25:15 minutes

Question Time Stamps

00:10 Introduction. Where are you from, what do you do aside from fandom?  
01:24 How did you land in fandom?  
02:51 When did you join the online Good Omens fandom?  
05:21 How did you find out about podfic and the podrama?  
07:56 Have you thought of making any podfic of your own aside from CoT?  
08:29 Have you interacted with the podfic community aside from the CoT server?  
09:50 Had you read the CoT fic before knowing about the podrama?  
10:34 Had the fandom quieted down a lot before the TV show?  
11:52 Did you have a character in mind when you auditioned?  
12:30 Was Hastur in your initial picks?  
12:51 What was it like when you heard back and they told you the news?  
13:34 Had you ever before considered voice acting?  
17:30 Does your love for theatre translate to voice acting?  
18:46 Could you describe Hastur from your perspective?  
19:56 Is there something about Hastur you identify with?  
20:50 Is there any other character that you feel like you identify more with?  
21:59 What's something you've learned during this project?  
24:15 Where can people find you online?

Transcript

INTRO MUSIC

LENA:

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the cast and crew Q&A. My name is Lena, and today I have for you an interview with Nash Nolastname. Nash is a freelance writer and YouTuber, providing the voice for Duke Hastur. When they're not writing, they enjoy creating videos about both gaming, and Norse paganism. Having studied theater, they've always had a love for performing and are honored to be able to combine this passion with one of their favorite fandoms. After first reading and being enthralled by Good Omens over a decade ago, they jumped at the chance to audition for this project and are honored to be able to provide their voice to this incredible role. Nash, it's an honor to have you with us today. Tell us a bit about yourself before we start, where are you from? What do you do aside from fandom?

NASH NOLASTNAME:

I'm originally from Chicago, Illinois, and now I live in the middle of Illinois, surrounded by cornfields, which is interesting and great for Internet connection. But aside from fandom, I do a lot of gaming and reading and painting. I went to school for both theater and art. So I do painting in my spare time and stuff like that, or just like writing fics and stuff. That's basically all I do with my time. It’s fun.

LENA:

Sounds like it. How did you land in fandom then? Because it sounds like fandom is a pretty big part of your life.

NASH NOLASTNAME:

So I probably started when I was like in fifth or sixth grade, like the whole Harry Potter phase, that kind of was like sweeping through middle school. So that was like my major thing. And I used to write fics, terrible, terrible fics during middle school involving that fandom. But like, for instance, like one of the- I remember one of the fics that I wrote was so horrible. I don't even know if it exists online anymore. It's called “Roses are Red, Violets are Blue, My father is Voldemort and He's Coming For You”. That was such cringe. And I still cringe every time I remember that that’s a thing. But, oh God, anyway, so that probably started back then and then I've been in a lot of video game fandoms, like Mass Effect. Mass Effect is a huge fandom for me, and Dragon Age. And originally, when I originally read Good Omens, I didn't actually know there was like a fandom for it. Like, when I first read the book, like a decade ago, because I was apparently stupid on the Internet and didn't even think to look for anything. But yeah. And then eventually I found like a lot of people on Tumblr and everything. So that kind of kick-started all of that. And then I heard about this project and of course, I had to audition for it.

LENA:

Right. So when would you say you joined the Good Omens fandom online?

NASH NOLASTNAME:

Online was probably about maybe two years ago, I think. So I'm like more of a lurker, which, yeah, I like kind of like lurk and like, look, I'm like- I don't have any way to, like, really submit art because I don't do a lot of digital art. It's all like traditional and like trying to take pictures of stuff like that is kind of terrible because I can never get the lighting right. So I kind of just lurk and, like, give people thumbs up and do all of that. So I guess it's kind of perfect for Hastur because I'm very good at lurking. So I mastered that art.

LENA:

Oh, that's brilliant. I just recorded an interview with the voice actor for Dagon, they said the exact same thing, which is really funny to me.

NASH NOLASTNAME:

That’s awesome.

LENA:

But yeah, it's pretty perfect. So- but it sounds like you were part of the fandom, so to speak, from the early days of the fandom. So were you aware of what other people were doing even though you weren't contributing?

NASH NOLASTNAME:

Yes, I was. I saw a few things and I kind of lurked on them and enjoyed them in the quiet of my house because I was too afraid to, like, try to do my own things because when I write fics and stuff, usually I like write them for like my friends. So we'll like send them back and forth. And then like I never really post anything because like it tends to like when I start like writing fic, I'll have like a whole story posted in my head and then I'll just like stop writing it like halfway through and go for like two year hiatuses. And it's like, oh yeah, I abandoned you. I'm so sorry. But yeah, it's like I'm in the middle of writing a Fallout 4 fic right now that I started two years ago and I finally picked it back up and it's been like two months since I've started writing it again. And again I'm like, oh yeah, I forgot about you again. I'm sorry, but yeah.

LENA:

Yeah, well, NaNoWriMo is coming up. Do you know [NaNoWriMo](https://nanowrimo.org/)?

NASH NOLASTNAME:

Oh yeah. I always keep meaning to do that every year. Like I'll put it on my calendar and I'll be like OK, we're going to do this. And then inevitably like something comes up and it's like, yeah, you're not going to do this. I'm like, OK, cool. Yeah.

LENA:

Took me a few years to actually sit down and be like, no, this year we're doing it.

NASH NOLASTNAME:

Yes, I need to do that. Yeah.

LENA:

Yeah. And then so you've been aware, I should say of- of fanfic and fan art and everything online for a few years. Do you remember when and how did you find out about podfic?

NASH NOLASTNAME:

How I found out about the podfic, I actually saw that Neil Gaiman had reblogged an ask about it or something, and I was like, oh, I need to do this because it sounds awesome. So, I mean, I really didn't expect anything to come out of it because I really didn't have anything recorded on my computer or anything. So I just kind of like ran to the bathroom really quick and recorded me, I think it was Annabel Lee. I think that was what I recorded myself reading. And I just quickly submitted that. And I really didn't think anything was going to come out of it because I was like, this probably sucks. I'm not going to get anything. But yeah, surprisingly, I, I did. And I mean, I was like elated to be Hastur because Hastur’s awesome. So I was like, yes. That's- it was so surprising, but it was absolutely awesome.

LENA:

Oh, amazing, but how about podfic in general? I meant more like, when were you aware that podfic was a thing that people did on the Internet?

NASH NOLASTNAME:

So I listened to a couple of them, like, years ago, but I never really, like, really thought about it, like especially for like doing myself because, like, I never really- I don't know why. I just never really thought about doing it, even though I do like YouTube videos and I've thought about doing like reading videos of me reading, but I never really thought about like doing any podfics and I never really sought them out either, which is really weird because like I'll put on audiobooks when I'm listening to- or like, I'm working, but like for whatever reason, I just never really thought about it, like consciously, like I knew it was a thing, but I was like- just like this weird disconnect, like I didn't actually like seek it out, which is weird.

LENA:

Yeah, that happens, that happens a lot, I feel like people are very used to reading fanfic, like fanfic is a thing you read.

NASH NOLASTNAME:

Yeah.

LENA:

Or like you don't get to hear about it, like in spoken word, so much. So you're not used to listening to it, I think.

NASH NOLASTNAME:

Yeah.

LENA:

But I hear that from a lot of people and that happens to me as well. Sometimes I will go through months and months where I just don't even think about it and then I'll come back to it. And obviously this year, because we're doing Crown of Thorns, it’s not that year, but I've had years of my life where it was like, oh yeah, that existed. So, like, for sure, I feel you. Have you thought of making any podfic of your own aside from Crown of Thorns?

NASH NOLASTNAME:

Yeah, no, now I actually am since doing this. It's kind of like giving me the confidence to actually like try to do things on my own. So I mean it would be interesting to try to like, well that's actually a good motivation for, you know, finishing my stories that I'm writing because I could actually use those and turn those into my own podfic. But, yeah, I mean, it's going to take a while for that to get done. But definitely I've- I'm definitely going to try to do more in the future, hopefully.

LENA:

Have you interacted any with the podfic community, aside from the server, from Crown of Thorns?

NASH NOLASTNAME:

Lurking. I do a lot of lurking. Like I always feel like I'm going to like irritate people if I, like, start interacting with them or I don't know why, because it's like I have like a couple of discords I'm like a member of but I like never go on there because it's like people start talking and then it's like I don't want to just like interject it and be like, hi, I'm in this conversation now. It just feels like weird to me. I’ll just like watch people talk and I'll be like, OK, that's nice. It's like a daily news reel or something where I'm just like reading what other people are saying. And I'm like, I could respond to this, but then I’d feel like I'm interrupting what you guys are saying. So I'll just sit here and lurk. It's fine.

LENA:

Yeah. Because I know the podfic community has a lot of, a lot of multivoices that are a little bit like Crown of Thorns, though generally I haven't heard of projects as big as this one.

NASH NOLASTNAME:

Yeah.

LENA:

They might exist, I may not be aware, but yeah. If you're thinking of, you know, dipping your feet into podfic, I'm pretty sure it would be easy to find resources and stuff like that.

NASH NOLASTNAME:

Oh yeah, definitely. I'm going to look for those for sure.

LENA:

Well then, good luck, and let us know if you create anything you're really proud of.

NASH NOLASTNAME:

Oh yeah, I will definitely.

LENA:

So going back a little to Crown of Thorns, you told us that you found out about the podrama from Neil Gaiman retweeting something. Did you already know the fanfic?

NASH NOLASTNAME:

Yeah, I had yeah, I had actually read it a while ago and it kind of was just like in the back of my head and I just I didn't even think of anyone turning it into a podfic. And that's why when he reposted it, it kind of like brought it back to my mind. I was like, oh, wow, I read that before. And I was like, this is awesome because, like, I never really thought it would be turned into anything. But since, like, the TV show came out and everything, it was like everyone had this resurgence. Well, especially like resurged interest in Good Omens. So I was like, I definitely gotta look into that more.

LENA:

Right. You were in the fandom before the TV show, would you say the fandom had, like, quieted down a lot?

NASH NOLASTNAME:

I- well, from what I could tell, like there wasn't like- especially like on Tumblr, there wasn't like as many posts from what I could tell. But as soon as, like, the TV show hit, it was like one hundred posts a day, like they kept popping up. I was like, oh wow. OK.

LENA:

Right. Yeah.

NASH NOLASTNAME:

This is great.

LENA:

Cause, I wasn't in the fandom before that, but I got the feeling that the fandom was never truly dead, like there were still people doing stuff like.

NASH NOLASTNAME:

Oh yeah.

LENA:

Just as an example, the fanfic for Crown of Thorns was finished on February last year. So yeah, I still- I don't have the feeling that even though it's a pretty, pretty old fandom, it wasn't that dead, it was just quieter.

NASH NOLASTNAME:

Yeah, it was definitely quieter. But like with the TV show and everything, it was like an explosion of people. It was like, oh OK. It was I actually didn't, I wasn't really expecting it to be as big as it was. I mean, I'm obviously like really grateful that it took off as much as it does or it did. And I just I was really shocked by it. And I'm so grateful that it did, because now we get to do awesome things like this. So, yeah.

LENA:

Fair, fair, fair. And so you told us that you recorded like immediately something in your bathroom to apply, to audition for the project. Did you have a character in mind when you auditioned?

NASH NOLASTNAME:

Not really. Off the top of my head, I know I put down like a bunch of random characters in the application, but I really just wasn't expecting anything to come out of it. So I was just like picking a couple and I was like, here. I mean, if it happens, it happens, if not, I mean, nothing ventured, nothing gained, it's fine. So I wasn't really expecting anything. I didn't really have anyone in mind. So it's just like, OK, we'll just give it a try.

LENA:

And was Hastur in that initial…

NASH NOLASTNAME:

I believe he was. I’m trying to think of all the people I did, I have a terrible memory for remembering things I've done in, like the past week. So I think he was there because, I mean, Hastur’s just so much fun. He's just so delightfully fun to do so. Yeah.

LENA:

And then what was it like when you got- when you heard back from the podrama and they said, hey, you got Hastur?

NASH NOLASTNAME:

I basically did like this dance around my room when I was just like flapping around like an idiot, like, yes! I was like in shock. I had to, like, read the email the first couple of times over and over again, like, am I actually reading this right? And then I just kind of, like, flapped around my room like a weird chicken. Yeah, so it was definitely like a moment of, like, shock and just OK, well, that’s surprising. I don't- OK, like, I didn't even have words for it. I was just so excited to actually have something.

LENA:

You said that you had studied theater. Have you or had you ever before considered voice acting?

NASH NOLASTNAME:

I have because I play a lot of video games, so I've always been fascinated by my voice acting and how I like voice acting can lend so much to a character and it can really, like, bring a character to life as opposed to like just like you could tell, like when there's like characters in games who like are like just out of it. They're like, we don't we don't really want to be here. But when you have, like Jennifer Hale or somebody like, who voices Commander Shepard, it's like that is that character and it's just so iconic. So that kind of always interested me. So I was like, I would love to do something like that. Like that has to be like the funnest job in the world. Like you just go in voice, like these awesome people. And to the extent where, like, some people just like become that character. And it's like, that's just so cool. So, yeah, I've definitely always wanted to do something like that. So it was awesome that I can actually kind of do it in that capacity.

LENA:

Right. Yeah. No, I'm glad you got to do that. There are so many voice actors in the cast that we have that I've met so far that have some sort of background in theater. I find that very interesting because well, I- for example, I have zero background in theater. I not- I'm no longer that shy, but I was painfully shy as a child. I wanted nothing to do with theater. I was never bad at it, but I did not enjoy it. And my school had compulsory theater years. Like every two years our class had to do like obligatory theater play. For Christmas and stuff like that. And I'm not arguing against or for that. It's a good way to get kids to memorize stuff and stuff like that. I just did not want to do that. For me it for me getting into podfic has always been more about the actual words and reading and enjoying reading. But I've met so many people in this cast that just really, really enjoy theatre. It's kind of fascinating to me.

NASH NOLASTNAME:

Oh yeah. I mean, and that was definitely me as a kid. Like, I'm terribly shy when it comes to talking to people I, like, I have to rehearse what I'm saying in my head before, like, I talk to people usually because it's like I have terrible social anxiety. And I think that like theater for me, like the first couple of times I was- I started doing it like I would shake, like, uncontrollably when I was trying to, like, get on stage and everything. But then it kind of became like I kind of like tricked myself into thinking, like I'm- it's not me on the stage. It's the character. So I kind of like put myself in a place where it's like I get to remove myself from the picture and, like, portray somebody else. And that kind of like gave me like pseudo confidence to like get out there and actually do things. But yeah, offstage it's like I, I'm a mess. Like, I can't even like form sentences half the time when I'm talking to people, it's like I am going to say wrong things. I can't do this. But like it's easier on stage for me, especially because you get to like you have the lines. I know what to say, so and I know what I'm supposed to do. So I can do that easier than I can if it's like an unrehearsed social meeting and I'm just standing there awkwardly like a lemon or something.

LENA:

That's a good way to look at it, yeah. Because I feel like especially when I was starting to be like, yeah, I need to get over my shyness because, like, that's something that obviously I had to, like, push myself to do at the beginning. I remember being like, this is social Lena and now I have to talk to people and then I can go home and be quiet for a while.

NASH NOLASTNAME:

Yes, definitely.

LENA:

That's sort of a different part of your personality even.

NASH NOLASTNAME:

Yeah, it's definitely.

LENA:

Like, it’s still you, obviously, but yeah. So, yeah, I get what you're saying.

NASH NOLASTNAME:

Awesome.

LENA:

So would you say you get a lot in character then- when you're performing for voice acting, because obviously if you're in a stage you have to be your character, like, bodily, you have to be them. But for voice acting, does it translate for you?

NASH NOLASTNAME:

Yes, definitely because it helps if I'm like actually like in that mindset and like I can picture like what's going on around me, like in the scene. So I kind of try to like, embody that character to a certain extent. Even if I'm not wearing like a costume or makeup, I can still like be Hastur in my bathroom yelling at people. And that's what I do. And then I look at myself in the mirror and I'm like, what am I doing with my life? But it makes it like, I think it gives more depth to the voice because like, I'm actually like emoting in the comfort of my own bathroom because that's apparently the only space with the best acoustics. So, yeah, it definitely helps for me personally. But I know a lot of other people don't have to do that. I've talked to other people who I went to theatre- I did theatre shows with and they can just like do it on the drop of a hat and it's absolutely cool for them. But it helps for me personally to be able to like, get into the character a bit more. So I feel like it gives more life to the voice. Like it's actually like happening.

LENA:

Yeah, that's cool. So could you describe Hastur, from your perspective a little bit?

NASH NOLASTNAME:

Oh, he's delightfully fun and evil. I mean, there's no doubt about it. He's just this delightful evil being. And I just there's so much I love about him because he's this chaotic person. He's like he's like the raw embodiment of chaos. But at the same time, like, he still has kind of like this little bit of tenderness, for Ligur especially. And it's like it's this weird duality because he doesn't really show it. But there's like little bits of moments where, like, it shows through his veneer where he's like, I actually kind of care about this person, but I'm like painfully to admit it. That's not a proper sentence, but that's fine. Anyway. But yeah, he's just like he's a feature like, oh God, I'm terrible with words, but he's just so much fun. He's like, you know, like how people usually say, like playing the villain is just like a fun good time. You get to do all these terrible things. It's kind of like that. Like he's just so delightfully terrible and I love it. And my dogs barking currently and that's great.

LENA:

Don’t worry. So it sounds like you have a lot of fun voicing Hastur. Is there any particular thing that you identify with?

NASH NOLASTNAME:

I kind of identify with his chaotic-ness, I guess, because like, I'm a terribly chaotic person, like and he's kind of like- I don't want to say like absent-minded, I'm trying to figure out how to phrase it, but he's kind of like all over the place, like when they when- I believe it was in one of the imagine Hastur things, where he's telling Ligur to go grab a couple ducks because he told him that they looked delicious. So he's like, that's reason enough to go grab a couple and then he gets attacked by the ducks. Like, I could see myself trying to do that, like, I'm going to go pet this duck and then I'm going to completely screw everything up. Like, I could see me doing that, just because it’s a thing like, why not, let's go do it. And it's just that that personality, I guess, where he’s kind of like all over the place. And yeah, that's a lot like me.

LENA:

And from the rest of the characters, is there any other character, that you feel like you identify more with or that like immediately brings to you oh yeah, I would do this kind of feelings?

NASH NOLASTNAME:

Oh, God, I'm trying to think, there’s probably like a lot of things that I would do. To be honest. I guess, I want to say almost like Crowley to an extent, because he kind of has an interesting duality going on in him, too, because he's like- like he knows he's supposed to do, what he's supposed to be. But then, like, he's just like the complete opposite of what he's supposed to be. So it's kind of like- because I've been told like, because of the way I dress and everything, that I’m like intimidating when people first meet me and then I'm just like, the sweet little cinnamon bun that everyone wants to protect, and I'm like, OK, so it's like- what’s on the outside doesn't really reflect what's on the inside, so I guess it's kind of like an interesting duality with him that I can relate to.

LENA:

Like you see one thing, but then it's not necessarily matching what's on the inside.

NASH NOLASTNAME:

Yeah.

LENA:

Well, to wrap up, to pose a final question, that's maybe a little big question. What is something that you feel like you've learned during this project?

NASH NOLASTNAME:

I've definitely learned a lot more about like using Audacity. I was looking at my screen because I’d used it a couple of times in the past, but I never actually, like, delved into using it very much. So that was definitely a learning curve for me. And then I had to relearn how to, like, sight read and stuff when I was reading different lines, like I first I would record like a series of lines just on- by sight reading it. And then I would like go back and record one of me memorizing the lines. So I was trying to like, figure out if one was better than the other so I would sit there for like hours and like go through each audio thing and then if one clip sounded better than the other one, I would switch them out. So, yeah, well, it goes back to learning Audacity because I had to learn how to move clips around. So, yeah, probably learning technology and- learning technology, that’s what I learned.

LENA:

Do you memorize your lines, did you just say?

NASH NOLASTNAME:

So, yeah, I memorized them to an extent that I didn't have to like, look at the pages much so I could like emote more to like doing actions and stuff. So I mean, there were still times when I was like, wait, what was I supposed to say again? And then I would say the same line like wrong five times in a row because I memorized it wrong. So I was like, wait, that's not what that says. But yeah.

LENA:

Right, no, that's very cool. I don’t know if many of the people on the project did, but I haven't asked. I actually but- I don't know if most people would memorize the lines or just read them. I know that I would read them because I don't want to memorize stuff. But I- yeah, that's an interesting thing to mention, next time I find someone who's really into theater.

NASH NOLASTNAME:

Oh yeah, definitely. I mean, it's kind of like an old habit because I'm just kind of used to- because I mean, I've done Shakespeare in the past. So it's like if I can memorize those lines, I might as well memorize these.

LENA:

Right, right, no, for sure. And if it helps you to, like, move around then for sure, you would memorize them. I just yeah. That's a cool thought.

NASH NOLASTNAME:

Yeah, well.

LENA:

Awesome. Thank you very much for talking with us, Nash. And tell us, where can people find you online?

NASH NOLASTNAME:

You can find me online, usually on YouTube. Nash Nolastname is my YouTube channel and on Tumblr it is also Nash Nolastname and Instagram. So yep, that's where you can find me. I'm lurking. I'm there.

LENA:

Awesome. Thank you very much.

NASH NOLASTNAME:

Yes. Thank you.

LENA:

So this was all we had for this time. Next time we'll be talking to Tartansea, the voice of Dagon and the Steward, so keep your ears ready for that.

OUTRO MUSIC


	14. Interview with Tartansea

**Interview with tartansea**

We are halfway through the mammoth project that is Crown of Thorns Podrama, and we've got some extra content for you all!  
Along our way, we have managed to gather an amazing team of voice actors, editors, artists, musicians, and organizers.  
This is the start of a series of interviews with the team about their experience and involvement with the Crown of Thorns Podrama.  
We're continuing our interviews with tartansea, who is a voice actor for the CoT Podrama Project. They voice Dagon and the Steward.  
They became a fan of Good Omens after reading the book in 2009 and became a fan of Crown of Thorns starting not too long after, when they took a dive off the deep end in search for as much GO content as possible.  
tartansea has also cosplayed their own book version of Aziraphale at several cons throughout the years.  
They used to create books-on-tape in college and were excited to be able to finally contribute to the online GO fandom in some small way.

Love,  
The CoT Pod'rama Team

Listen - [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/3SPsYXi4tqRMByZN5L8rqJ) / [Anchor](https://anchor.fm/crown-of-thorns-podrama/episodes/Interview-with-Tartansea-ekrsni)  
Listen and Download - [Archive.org](https://archive.org/details/interview-with-tartansea)

**Where to Find tartansea**   
[Tumblr](https://tartansea.tumblr.com/)

**Interview with tartansea Team**  
Hosted By - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Composer - [ Nuitarie](https://soundcloud.com/nuitarie) Chapter Artist - [CompassRose](https://outlikethat.tumblr.com/)  
Interview Editor - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Head Editor - [UnholyCrowley](https://archiveofourown.org/users/UnholyCrowley) Transcripts By - [AJfanfic](https://archiveofourown.org/users/ajfanfic)

Length - 21:22 minutes

&;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;p align="left"&;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;Question Time Stamps&;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;/p&;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt; &;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;p class="p1"&;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;00:10&;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; &;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; Introduction. Tell us a bit about yourself, where are you from, what do you do aside from fandom?&;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;br /&;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;02:57&;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; &;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; How did you land in fandom?&;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;br /&;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;04:14&;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; &;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; Were you in online fandom at the time?&;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;br /&;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;04:47&;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; &;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; When did you start to join the internet side of fandom?&;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;br /&;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;05:39&;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; &;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; How are you finding the interactions within the team?&;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;br /&;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;07:18&;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; &;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; How did you get into cosplay?&;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;br /&;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;08:21&;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; &;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; Are you into theater?&;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;br /&;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;08:59&;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; &;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; How and when did you find out podfic existed?&;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;br /&;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;09:34&;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; &;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; Have you done any podfics of your own?&;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;br /&;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;09:58&;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; &;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; Have you considered recording podfic, even if you haven't?&;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;br /&;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;10:27&;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; &;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; Do you listen to podfics?&;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;br /&;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;13:52&;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; &;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; How did you find CoT?&;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;br /&;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;14:59&;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; &;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; When did you find out about the podrama?&;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;br /&;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;15:21&;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; &;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; Did you consider auditioning from the beginning?&;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;br /&;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;16:27&;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; &;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; Did you have a character in mind when you auditioned?&;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;br /&;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;17:21&;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; &;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; What is it like being Dagon?&;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;br /&;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;18:24&;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; &;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; If you could describe Dagon in a few words, what would they be?&;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;br /&;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;19:06&;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; &;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; Is there any character you identify with?&;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;br /&;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;19:49&;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; &;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; What's something that you've learned during this project?&;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;br /&;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;20:28&;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; &;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp; Where can people find you online?&;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;/p&;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt; &;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;p&;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;&;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;nbsp;&;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;/p&;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt; &;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;p&;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;Transcript&;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;/p&;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt; &;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;p&;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;INTRO MUSIC&;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;/p&;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt; 

Question Time Stamps

00:10 Introduction. Tell us a bit about yourself, where are you from, what do you do aside from fandom?  
02:57 How did you land in fandom?  
04:14 Were you in online fandom at the time?  
04:47 When did you start to join the internet side of fandom?  
05:39 How are you finding the interactions within the team?  
07:18 How did you get into cosplay?  
08:21 Are you into theater?  
08:59 How and when did you find out podfic existed?  
09:34 Have you done any podfics of your own?  
09:58 Have you considered recording podfic, even if you haven't?  
10:27 Do you listen to podfics?  
13:52 How did you find CoT?  
14:59 When did you find out about the podrama?  
15:21 Did you consider auditioning from the beginning?  
16:27 Did you have a character in mind when you auditioned?  
17:21 What is it like being Dagon?  
18:24 If you could describe Dagon in a few words, what would they be?  
19:06 Is there any character you identify with?  
19:49 What's something that you've learned during this project?  
20:28 Where can people find you online?

Transcript

INTRO MUSIC

LENA:

Hello, everyone, and welcome to our cast and crew Q&A. My name is Lena, and today I have for you an interview with Tartansea. Tartansea is a voice actor for the CoT podrama project. They voice Dagon and the steward. They became a fan of Good Omens after reading the book in 2009 and became a fan of Crown of Thorns starting not too long after when they took a dive off the deep end in search for as much Good Omens as possible. Tartansea has also cosplayed their own book version of Aziraphale at several cons throughout the years. They used to create books on tape in college and were excited to be able to finally contribute to the online Good Omens fandom in some small way. Tartansea, it's an honor to have you with us today. Tell us a bit about yourself before we start. Where are you from and what do you do aside from fandom?

TARTANSEA:

So I'm in America on the East Coast, which, as you probably know, is a very tumultuous place right now, unfortunately, especially we've gotten some bad news about the Supreme Court recently, which I'm really stressing about. But I'm not going to go into negative stuff because I try to focus on the positive. So, that's sort of my M.O. is like trying to make sure like even if we're going through all these tough stuff that I try to stay a little positive because I believe in people overall and I hope that we can figure things out together. Other than fandom, I work, I hang out with my friends, I play board games, and I read a lot.

LENA:

Do you have a favorite genre for reading?

TARTANSEA:

So other than fanfic, of course, I love all of Terry Pratchett's books, and just because he also believes in humanity in some small way and I like mystery novels, too, I think they’re a lot of fun. But I think probably my favorite is like dystopian literature, because I just- It's both funny and disheartening at the same time, because you'll read literature that was published 20 years ago and they're like, oh no, this dystopian world that's being ruined by climate change and you're like, cool, here we are. We learn nothing.

LENA:

Right? Yeah. It's based on stuff that's already happening, but worse sometimes.

TARTANSEA:

Yeah. And I think it's always funny, that’s laugh when I read dystopian books. They always have one thing that's usually in common, which is that everything starts in the United States, in California, which to be fair, probably true, given all the [inaduible] and stuff.

LENA:

Yeah, yeah, that's true. I recently read a novella, it was well, it was actually based in Russia. I don't remember how it started, but it was also based on, yeah, somehow climate change got out of hand. Yeah, that's very true. So what about fandom then, how did you land in fandom?

TARTANSEA:

Like, how did I find- I'm not sure, I mean-

LENA:

Yeah, the beginning.

TARTANSEA:

Just in the beginning, I guess so I think with everybody, usually it either starts with the Internet or you know people in a fandom. I didn't have television very often so I didn’t get into any TV fandoms until I was like in college. But for, like books and stuff, I would just talk to them with my friends and then getting into, like the Good Omens fandom that was probably in like, I don't want to say, but about ten years ago. I was in college and Neil Gaiman came to speak. And that sort of prompted me to start reading some of his books, because I think at that time he had just published The Graveyard Book. And so he read an excerpt from it. I was like, hey, that's pretty good. So then I kind of like read Coraline and then started reading some more of his stuff, like the Smoke and Mirrors collection. And then obviously, my friend was like, you need to read Good Omens. It's about an angel and demon who clearly love each other. So that's right up your alley. And I was like, OK, little did I know that it would affect the rest of my life. But then, of course, I read the Terry Pratchett books and then couldn't stop, so.

LENA:

And were you in, like online fandom at the time or just with your friends?

TARTANSEA:

So just kind of with my friends, I'm really shy on the Internet, I don't like to give a lot of personal like details, even though I've said some, I try to keep it really vague because I don't necessarily trust people on the Internet, which is really funny right now. But, yeah, it was kind of more like hate to put myself in the category of Hastur and Ligur, but it was more of a lurking thing for me.

LENA:

Right. Right. And when did you, if at all, start to join the Internet side of fandom, more then?

TARTANSEA:

So that was probably like high school and started learning like fanfiction dot net and so like, DeviantArt, I'm really showing my age now. But I just remember, like, kind of commenting on some of the like the old guard of Good Omens, like obviously AJ, they were there, but like QuantumWitch and like VulgarWeed, and Dagur and I just remember like reading those stories and just like putting my shy little wow, this is amazing comments on the bottom. But I just didn't really interact a lot until like this discord, the Good- the Crown of Thorns podrama. I didn't really interact until now.

LENA:

And how are you finding that?

TARTANSEA:

I love it. I'm still really shy, so I don't comment a lot, but. I love seeing people sharing their stuff and talking about different viewpoints when they talk about, like the book or the show, and I think it's just really neat because especially with this community, we've been doing this since, I think November of last year. I think it's really amazing that we've really run into very few hardships, like problems between people. For a group that is big as ours, I think that's really amazing. Like, obviously, we're going to have some problems here and there, but we've really kind of like talked about it. And that's really difficult to do online because you can write something and you get some sort of weird connotations from it that you maybe don't intend. But I think this group is really good about that, about listening to each other and contributing.

LENA:

Yeah, and I think it's good- we go in without preconceptions because we all come from different backgrounds. So sometimes even there is like a slight language barrier, like sometimes we will say things and will not be aware of the connotations in English. And I think we're doing really good with that. I agree. It's awesome talking to everybody and knowing that we are going to be able to talk through things. When we find something that we perhaps don't agree at the beginning and then we will find something to agree on.

TARTANSEA:

Exactly. And I think one of my favorite things, I forget who did it in the group, but put together like a map of where everybody is from, just like vaguely. I thought that was so cool to see everybody from all over the world like, that's amazing.

LENA:

Yeah. We have so many different countries and locations in general. Yeah. So you told us in your intro that you also do some cosplay, so how did you get into cosplaying?

TARTANSEA:

Oh, gosh, I'm not outing myself by telling you what anime it was, but if you could think of the most embarrassing one, it's probably that one. But so- we have a lot of conventions on the East Coast, and one of my friends in high school was telling me about it, and we like played hooky one day our senior year and went to one of the conventions and it changed my life. So I just think it's really cool and creative because I come from like, my immediate family is very artsy. So, like, we're all like draw or write or kind of just give performance art and stuff like that. So I think it's really neat to see what people come up with and not just like they're trying to mimic the characters, but also like they're putting their own interpretation on them. And I think it's just really cool the way people think about different things that can be used around the house and different interpretations of the character.

LENA:

And is that- are you into theater that way, or is that something you haven't tried, because of that interpreting of characters?

TARTANSEA:

So I did do theater when I was younger, but I don't do it anymore. I'm tempted to start a theater group at my work, but I'm going to need some help. So unfortunately, given the pandemic, that's not really a thing that we can do in person now. So we're trying to think of ways maybe we can do it virtually.

LENA:

Right, well, all the good luck with that then.

TARTANSEA:

Thank you.

LENA:

Yeah. And then how did you and when, I guess, when did you find out that podfic existed?

TARTANSEA:

Oh, gosh, I don't know, it wasn't that long ago, maybe like two years or something. I don't- I just like scrolling on Archive of Our Own, and I think I just saw, like, the recording, the podfic tag, and I didn't know that that was something that people do like. Obviously, I knew audiobooks and stuff existed, but I didn't really think about, like, oh, hey, that's something that people could do and put on the Internet. That would be really cool.

LENA:

Right. And have you done any podfic of your own, aside from Crown of Thorns?

TARTANSEA:

I have not, I don't have a good area in my house where I can work on it, so I'm often interrupted and sometimes I'll be recording Crown of Thorns in like- at like 3:00 in the morning when it's actually quiet.

LENA:

Yeah, that’s a mood. Have you considered recording podfic for yourself then, even if you haven't?

TARTANSEA:

Not really, I just I have so much that's going on in my life, I bow down to the people who have the time to do that, like bless them because it's amazing how much people can do. But I just, I have ADHD and I'm on to the next thing.

LENA:

Right. But do you listen to podfics?

TARTANSEA:

Not really, no.

LENA:

Not really, yeah.

TARTANSEA:

I mean, I listen to the- I've listened to like a couple of the Crown of Thorns, but I just- like I said, I read a lot, so that's mainly where I get the information.

LENA:

Because I find that there are a lot of people who enjoy creating podfic, and this happens to me as well, but then you don't have quite as much time to listen to it or sometimes you don't even enjoy it as much as creating it. So it's kind of interesting how that plays out sometimes because- and I think you may relate to this because you said about interpreting characters, sometimes for me podfic is more about creating a new interpretation of the written words. So for me, that's what I personally enjoy. And I think some of the people feel that way. So I don't know how you view that.

TARTANSEA:

That's a really good point. I know you obviously can't see me, but I'm like sitting here nodding like, yeah, that sounds right. I should listen to more. I should make time for myself to do that, I think. One of the things I'm more of like, I don't know, it's like a visual learner and I need to see the words in front of me, but when I do listen to like when I listen to, like the chapters of Crown of Thorns, I actually have AJ’s fic up in front of me because I can't like I can't get it in my head unless I have it in front of me and I'm listening to it. Does that make sense?

LENA:

Totally, I do that, too, sometimes. Or even with audiobooks, I do like reading published books through audiobooks, because I do that when I'm on the bus or like running around for chores and stuff like that. But sometimes I will find myself like going back in the audiobook because I just- if I'm not reading visually, sometimes my mind will wander. So, yeah, I totally, totally get that.

TARTANSEA:

Yeah, exactly. Like so I- before a pandemic hit and I'm working from home, I used to have like a 30 to an hour-long commute and I would listen to stuff mostly podcast, but like that's the only way I could pay attention because like I said I have ADD. And so I have to be doing two things at once, which is like driving and listening in order to focus on both of them, which is weird, but like, who knows.

LENA:

Yeah, no, that happens, yeah. I don't have anything diagnosed either. But I, I do find that when I'm listening to a podcast or audiobooks or stuff like that, I like to play- I’m either doing chores or I like to play phone games, like those mindless phone games that are like matching tiles or stuff like that. So, yeah, I do that.

TARTANSEA:

I think it's also like sort of a product of the times right now, because it's in our face, like you have to be doing more than one thing at once, unfortunately, in order to enjoy yourself because you feel like, if I'm not doing two things, I'm only doing one, and that's not good enough or something like that. So sometimes I feel that way, even if it is, like you said.

LENA:

Maybe. Or maybe just because I'm used to doing more things than just listening to a story, so sometimes I will be like, I can't focus on your story because my mind is wandering, so I need something else.

TARTANSEA:

Yeah.

LENA:

Yeah. Well, to go back to Crown of Thorns a little bit. So tell us, how did you find the story? Did you find the story first and then the project, or did you find the story through the project? What was it like?

TARTANSEA:

So after I read Good Omens, I just devoured everything I could find, which was not like a ton at the time, but it was a lot. Like obviously now it's like 10 times as much. But I did find AJ’s stuff, and I read Crown of Thorns and then ended up doing it as they were publishing it. I didn't quite finish it before the podrama came on, because I know they finished it in February 2019, I think was like Valentine's Day, which tells you how much I follow it. But I have like this thing where if I like something a lot, I don't want it to end. So sort of like, OK, maybe I'll just reread it again and maybe push myself through the last like- I think I only had like eight chapters left and I just couldn't do it because I didn't want it to be over. So that's where I'm at now.

LENA:

And then when did you find out about the podrama?

TARTANSEA:

So actually, they- so AJ put it on their Tumblr and I saw it on there and I was like, oh my gosh, I can't let this opportunity go to waste. I have to, like, at least try to contribute to this because their fic is so amazing. And I just- I want to show my appreciation for that.

LENA:

And did you consider from the beginning, just auditioning?

TARTANSEA:

I did, because I do like to like do voices or just like read out loud, it's something I do often at home with my family and I really just wanted to do that because, like, while, I am somewhat of an artist, I’m not good enough for some of the other artists that we have on our team. I would be too embarrassed to put my work up there because I just doodle for fun. So I was like, this is finally a way that I can contribute. That's not art and not writing, but it's helping to perform and increase the knowledge of this wonderful fic. So that's that.

LENA:

Because I was wondering, because you said earlier that your family is really artsy. So I was thinking maybe you also do visual arts, but yeah.

TARTANSEA:

A little. But they're not great. I need more practice. I do it for my own enjoyment and for my friends, but not for the internet. Not yet.

LENA:

That's perfectly fine. So what about the auditions, did you have a character in mind when you auditioned, or was it more of a size of the role that you wanted to audition for?

TARTANSEA:

It was more of a size, I knew I couldn't commit to something huge, but I also wanted to be able to contribute more than like one or two lines. So I was actually- I didn't- I think I put some characters down, but honestly, it didn't matter to me because, as I said, I just wanted to contribute. And so I was really happy with the role that I was given. And I appreciate everyone listened to my probably long and everyone's long auditions because I’m sure that was an incredibly stressful and interminable process. So kudos to them. So I was actually very happy with the role that I have.

LENA:

I'm glad you got someone you're happy with. So, what is it like, being Dagon?

TARTANSEA:

So I love that Dagon has more of a personality, obviously, much more information about him than is in the book. And I guess the show, I've seen the show once. That was enough for me. I don't mean that in a bad way, but I just mean like I'm OK with it. But just sort of building on the character. That's one of the things that I love about AJ’s work, is that they take these characters that are very small or characters that don't exist and really build them up to proportions where they're very lifelike. And so when I look at Dagon and his relationship with Tanith and her relationship with Uriel and her relationship with Raphael, it's really neat to sort of pull those all together and sort of come up with what Dagon is feeling right now and about seeing Aziraphale and Crowley surviving what they've gone through with heaven and hell and all of that stuff, and seeing that maybe Dagon can have like a small piece of happiness too.

LENA:

If you could describe Dagon in a few words, from your perspective, what would you say about him?

TARTANSEA:

I think that he is very- he tries to come across as very brusque and I think he does most of the time, but also in that manner where you're like nobody feels really close with him. So he's sort of by himself. And coming to sort of terms with that and sort of letting people like Tanith in and sort of talking to Crowley like after the wedding and saying, like you- he sort of says it in like a very few stilted words, but he does care and that he does see what's happened, and he does understand.

LENA:

Well, that's really cool, then. Is there any other character that you identify with? It can be canon or original characters.

TARTANSEA:

I identify with a lot of those characters just because they portray, very ironically, very human emotions and just sort of the- I think one of the overall struggles that I noticed a lot is the struggle with communication. And so I too struggle with that, I’m either too blunt or not obvious enough. And so in that way, I feel like I relate to a lot of those characters.

LENA:

Well, then I'm glad that this story touched you in such a way. As for our final question, what is something that you feel like you've learned during this project?

I guess on a fluffy note, I learned that everybody on the Internet is not as scary. So, there's some wonderful people in this project, people that I maybe not have talked to specifically, but I see them talking in the voice and the chat and discord. And I think I just- I don't know. It warms my heart to see people communicating in that sort of way over literature. And I think that's really cool, especially a book that's like 30 years old. So still connecting in that sense.

LENA:

Well, thank you for talking with us, Tartansea. Tell us, where can people find you online?

TARTANSEA:

Like I said, pretty shy online, so tartansea.tumblr.com is probably the only place you can find me. I hope.

LENA:

I imagine so then. Thank you very much.

TARTANSEA:

Thank you.

LENA:

So this was all we had for today. Next time we'll be talking to Djap, the voice of Newt, and editor and beta listener for the project, so keep your ears ready for that.

OUTRO MUSIC


	15. Interview with Djap

**Interview with Djap**

We are halfway through the mammoth project that is Crown of Thorns Podrama, and we've got some extra content for you all!  
Along our way, we have managed to gather an amazing team of voice actors, editors, artists, musicians, and organizers.  
This is the start of a series of interviews with the team about their experience and involvement with the Crown of Thorns Podrama.  
We're continuing our interviews with Djap, who is a voice actor, editor and beta listener for the CoT project.  
He started to record and publish podfics for various fandoms (mostly fantasy and science fiction) about 5 years ago.  
Before this, he used to write fanfictions in various fandoms for over 20 years - both in English and in his mother tongue German.  
The works of Terry Pratchett have been part of his life since he was a teenager and discovered his books in the local library.  
He is always interested in learning new things and is very grateful to be a part of this huge and exciting project.

Love,  
The CoT Pod'rama Team

Listen - [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/533NztszH4jtCjFYDsbhry) / [Anchor](https://anchor.fm/crown-of-thorns-podrama/episodes/Interview-with-Djap-el7dmd)  
Listen and Download - [Archive.org](https://archive.org/details/interview-with-djap)

**Where to Find Djap**  
[AO3](https://archiveofourown.org/users/Djapchan) / [Fanfiction.net](https://www.fanfiction.net/u/1054981/Djap)

**Interview with Djap Team**  
Hosted By - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Composer - [ Nuitarie](https://soundcloud.com/nuitarie) Chapter Artist - [CompassRose](https://outlikethat.tumblr.com/)  
Interview Editor - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Head Editor - [UnholyCrowley](https://archiveofourown.org/users/UnholyCrowley) Transcripts By - [AJfanfic](https://archiveofourown.org/users/ajfanfic)

Length - 54:38 minutes

Question Time Stamps

00:10 Introduction, Where are you from, what do you do aside from fandom?  
01:38 How did you first land in fandom?  
02:41 Have you read Good Omens?  
05:22 How do you find podfic and writing different/similar?  
10:08 When did you find out podfic existed?  
14:37 When did you start using AO3/fanfiction,net?  
15:39 Have you ever thought of bringing your ff.net fics to AO3?  
21:40 Had you done any other acting/voice acting before podfic?  
22:16 Do you think voice acting is different because you can record on your own?  
23:47 How have you found the podfic community?  
26:20 Had you read the CoT fic before?  
26:58 How did you find out about the podrama?  
29:18 What was the process for the audition, since you joined later on?  
30:04 Did you audition specifically for Newt?  
30:44 What is it like being Newt?  
31:04 Could you describe Newt from your perspective?  
32:04 What do you like the most and the least about being a voice actor?  
32:51 When did you decide to join as an editor?  
34:08 How are you finding the editing process, as compared to other multivoices you've participated in?  
34:57 What do you like the most and the least about being an editor?  
38:41 Why do you like multivoices so much?  
42:03 How did you become a beta listener?  
43:29 Are you enjoying being a beta listener?  
44:17 Have you ever worked with beta readers for your fics?  
45:25 Do you find beta readers similar/different from working with beta readers?  
50:40 What is something about Newt that you identify with?  
51:59 Is there any other character that you feel like you identify with more?  
52:20 What is something you've learned during this project?  
53:10 Where can people find you online?

Transcript

INTRO MUSIC:

LENA:

Hello, everyone, and welcome to our cast and crew Q&A. My name is Lena, and today I have for you an interview with Djap. Djap is a voice actor, editor, and beta listener for the Crown of Thorns Project. He started to record and publish podfics for various fandoms, mostly fantasy and science fiction about five years ago. Before this, he used to write fanfictions in various fandoms for over 20 years, both in English and in his mother tongue, German. The works of Terry Pratchett have been part of his life since he was a teenager and discovered his books in the local library. He's always interested in learning new things and is very grateful to be a part of this huge and exciting project. Djap, it's an honor to have you with us today. Tell us a bit about yourself before we start. Where are you from and what do you do aside from fandom?

DJAP:

Hi! Thank you for having me. I'm glad to be here today. I live in Germany, close to the French border. And in real life, I work, very boring, in an office. And I actually don't know what's the proper English term for it. I help make the website look good, but I'm not a web designer. I just- I make sure that the products are showing correctly, that customers can find the products correctly, so that's what I've been doing for roughly eight years now. So, yeah, just an office job.

LENA:

And what about fandom? How did you first land in fandom?

DJAP:

I've been living in fandom pretty much since I was 13 and discovered Star Trek. I was a huge Star Trek fan and I actually wrote the very first fanfics in my life when I was 13 and I wrote Spock/Kirk, very classic and actually knowing- Actually, before knowing that this was a thing. I wrote about them not knowing that anybody else in the world did that too. So, yeah, that was my starting fandom.

LENA:

So you started writing already?

DJAP:

Yes, yes, very early. I- Actually writing I started even earlier when I was 11, but writing for fandoms for various fandoms, I started with 13.

LENA:

And at the time- or I guess when did you read the Good Omens book or have you read the Good Omens book?

DJAP:

I have only read a few passages until now. I have to admit I skip through it a lot. I used to read everything from Terry Pratchett that I could get, but there's this thing where they do collections of stories from other authors. At least they did that like 10 years ago, and they do it in honor of Terry Pratchett. And you very quickly buy a book of other people's stories thinking you bought a Terry Pratchett book. And that is what put me off buying Good Omens, because I thought it might be something similar. I just saw two authors and thought, oh, no, this is one of these. I'm not going to touch that. I know better now.

LENA:

Right. Yeah, because you're bio said that- you had read like Terry Pratchett a lot. So I thought you had read the book.

DJAP:

I know.

LENA:

Right, right. Right. And are you planning to read it now that you know better or?

DJAP:

I have it here. Yes, of course. I have started to read it again. I've read probably a third of it, skipping through it to passages that I liked. What I did listen to completely was the radio production. I love that, I listened to that three times now, at least. And I'm, of course, a fan of the show. That's how I got here. I intend to read the book as well. Yes.

LENA:

Yeah, I mean, that's fine. Different people, different mediums. It's OK. I just thought you had because of your bio. But that's my bad.

DJAP:

Pretty much everything else, I’ve actually even read a few Gaiman, aside from Good Omens. I have actually a book here right next to me. I studied archaeology at university, so I always like everything with ancient history. So I have this Nordic Myths book from Neil Gaiman here. And I didn't realize- like a few weeks ago I realized, oh my God, I have a Neil Gaiman book and I didn't know. I just didn’t pay any attention to the author. I just like the stories. So pretty much everything else, but not Good Omens.

LENA:

Right. Well, maybe at some point then.

DJAP:

Yes.

LENA:

So going on a bit, because you have done podfic, right? You have done podfic for five years now. So how do you find writing and podficcing different or perhaps similar?

DJAP:

Similar in the amount of time you spend with a story. If you write something, it's your baby. You want to make it good. You want people to enjoy it. You want basically to write the best story that you can tell. And sometimes I think- I think it's not for everybody who does podfics the same, but for me, I do spend a lot of time with the stories I record. I- Yeah, I want to make it the best way possible, I- at some point I cut out all the breathing I did to make it sound smooth. I- actually, I stopped doing that. Yeah. I would never finish anything. But, yeah, I just I really like spending time with that, that story too and for me, I invest the same amount of time trying to tell other people this beautiful story from somebody else that I just fell in love with and want to share of- in other ways than just the written word. And so it's like kind of adopting the story a tiny bit, not in the way that it's, like it's my story, but I really want to do my very best doing that. So I think these feelings, when I work with either podfic or a fic is the same for me. Where it's different is definitely a time aspect, in the whole thing. Writing takes me forever and recording podfic takes me some time, but not forever. I will always finish a podfic much quicker than anything I write. So that's for me, the biggest difference. I simply don't have the time to write as much as I used to, but I can still produce a podfic in a short amount of time and give the fandom something back.

LENA:

I guess, instead of being- Because you said it's similar in the way that you spent a lot of time in both, but it's different in that you spent less time with podfic. So I guess with-

DJAP:

With the type I mean, the way- how invested I am to make it a good thing. Yes. I really- I could just record it and cut out anything where I misspoke or needed to repeat something and that would be it. But I really listen usually twice to the podfic after recording it and just changing spaces between sentences to make it flow better, to sound good. I might- just two of my latest podfics that I uploaded, I kind of treated like multivoice podfics, although I read everything. I read only the narration and then I read the characters because it had a lot more than the usual two. Mostly I would just read Aziraphale and Crowley stories and then I can just do the two voices, but it had five or six different voices and that's hard if you're not in practice doing that. And I wanted to do different voices, so I spent the extra time recording an extra- making every voice line as good as I could make it, and then putting it back into a narration. I could have just read the whole thing in one go and be done with it, but I invested the time to do the best I could do. That's what I meant. Sorry.

LENA:

Yeah. So it's more like the care you put into it is pretty much the same.

DJAP:

Yes.

LENA:

Yeah. Yeah, that makes- that makes a lot of sense. I feel like that is- feels the same for me because even though I don't particularly enjoy editing, neither audio nor writing, I do it because I care so much for the story that I'm telling that I want to put in that work. And yeah, like same as you, writing takes me longer, but I want to put in the same kind of care and work that I put into recording a podfic. So when did you find out podfic existed? How did you find out, oh, this is the thing people do. And was it like just before you started recording your own podfic, or did it take you a long time to start recording?

DJAP:

Oh, I actually don't know when I found the first podfics. I was definitely in fandom for a long time. That was one author, the name is **Speranza**. They write to Due South and Stargate Atlantis. And I think at the moment they write Marvel MCU stuff. And I love their works, I used to love their works, I'm not so much in the whole Tony- Not Tony. What's his name? Captain America and Bucky stuff. That's not my thing, but I used to love the older works in the older fandoms. Oh, Sentinel. They started out with Sentinel I think, and I was a huge Sentinel fan back then and their works are just very, very good. And pretty much they have a- I didn't read their works on ao3 or fanfiction.net or anything. I read them on their own website.

LENA:

Oh, wow.

So on that website, they also had podfics and that is definitely 10, maybe 15 years ago. So it was very, very early. And back then I actually tried to record myself, some stories that I wrote, which to this day I think is weird. I don't enjoy reading my own stories.

LENA:

No, me neither. Like I relate. Yeah.

DJAP:

So I tried that. It was a Harry Potter story at that time. Funnily enough, about the Seven Deadly Sins, but that never was posted anywhere or anything. And yeah, I was very busy at the time and didn't get around to play a lot with that, so. I didn't do anything further with it. Back then, I was even writing in German, so it might even have been longer. I don’t know, so, yeah, not very suited to share anyway, it is always better if you can share something in English because more people will see it and be able to enjoy it. And then. I kind of stopped liking to write. I switched to writing in English, and at first, it was fine, but I never could really make it work as good as I wanted it to. And the more English I used, I use a lot of English in my- in real life, too. I worked for a US company, for example. So all my e-mails are English. And I usually watch anything on TV, if I can, in English. So the more I did that, the worse my German writing got. But I never got to the point where I enjoyed my English writing, so at some point I just stopped writing.

LENA:

Right.

DJAP:

And I still wanted to give the community something back because there are all these wonderful stories that- That make my life better when I'm not feeling good, when I'm feeling sad or depressed or something. And I also always liked the idea of being able to take your favorite stories everywhere. So I gave podfics another try. That was five years ago now. Yeah, so that's it. That's pretty much why I started it.

LENA:

Awesome. When did you make the jump from that specific personal website to ao3 and fanfiction.net?

DJAP:

I used to be on fanfiction.net since 2006, so that was before I found this private website. And I actually don't know when I started on ao3, but it might have been 2013, 2014, and mostly because I was not happy about the things going on on fanfiction.net. I just didn't like a few things in their policy and I wanted to move to a new archive. I never actually did, most of my stuff is still on fanfiction.net, but I don't post anything there anymore. I just leave my old stuff there.

LENA:

Yeah, fair enough. And have you ever thought of bringing it to ao3? Because I have the same problem as you. Well, problem, the same situation, I guess, because I used to post a lot more on fanfiction.net and now I only crosspost to that website for a single fandom that like, most of the fandom is still there, but otherwise I just never use it. And I don't know if it's worth the time to pass everything from fanfiction.net to ao3. What do you think?

DJAP:

For me, it's definitely not worth the time because I don't like very much like my old stories. They are very old and some of them, in my opinion, are not very good and not worth moving. And the other thing is I sometimes have trouble with ao3- the not the scripting, not the editing, what's the word?

LENA:

HTML?

DJAP:

Yeah, I can do HTML, but if you simply copy something from fanfiction.net and try to paste it to ao3, it will lose all of it.

LENA:

All the format.

DJAP:

Yeah.

LENA:

Oh, there is a way to get around that. I have- I don't know where I got it from, but I can probably post the link I guess. I think it's a Google Drive sort of template where it has an option to convert simple format into HTML, that like you can then just copy paste with the with the format and keep it.

([AO3 posting script](https://docs.google.com/document/d/19eZnBQ4989Dr17v2ODFgE8QWAo9Oahi4USDNS3hOSvM/edit?usp=sharing) for all your posting needs!)

DJAP:

Oh okay.

LENA:

Like, if you don't want to do the formatting on your own, you can just download the fanfiction.net file because I think fanfiction.net that allows you to download files in word format.

DJAP:

I don't know.

LENA:

I could swear it used to do that. Let me check real quick. Just any story. Oh, it might not let you do that anymore.

DJAP:

Yeah. It changes all the time.

LENA:

But it still lets you copy paste or not? No, it doesn't. Fanfiction.net has changed so much. I'm not all that happy with it, I admit.

DJAP:

Yeah. Again, there were a lot of things going on that I was not happy about, so I just decided to-

LENA:

Yeah, fair enough. But can you- you should be able to access your own stories, right, like if you go to your own stories. Because I just went to my own account and what you can do is you can go to your own stories and go to manage stories, find the story you want to find and click download. And it opens a page where you can copy paste it. So like it should you do that if you are so interested. But like you said, if it's like an old story, sometimes it might not be worth it.

DJAP:

Yeah.

LENA:

But yeah, I- Let me see if it helps, so I just copy paste that and it does keep the format. Yeah, it does give you a format if you do that, but I guess it has to be your own story for you to be able to copy paste it.

DJAP:

Ok, well, that's fair enough, actually. At least that way you can’t easily steal something.

LENA:

Yeah, true.

DJAP:

Because that happened to me, actually, with one story.

LENA:

Sorry to hear that. I don't think it ever happened to me. But then again, I was never- I still am not all that big in fandom.

DJAP:

Yes, but that's the thing. I was just. Oh that one story that people liked instantly got, so-

LENA:

Fair enough. Were you writing in really big fandoms?

DJAP:

I think I just- think I did the opposite, I just wrote something for a pairing that's pretty rare and it was a pretty long story compared to others and pretty different to how the pairing is usually written. It's like- it's X-Men, Remy/Logan.

LENA:

I’m not familiar with X-Men, but I do feel like that's sort of slightly bigger fandom than usual, like even if the pairing is not that big.

DJAP:

Yeah, that's the point. Pairing is not big at all. And if they write the pairing, then they will make one of them- They will write him very effeminate. And he's not, he's not at all, both are very manly men. And it's just very weird that so many people make one of them practically to a woman. It's incredibly bad and I cannot read these at all. And so I think mine was just different, in a way that in my story, they pretty much still behave like they usually would, kind of I guess? So I think that's a difference.

LENA:

That makes sense, yeah. Because I feel like when I was in fanfiction.net for the first few years, I only wrote in a fandom that has like- I don't know how many people it has, but it can't have any more than one hundred online around the world. It's just it's a dead fandom and it was already dead by the time I went into it. And it's even deader now, if that's even a word. So, yeah, I don't think I ever had any real issues with people in the website, but I've heard like some horror stories from there.

DJAP:

Yeah.

LENA:

Well, going back to voice acting and podfic and everything.

DJAP:

Yes, sorry.

LENA:

Don’t worry. This happens. So have you ever done any voice acting or acting at all, aside from podfic before?

DJAP:

Not at all, and I never would have thought I'd enjoy it at all. I was the person who stayed as far away from theater as possible. I enjoy writing and reading, but I'm not a big fan of acting in any way. So I was surprised that I actually enjoy it so much.

LENA:

Do you think it's because of voice acting is something you can do, like at your house or like in the comfort of your room or your bathroom or your closet or wherever people record. But like you're alone, you don't have to be immediately judged for it, whereas with theater, because, like, that's been that way for me personally.

DJAP:

Yes, I think so, and I think that is a big part of it, at least it was a big part of it. I think I have changed in the time- in the last year, I'd say, especially recording in so many- with so many other people. So I think I would actually enjoy it by now, but I'm pretty much an introvert, so it wasn't the thing I would want to do in the past.

LENA:

Right. For me, I think it's more that even though I'm recording with other people, I can edit my recording before I show it to others. So in a sense, it's less, um, I don't know- less immediate. Like, I'm not producing something that is going to be judged without any editing, without any like me being able to say, like, OK, this is what I'm comfortable showing. So I guess that was it for me.

DJAP:

Yes, absolutely, I agree 100% on that. It gives you more control.

LENA:

Yeah, exactly. And so you have recorded with like other people, you have done other multivoices other than Crown of Thorns, so I assume you have been mingling with the podfic community. How have you found it?

DJAP:

Actually, all of this happened pretty much since the beginning of this year. In the past, I did not do very much with other people in fandoms, in any fandoms. But at the beginning of this year, I watched Good Omens and started to get back into recording more podfics again because I was just- I fell in love with the show. I just had to. And it started from there. And I pretty much found Crown of Thorns then. And a few weeks after that, maybe a month or two, I found Voiceteam and that was the start for me- to collaborate with other people. I’ve enjoyed it so far. People are very helpful. People are usually very nice here and in a positive way, not in the negative nice way.

LENA:

Right.

DJAP:

There is- I haven't seen too many fights or anything yet, but that might just be a Good Omens thing because that's where I mostly spent my time. It might be different in other communities and I only- I only did a bit in other fandoms like tiny gaming fandoms like Mass Effect or Dragon Age. So most of my experience with podfic community is with Good Omens, and that's just a very good community.

LENA:

I agree. I don't know, I mean, obviously, I can't speak for the entire community, but from what I know, it's just the podfic community has been pretty small until very recently. So they were very tight knit. I don't know how it's doing lately, but I think that was mostly it. They were like a small community of people and they sort of had their own way to do things. So I think they just sort of agreed on how they did certain stuff. So going back to Crown of Thorns itself, had you read the Crown of Thorns fic before finding about the podrama?

DJAP:

No, and I still haven't. I read only the parts that I had to read to do a proper job recording the voices I did, but I do listen to the podrama as soon as the chapters are out usually and I like discovering the story like that. I like people telling me a story.

LENA:

Right. So how did you find out about the podrama?

DJAP:

It was such a funny coincidence now that I've heard so many of the other interviews. Back in March, I came back from traveling and I was grounded by my work. They didn't allow me to come back. That was before lockdown, actually, but they told me, oh, no, you travelled. You have to stay at home for these two weeks. Then the real lockdown came and I had suddenly a lot more time. I wasn't commuting every day, then we got short work. So I had a lot of time to spend on fan things because we weren't allowed to leave the house at some point. So I listened to a lot of podfics from Literarion and from CompassRose and Podfixx. And I don't know, a lot of people that ended up in this project, too. And at some point, Lit recorded something with, **ohepsilon**. And I just commented on that, that I really, really liked the story and if any of them were about to collaborate again, I would like that. I would like to participate somehow because at that point, Good Omens already had so many cool- There's so much epistolary stuff out there that's read by different voices that's just awesome. Yeah, and to me, it's just funny that I picked that one podfic to comment on that was Literarion’s. And yeah, so she told me to check out Crown of Thorns and here I am.

LENA:

And so because you joined a little later, did you audition or what was the process for audition I guess?

DJAP:

I actually auditioned for Newt because there was, at the time I joined, there was a second one who was also interested. And so to make it fair, they told me to audition for Newt just as I usually would have needed to do at the beginning, so I did that, but I think in the end, the second person never auditioned. So I ended up with Newt. Which I think is pretty cool.

LENA:

So you auditioned specifically for him, you wanted to be Newton from the beginning?

DJAP:

I was so late that he was the only one open at that point of the bigger names, so to say. I think Newt was initially given to somebody else, but that person couldn't do it and had to leave the project. I don't actually know why, but at that point, it was the only bigger role still open.

LENA:

Right.

DJAP:

So I did that.

LENA:

And what is it like being Newt?

DJAP:

I found myself picking Newt in other multivoice projects as well, just because I feel like Newt is my thing. I want to record Newt in all the places.

LENA:

Could you describe him from your perspective?

DJAP:

In my head, there are two different Newts, actually, it's the Newt from the show, which I relate to most, a bit nerdy, a bit self-conscious, trying to do the right thing, but not really knowing how to go for it, but giving it the best shot and Newt in Crown of Thorns. To me, the best thing about him is that he's this place of being just cool and relaxed with a house full of strong women that- who know their mind and.

LENA:

Right.

DJAP:

It takes a special character to do that, and be cool with that and I like both versions of him, but it's these two different Newts in my head.

LENA:

Fair enough., fair enough. So what do you like the most and the least about being a voice actor?

DJAP:

As for being a voice actor, I actually just like it. There is nothing I don't like about it. I just enjoy being able to put all my emotions into it and give it my best shot. Playing around with range if possible. I did two other smaller roles, and it was just fun to play around a bit and try to make my voice as different as possible. But I guess not really something I dislike about that.

LENA:

All right, let's move on a little more into other things to do for the project, so let's talk about editing. When did you decide to join as an editor?

DJAP:

I wanted to do that even before I knew that I would be able to be Newt. I just wanted to be a part of this project. I thought it sounded really awesome. And I just wanted to spend time with other people and work on something big like this. And I actually really enjoy editing. It's fun for me. So editing was the best thing I could decide to do. So I pretty much wanted to do that right away. I read all the- I think Podfixx did the instructions for editing, if I remember correctly. So I read that and I thought, oh, OK, I've never tech-ed before. I've never worked on a multivoice project that way. But it was very well explained. And I thought, yeah, I can do that. I can follow these lines. I know I will get help if I have questions and, yeah, I just like it, so.

LENA:

Yeah, I'm glad you're enjoying that then, and so how are you finding that process? The guidelines. I know you've been organizing other multivoice projects, so have you taken inspiration from that or have you found that there's anything missing in the process that we have?

DJAP:

No, I actually organized most of my multivoice projects that I organized like they are organized in Crown of Thorns, if possible. I've done it in other ways, too, but it is very structured. It is very easy to follow. Also for the voice actors. So. There's not much to add, saying all they really did a very good job preparing the instructions.

LENA:

Yeah, yeah, I feel that way, too. So about being an editor. What is what you like the most and what you like the least?

DJAP:

What I like the most about being an editor is seeing it come together. It's like you have all these little pieces and you can play around to make them sound as good as you can make it. I really like listening a second time and hearing now, oh, that's not what it is, especially the multivoice pieces. That's just it's incredible to know so many people sitting all over the world recorded something and you brought it together. And you have this one thing that this group of people did. And what I actually dislike about editing multivoice chapters is sometimes because it's such a huge project over such a long time, I mean, it's over the span of a year, I have to wait because people don't meet the deadlines, sometimes it's a normal thing that happens. We have a lot of people working on this project. And if you did something in March and the next thing you have to do in August, it's normal, but you might forget it despite reminders, especially if you're not on Discord or something. So to me, that's sometimes a bit trying because I'm a very organized person, so if I know I have to edit this chapter and I know this is the deadline for the recordings and I cannot start that exact time because that's when I have planned to work on it, then that's sometimes a bit stressful for me. Just the organizing behind it can be stressful. Most of the time it's perfectly fine and everybody is in time and it's just what it is. It just happens with such a huge project, but it's just it happens to be something that I do not deal very well with. Which is my fault, not anybody else's fault.

LENA:

I guess it's a part of character, it depends on the person. And I think it also hinges on the kind of chapters you pick because I think you have picked a lot of chapters that have a ton of voice actors, right?

DJAP:

Yes, just by accident. I didn't actually do that on purpose. I did it for the very first I picked, because I wanted to learn it. And the best way to do it is you have to do- if you jump right in and do it in a very big piece. But I didn't actually pick them on purpose. It just happened.

LENA:

Yeah, because I remember when I started picking my chapters to edit, because I'm not like the hugest fan of editing, but I did want to contribute, I tried to pick those that I knew I wouldn't get frustrated with, and I tried to pick them with as little voice actors as possible, not so much length, but the amount of voice actors that I would need to, like, have an in mind. But then you came along and you are like, now I'm just going to do this one with like 12 voice actors. And I was like, damn, OK, all right. So, yeah, I was very impressed, needless to say.

DJAP:

It's just me liking editing.

LENA:

Yeah, no, I can tell. Again, though, if you don't mind me asking, what is- why do you like multivoices so much? Because I think at least in the last few, I would say weeks and months, I've seen a lot more invested in multivoices than single voice podfic.

DJAP:

Um, I just like being a part of the community, it's something that I never did before, like I said earlier, and I like the contact. I like working with other people and working together with other people all over the world to make something cool and nice that people will enjoy. I just- I like listening to them too. It's just fun, I don't know.

LENA:

I'm just curious because I know, like, there's always- there are always people for everything, right? Like there are some people who love multivoices, people who don't love multivoices, people who listen to podfic, people who don't, people who like creating it but don't like listening, and vice versa. So I'm just curious.

DJAP:

Yeah. I wish I had a better answer, but I think that is the most truthful about it. I just like interaction. I like creating something with other people. And the thing why I organized so many is simply because not enough people were organizing them and thinking of asking me to work with them because I wasn't very known at the beginning, people wouldn't even have me on their radar to ask. So at some point I realized, OK, if I want to be in more of these multivoice projects, I will have to organize them. And I just liked it, yeah.

LENA:

Fair enough. Yeah, because I know at least the ones that I've participated with you, you're the one editing. So yeah, you really like editing, but that's put me off of organizing multivoices because I don't particularly like editing. So I have considered organizing them. But then I would have to find someone to edit because I don't want to like carry all the editing with me, like I would love to record something, but editing for, like, a ton of people and myself and I- yeah, it's been. It's been holding back because of that, I've also been really busy these past few months, but just in general, the editing is what always puts me off of recording certain stuff like I go, oh, this is too long and I'm going to spend like five hours just editing.

DJAP:

Don't do that, I love your pods! Come on.

LENA:

Well, thank you. I haven’t thought- This always happens to me. I have a ton of podfic recorded and I just put off editing it. And then, like, if you listen to something I've put out, it might have been recorded like three months ago. And it's been there just collecting, I don't know, electronical dust or whatever it collects. So, yeah. Well, let's move on to yet another thing that you do for the project, so you're one of our beta listeners. How come you became a beta listener?

DJAP:

I don't actually know exactly how that was decided. I just saw that poor Grin was automatically put down for every single chapter for a while, and I thought the poor thing needed a break now and then.And I just offered, because I joined so late. And Newt is not a very big role, even if he's a known role, he doesn't have that many lines, and also a lot of the chapters for editing were already picked up. So I would have taken more, but I wanted to give other people also chances. So I picked only a few. That left me a lot of time and I wanted to have more. And I just saw, oh, maybe Grin could need some help. I think Grin asked at some point that she couldn't work on something and would need somebody to jump in and I just jumped on that and then- I basically take over for her whenever she wants a break.

LENA:

Yeah, and are you enjoying that?

DJAP:

Yes, actually, it's at the beginning, it was very hard to listen to something and not being able to edit it right away, because as a beta listener, you just listen and you have to write down what you found and it's not in your- You're not the one correcting it or deciding whether it actually needs to be corrected or not. So I found that hard at the beginning, but now it's OK. I just write the stuff down and give it to Rhi and that's it. Yeah, but I do like it.

LENA:

Have you ever worked with a beta reader for your fanfic?

DJAP:

Oh, I did, especially when I wrote in English, I just didn't want to post my stuff without a native speaker looking at it. And that was also one of the reasons why I stopped, because I've been in so many fandoms and it's so hard to find a good beta reader in a fandom if you keep switching all the time. A lot of people are not suited to be beta readers, like they will either not tell you about the mistakes you made or they will completely demolish your story, and you just want to go in a corner and cry. Like it's very hard to find somebody who will give you the amount of critique you can handle to make it a better story. So, yeah, I've worked with a lot of them. Yes.

LENA:

And do you find the process of working with a beta reader similar or maybe completely different from working with a beta listener?

DJAP:

I think it's pretty different. A beta listener will just make sure that everything that is supposed to be there is there, and that everything that will distract from the plot- I think Podfixx explains that very, very good in the interview, that the sound can distract you so much when it's off in a recording like so a beta listener is only making sure that things are there or not there that are supposed to be there or not to be there, but a good beta reader will have to be more creative. They will have to give you choices. If it's a good beta reader, in my opinion, they will tell you logical issues in the text. It’s not just like you can have a very good grammar program to fix any grammar issues, but a good beta reader will do the plot. They will look at the plot and tell you where the plot is wrong. And you can't really do that as a beta listener. You just have the text and you have to do what's there.

LENA:

Right, it's more technical as a beta listener. Though I don't know, I mean, having worked with beta readers myself, I guess it depends on what you want from your beta reader. Like sometimes you don't want them to necessarily look at the plot. You just want someone to catch typos. And other times it's the other way around. Like, you don't really care about the typos because you want to fix the story first and then you will care about the typos later on. So I guess it's a process of talking it through with your beta reader. But yeah, like you said, there are a lot of people who don't really understand what it means or how to do it. So, yeah.

DJAP:

Yeah, it's hard to find the correct beta reader for you. Somebody who would not work for me at all, might be perfect for the next person.

LENA:

Yeah exactly.

DJAP:

You have to be a good team together.

LENA:

Yeah, exactly. For example, I worked once with a person whose parents were English teachers. And so this person was very strict about grammar and punctuation and everything. And while I wanted that and we had a good relationship and it never went like- I never felt like she was insulting me or anything of the sort, she was very curt. She was very strict about her words. So it didn't exactly work because it was kind of awkward talking it through. And on the other end of the spectrum, one of my friends betas for me a lot of the time, and she doesn't write at all. She's not a writer. So I can't ask her to pick up on nuances of writing that I would ask a writer to pick on. Like I would not ask her to pick on my grammar. I would not ask her to to be like, oh, well, this paragraph isn't flowing exactly right. So instead, I ask her to be like, is this in character or do you think the story is like too fast or too slow? So it's like it not only what you want from the person. I think it also depends on what they are able to do for you.

DJAP:

Yes, definitely.

LENA:

It's kind of it's kind of tricky.

DJAP:

Yeah, and if they are too strict with you, it can be- for me, it can be really devastating. I remember a person correcting, beta reading a Buffy the Vampire Slayer story for me, and in the end, when I got the thing back, it was more red than black.

LENA:

Yikes.

DJAP:

And they had two scenes that they completely demolished, and I just wondered, they had offered me, to beta read for me and now I know why.

LENA:

Right.

DJAP:

It was simply not the story that they wanted to hear. But that's not what you want as a beta reader.

LENA:

Yeah. No, that's. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, when I mean that this person was really strict, it was just like precise grammar. Like this sentence structure is very clunky or like this is not proper punctuation in English or things like that. But she was very, very dry about it. So again, I never had a bad relationship with this person or anything at all, we still talk every now and then. But yeah, I didn't necessarily want to continue with them as my beta because it just wasn't what I needed from them at the time. But yeah, I agree, I've never had, like, a really destructive beta, but I've heard the stories, so. Yeah. Let's move on to the final few questions that I have for you, because I think we can pretty much wrap up here, I think I’ve asked you about pretty much everything you do, which is extensive. So let's talk about Newt briefly. What is one thing about Newt that you identify with?

DJAP:

Pretty much what I mentioned earlier, the nerdiness, being self-conscious, trying to do the right thing. I still like that he's so calm around all of these extremely- like, Anathema. To handle Anathema is a thing.

LENA:

He handles Anathema, he deserves a prize.

DJAP:

Yeah, and he survived. It's such a thing. Yes. I mean, Sofia is pretty cool and she is relaxed, but the twins are also a handful.

LENA:

They are something else. He's just there chugging along in the middle of it, just like this is my family now.

DJAP:

Yeah, he's just relaxed. It's just oh, it's a way I can deal with this. I will make the best out of it, you know.

LENA:

Yeah, no, he’s really cool. So is there a different character, perhaps, that you identify more or differently with, canon or original?

DJAP:

The first that comes to mind is Wensley, but Wensley is pretty much Newt as a child, so I think I'm fine with Newt.

LENA:

Newt it is then.

DJAP:

Yes.

LENA:

So finally, what is something you've learned during this project?

DJAP:

I've learned a lot about organizing, so I didn't only read the instructions for editing, I also read instructions for head editor and others- like there's a lot of material project that could be read and it's about organizing stuff, so I found it really helpful and I didn't strictly learn that, but I'm just happy about all the people I met. So it was a very good decision to join the project just for all the people I met.

LENA:

Fair enough. All right, awesome. Well, thank you very much for talking with us Djap. Tell us, where can people find the online?

DJAP:

You find me best on ao3, it's Djapchan. And if you want to see my older stuff, you can find it on fanfiction.net, it’s is just Djap, to find my stuff there, and I've pretty much deleted everything else that I posted over the years, I dabble a bit as a letsplayer and I used to draw, but most of that stuff I have removed. So that's pretty much the two places to be.

LENA:

Well, thank you very much.

DJAP:

Thank you for having me.

LENA:

So this was all we had for today. Next time we'll be talking to AJ, the author of The Crown of Thorns fanfic, more in-depth about the creation of the story. So keep your ears ready for that.

OUTRO MUSIC


	16. Earth's Birthday Interview with AJ (irisbleufic)

**Earth's Birthday Interview with AJ (irisbleufic)**

Hello everyone!

Today we’re celebrating a special occasion to our fandom! The Earth has completed yet another orbit around the Sun, and it is once more October 21st.  
It may or may not be 9 am in your timezone right now, but today, the team of CoT says Happy Birthday to our planet, by recording a fresh interview with the creator of the CoT world!  
We wanted to know how it had all started for our beloved characters in the CoT universe, and so we had a nice chat with irisbleufic, the writer behind this story!

Love,  
The CoT Pod'rama Team

Listen - [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/5MkcySVk1QV8N0stNjLnJV?si=I9v4OEi6T5-w4ePTmPu8oA) / [Anchor](https://anchor.fm/crown-of-thorns-podrama/episodes/Earths-Birthday-Interview-with-AJ-irisbleufic-elc8ol)  
Listen and Download - [Archive.org](https://archive.org/details/interview-with-aj-irisbleufic-bonus)

**Where to Find AJ (irisbleufic)  
**[AO3](https://archiveofourown.org/users/irisbleufic/works) / [Twitter](https://twitter.com/ajodasso) / [Tumblr](https://irisbleufic.tumblr.com/) / [Amazon](https://www.amazon.com/A.J.-Odasso/e/B0041ZXDN6%3Fref=dbs_a_mng_rwt_scns_share)

**Earth's Birthday Interview with AJ (irisbleufic) Team**  
Hosted By - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Composer - [ Nuitarie](https://soundcloud.com/nuitarie) Chapter Artist - [CompassRose](https://outlikethat.tumblr.com/)  
Interview Editor - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Head Editor - [UnholyCrowley](https://archiveofourown.org/users/UnholyCrowley) Transcripts By - [AJfanfic](https://archiveofourown.org/users/ajfanfic)

Length - 1:16:00 minutes

Question Time Stamps

00:00:09 Introduction  
00:00:46 What was the first spark for the fanfic?  
00:06:11 When did you start to plan it more in-depth?  
00:12:39 Are you a plotter or a pantser?  
00:14:59 How did you come up with your original characters (OCs)?  
00:20:01 Do you remember at what point of the storyline it was when it started to take off?  
00:21:22 What was the reception at the time? Did it help boost you as a fandom creator?  
00:26:47 Had you already started to plot more in-depth, or was that caused by the success of CoT?  
00:27:46 Do you remember when you first introduced Uriel and why?  
00:33:04 What about smaller OCs?  
00:38:29 Question from tired_but_still_kicking (IG) - Who was your favourite character to write in CoT?  
00:40:34 Do you edit more the dialogue of OCs or canon characters?  
00:41:37 Do you edit more the dialogue or the description?  
00:42:32 Do you edit things you've already posted?  
00:44:03 Where do you draw inspiration from for the descriptions of OCs and places?  
00:51:33 How do you decide what's in character for an OC as opposed to a canon character?  
00:55:34 Have you ever felt that a character grows so much while you write them that when you go back to their first appearance, they are not quite the same?  
00:59:45 Have your OCs ever tried to become the centre of the CoT universe, take up too much screen?  
01:06:49 Do you have a favourite dinosaur?  
01:07:59 Do you remember what time of day was it that CoT was born?  
01:09:56 If you had to think of a scientific theory that you think God would find really funny, what would it be?  
01:12:10 What is something that began for you when you began to write this story?  
01:14:08 Where can people find you online?

Transcript

INTRO MUSIC

LENA:

Hello, everyone, and welcome to Q&A. My name is Lena, and today I have for you an interview with AJ, the writer behind Crown of Thorns. Last time we talked to you AJ, you told us a bit about you and how you got to write for Good Omens and how you became part of the fandom, what led you to write Crown of Thorns, etc.. And today, to commemorate the creation of Earth, according to the Good Omens book, we wanted to have you back on to tell us a bit more about how it all started. So, hello, welcome to the interviews.

AJ:

Hi, thanks again. It’s always a pleasure.

LENA:

So to get started, my first question is, what was the first spark for the fanfic?

AJ:

The way that I put it last time probably was very rambling, so I'll try to keep it brief, more brief this time. I was at a couple of Q&As from Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett. They were held a week apart in the autumn of 2005. Terry’s signing was first, Neil’s was second. There were a few of us, the live journal community called Lower Tadfield, who managed to get tickets because both of these events and we planned to go together to both of them. And there were people in the community who had become fascinated with a blog post from Neil earlier in 2005 in which he mentioned he went out to eat with Terry and that they were talking about what they thought Crowley and Aziraphale were doing like right that moment, like then in real time. And Neil kind of made a glancing reference to Terry saying something about, oh, on the South Downs, really. And so we had this one little odd fragment of information that they had decided on in their conversation, but we knew nothing else than that. And so the people who knew that- about two or three of us, it was actually a group of three of us. Three of us went to one side and four of us went to another. The second one, they said, look, during the Q&A, maybe you can poke them about this. And so I said, I will do my best to get noticed during both Q&As and I will answer each- I will, sorry, I will ask each author the same question. So I asked Terry the question. I did get called on. I asked Terry the question, he gave the super rambling answer just generally about him and Neil in the process of writing Good Omens but he didn't actually answer the question, which was what did you decide Crowley and Aziraphale are doing on the South Downs. I mean, he ended up talking even a bit about the sequel that never happened. So then a week later, we went to Neil's events and it was held in a space about I mean, there's a very big difference between a small room at a college library and a huge church, which is where Neil’s event took place. And I was thinking there's probably no way that I'm going to make it under the wire, but I think I was maybe the second to last question that they took. And so I asked it to Neil. He started by giving a long, rambling answer, very similar to Terry's, about the collaboration. And then he kind of paused and he said, no, what we decided was what Crowley and Aziraphale are doing in the South Downs is sharing a cottage. And the reaction was pretty audible. So that pretty much told us exactly how many people were there, that they considered themselves part of the fandom or it meant- means so much to a lot of people. And obviously we've gone on to have corroboration of that years later, which is wonderful. But I moved to the UK about two or three weeks after those events to start a graduate program and I landed there on October 1st and I felt very alone and a bit afraid and anxious, but I had received, you know, a prompt from a friend asking me, and I don't know if I included this piece of information the last time, I had received the prompt from a friend asking me if you were to write something, it was the last time you could ever write about them. What would it look like? What would what would you want to be the very last glimpse you ever had? So I was thinking very much about the signing and the information and how people were still just over the moon on Lower Tadfield on LiveJournal. So I wrote “A Better Place”, which became the first chapter of CoT, which I think it's ironic that something I wrote just meant to be this little snapshot of “If I could only have one last glimpse at them,” I would want to know if that's where they were and that they were happy. But the way things work for me is that I can never- something that I think is small and going to stay self-contained very rarely does. So the next installment ended up being a story that I wrote for, in fact the second part of it, there was a gap of of several years and the second part of it was a story I wrote for Good Omens Exchange, where it was really the first time somebody asked for a story set on the South Downs with more than that little one that I had written. And so I was like, OK, I can do more with that. I can- I'm not going to treat it like a little what if goodbye or like a little test situation. And that's- It's a complicated answer every time, I guess. But several several things came into the making of it.

LENA:

Right. And so when did you start to plan it more in depth, because the story has several arcs, but it also has a bigger arc of this is sort of a beginning and then here where we leave them with the idea that it continues, but the story finishes. So when did you start planning that arc more in-depth?

AJ:

So once I had “A Better Place” and “The Walls, the Wainscot, and the Mouse” I started, I think. There were a couple of smaller ficlets that I had written maybe a couple of years before I actually wrote “The Walls, the Wainscot, and the Mouse”. I think one was “High the Water, High the Walls” that I realized felt very much like they were in the same universe. So I pulled those in. I decided that I was going to start having some installments be little flashbacks, because I am very a very big one for parallelism, parallel structure and narrative. I like using flashbacks. One of my other really well known, I guess you could say, pieces in fandom of the Pacific Rim Anthology uses a storytelling device very much like this, where I'm constantly interspersing flashbacks to the past with what's going on in the present and all of those flashbacks, I started to pick them pretty carefully, realizing that I needed them to be relevant to the present timeline events.

LENA:

Right.

AJ:

And so at least after “The Walls, the Wainscot, and the Mouse”, I had this awareness that I was going to have to start planning more carefully. In fact, even using those flashbacks and shorter ficlets as interludes, if I wanted it to seem not not so aimless, because it really was kind of accidental the way that it started to become a series. And I would say the big- so I kind of drifted along like that for a couple of years. Like I'm thinking that a couple of smaller ficlets were written about 2007, 2008. “The Walls, the Wainscot, and the Mouse”, I think, was 2010, and then I plotted those sort of ficlets into place, a couple of them retroactively between well, not between the first two stories, but in there and 2012, the summer, for some, well, there are a lot of reasons actually that summer, but I got some of the first ideas that would become the really big middle stretch stories where the long term plot really begins to kick in. So we're talking- rying to remember what the the really the first one was when I realized, you know, “What to do When the Clock Just Stopped,” I thought this is starting to feel like there's got to be more than just the kind of lighthearted or not- structured, but not so formally or not with such great consequence. But it was when I started focusing more on Adam and Sophia and Mandy, actually that trio of characters. And of course, Pippa was kind of always there because she holds it all together for me, is Pippa's presence her, just her sort of- because she's the first original character that I created for that universe. And she was the first one to come in and really make sure that Crowley and Aziraphale were starting to have a life outside their own cottage walls. But Adam and Sophia, being one of Anathema’s daughters, an original character I created, and Mandy, a local who works in a cafe that becomes sort of Crowley and Aziraphale’s regular server there, these three young people became the main drivers of the longer term plot and the longer arc and the longer stories. And of course, then I started to bring in other players from the book Hastur and Ligur, Shadwell and Tracy, a pair of my original characters that I had actually built for a completely different universe in like, it had to have been late 2004, early 2005, my take on two of the archangels, Raphael and Uriel, that I decided they'd actually operate very well in the context of this. So 2012 is when it- a lot of things collided both externally for me in real life and within the bounds of the narrative. And it just took off from there. I was plot- I was plotting very carefully from there on out until I realized I had a kind of crossroads with the ending. I actually originally there was a different, slightly different way that I thought it was going to end. But as things go that take many years to write, I was reacting not just to internal narrative decisions, but also my external circumstances and things I was learning from, that I was going through. And I am glad- I'm glad that I did I worked on the ending for a long time and thought about it for a long time before actually deciding that I was going to do it, because there was one point where I maybe wanted this to be something I worked on for the rest of my life, if possible. It was kind of a neat idea to me to have something that would go on for years. But then the television to come in- television adaptation became an actual reality and my health started to decline. But at the time I didn't actually know why in the spring of 2019, I didn't really find out until the fall. Those two circumstances, the show adaptation and my health not being very good, I decided that it was important for me to bring it to a definitive end so that new people coming into the fandom would have something finished to read and also so that it could remain pretty separate from any influence that the show might have. So, no, that was not really- these answers are not really short at this time. I do apologize.

LENA:

It’s all right. It's all right. No problem. So what I'm hearing is that you plotted it extensively. So I guess that answers my next question a little. But in general, would you say that you are a plotter for most of your stories, or do you think you're more of a pantser?

AJ:

When I was a younger writer, I'm in my thirties now. When I first started playing with prose and that was a bit late for me in comparison to when I started playing with poetry and other very structured short forms where I started writing, but like let's call it from maybe my mid-teens into my early 20s with fiction. When I would try to write it, I would very much fly along. But when I started writing more seriously in fandom, I became a plotter. I trained myself how to be a plotter. And so at this point, I'm very heavily- I plan things. I plan things as extensively as possible. I allow room for error in my own outlines. Sometimes I'll recognize that something I set down when I get to the halfway point of writing doesn't necessarily work anymore. Like the ending- the final story of CoT, for instance, or even just within a story I try to outline extensively enough to give myself a full structure so I know where I'm going. But I'll leave it- I'll leave enough, just enough vagueness. That I can be adaptable and I've had recently, I feel like a lot of my more recent work in a couple of my more active fandoms, I think Gotham would be the best example I outline extensively and plan- I plan my writing more tightly than ever, actually. But there have been a few stories recently where I've just realized, you know, about half or three-quarters of the way through, it's like, oh, this element has to change or this has to happen somewhere else. Or I thought I could use this character's point of view for this particular scene that actually I can't for it to work, it has to be from the other person's perspective. Yeah, that's really all I can say about that.

LENA:

Right. And so you, well, you've told us just now how you started to flesh out more of the original characters like Mandy and Sophia, but how did you come up with them? Do they come up during planning or do you start writing a part of the story? You go, oh, this character would do really well. We need a server to always talk to Aziraphale and Crowley, and then she became Mandy.

AJ:

So. Mandy, first- Mandy and Pippa both first appeared in the second story of the series, “The Walls, the Wainscot, and the Mouse.” I knew at that point, I'll use these two original characters as my example because they're the earliest ones, I knew that I was going to need a couple of locals to help Crowley and Aziraphale be drawn out of their little world, which is the two of them that they spend most of their time in, let's face it. So I had them going to the cafe to waste time after looking at the cottage while they were waiting to see if their offer was going to be accepted. And of course, I wanted as much detail as I could have in that little setting. So I thought, OK, I'm going to find a young local to be serving them and who I hope maybe will become, if I do anything more with this, which at that point I was thinking, oh, gosh, this is going to go somewhere. So I thought she needs to have a name and a personality, even if I don't call her by name. In that story, I didn't know her name. And when I start thinking about and I need a character who is like this and to function like this. She actually was pretty easy to conceptualize, and then obviously I also needed another local who was more of a, you know, a middle aged, older figure who lived in the area quite a long time and wasn't going anywhere and would become one of those not the bad kind of busybody, but, yeah, kind of a busybody and Pippa in particular was based on one of my British friend's moms. Who I met a few times and who left such an impression on me personality-wise when I think about Pippa I see a lot of my friend’s mom in the her, so she was even easier. You know, her personality is about half what I remember from my interactions with my friend's mom and the other half, obviously, what she became when I built her as I wrote her and then with, know let's say a little later on, like “What to do When the Clock Just Stops” and when we first have Newt’s and Anathema’s daughter showing up. I don't know why I always thought of it as there being three of them and the younger ones being twins, but they- I’d had that idea in my head actually for a much longer time. I just had written stories about them having kids yet. So. The number of children was definitely very stick for me, and that they were all daughters was important to me. In fact, when I create original characters for them to be women and gender nonconforming, like in the case of Rafael, and even Uriel to an extent, even back then when I was not out of all of my closets, it was extremely important for me, for most of my OCs to be women and gender nonconforming. So that played into it definitely that so many of the original players in this series are, I suppose, break all kinds of gender and societal norms, just norms being broken is a big thing for me in my original characters and in representation. So I don't know, the names are easy for me, I feel like I don't struggle with naming characters I take into account to a degree locality, to a degree real people I know that have those names, to a degree other characters maybe that I've read in other works of fiction I admire, you know, that maybe every once in a while I’m able to take with me. So, I’m trying to think, if there's anything else I can say about character creation, but those rules kind of hold up for most of the universes and most of the fandoms I write in. I think about character functions first and then from there, the blanks fill in pretty easily awesome.

LENA:

So you told us just now that you started realizing around 2005, I think you said, that this was becoming like a really huge universe of its own, not just a couple of one-shots that you were stringing together. Do you remember at what point of the story was this at?

AJ:

Well, no. So 2005 was when the first story was written, 2007 and 2008 were a couple of shorter fictlets that I decided to pull into it. But when it really, really started to get that momentum was 2010 was “The Walls, the Wainscot, and the Mouse,” it's when the first big shot of momentum turned up and then-

LENA:

Sorry.

AJ:

No, it's fine. And then 2012 with some of those, I just think of them as the big stories that happen in the middle of the series is when those started to appear. Like everything from- everything where you have Adam and Sophia in play honestly, they were just the troublemakers for me with plot. Those were 2010 to 2012, the critical window for like really big momentum.

LENA:

Right. Yeah, sorry, missed the date. So what was the reception at the time? Did you already have many readers before CoT, or did it help you boost you as a fandom creator?

AJ:

When I first read the book in November 2004 and went poking on LiveJournal and found the Lower Tadfield community, Good Omen for the very young fandom. I think some of the earliest pieces of fic that had been written, and at that point, they were not very many. We're talking you could count on both hands. Had been written maybe 2003, I think was the earliest evidence that I could find, the 2003, 2004 the centralized online presence was all on that LiveJournal community called Lower Tadfield. And so late 2004, I kind of plopped in there trying to figure out what's going on, who's who, what stories like this, because I wanted to write so badly, just I was- there was going to be no way of getting away from that impulse. And so I started posting that- my very first story in the fandom, which is not part of CoT, it's the one called “The Last Temptation of Crowley” and the like, two follow-ups. So I think it's like a little trilogy, where it feels like a trilogy, where I think it has more chapters than that. That got a lot of attention from the first thing I started posting readers started following my work, and I'm very lucky. I think it's that it had been, maybe a bit quiet since those initial very few stories cropped up circa like a year or two before then. So it was easy at that point in time to follow all of the writers in the fandom because there was maybe a core handful of us that were writing, you know, again, this was like a point in time where you could count a lot of things on both hands or maybe a couple of sets of hands. So people were hungry for stories. I could tell it was like a right place at the right time kind of deal. And so I picked up a pretty decent following, even with my pre-CoT stories. And so when I wrote “A Better Place” that got a lot of attention, that particular story, I've been lucky with the attention I was getting, but “A Better Place” was a bump. And then people- I was pretty well established at that point, I would say that I was writing mostly shorter stories in the couple of years leading up to “The Walls, the Wainscot, and the Mouse.” If I was not well known before, “The Walls, the Wainscot, and the Mouse” just did it, like that was- that was like the no chance of being like a nonentity in the fandom at that point. And I think that was the way that I remember it. And so let's say that would make 2010 the point where I know that my work was well-liked and well-received and popular before that. But 2010 forward, I could not really look anywhere at rec lists without seeing my work on them. And that's a wonderful feeling, you know, just mentioned or messages or- I mean that my fandom life got really busy, like 2010 on. So, yeah, I mean, I was doing well, and then CoT did give me a jump and the people that- I have readers that followed it through to the end that are some of the very first people I met on LiveJournal when I first came into the fandom. In fact, it's a very significant number of people that stayed with me and followed it and all my thanks to them for not giving up hope. The times where the series had maybe a year gap between installment, because that did happen a couple of times, even like, you know, I had a couple of gaps of a year. I had some gaps of three, four, five, six months that I didn't lose the readership. And it was somewhere in there that I was posting everything on LiveJournal up to a certain point. But 2012 into 2013, I decided to move all of my work onto ao3, I was a bit- I transferred a bit late, I guess, to ao3, which did maybe hurt some of my- at least it hurt some of my ao3 stuff, in the beginning. People were definitely- like some of the newer people in the fandom who were reading only on ao3 maybe didn't know about all the fic existed on LJ, which was a lot of fic. But I think in the middle there, right when I was really, really ramping up into CoT in those like middle of the line stories with so many OCs in play is exactly when I moved everything on to ao3, so that undoubtedly helped as well, I think, because putting things on ao3 expose my work to an audience that it didn't have on live journal and it was a good audience on LiveJournal to begin with.

LENA:

Right. And do you think or well, I guess a better question is, had you already started to plot your stories more or what's the success of CoT what pushed you to start plotting it more for your audience?

AJ:

I generally by then started being more of a plotter because the- and the thing that you have like- that’s important to know during all this time, I was still writing in other fandoms too, besides Good Omens, you know, I was writing Hot Fuzz fic for a good lot of that time. I was writing, you know, Pacific Rim for a good long part of that time. I had to be a plotter. I mean, especially when I became a multi fandom writer and a very active multi fandom writer. I had no choice but to be a plotter or I would have been sunk.

LENA:

Right. So it was already a thing that you are doing.

AJ:

Yeah.

LENA:

So you told us last time that your favorite character was Uriel. Do you remember exactly when you first introduced her and why you decided to introduce her to CoT?

AJ:

She first shows up, and she may have been briefly, she and Raphael, may have been briefly mentioned before “The Beach Botanist’s Survival Guide”, but “The Beach Botanist’s Survival Guide” is when they first truly appear and you so rarely have Uriel on screen without Raphael on screen as well. Although if I think about the average across the entirety of the series, Uriel in the later stories is more likely to be on screen alone than Raphael. But like he's almost never far behind. Those two are just. I don't know if I could call them as bad as Rosencrantz and Guildenstern when it comes to having a, you know, an iconic duo that's just always together and causing trouble. But they are. She did really- just an on screen presence making a difference to the plot. Her first appearance in CoT is in “The Beach Botanist’s Survival Guide”. But then there's the clause where I had created her prior to that in about 2002, 2003, before I even ever read Good Omens. She showed up at the tail end of a long series I wrote in a different fandom called Book of Hours. I wrote it for a tiny, tiny fandom at the time, and it is still tiny. There's a film called Toy Soldiers. In which, like a very young Will Wheaton and a very young Sean Astin kind of got some of their film work start, and there was just a tiny group of us LiveJournal that really loved this film. And there's a situation at the end of the series, Book of Hours, that I wrote. It's kind of a ghost story, kind of metaphysical. There's a lot going on in it and it's longer than- I think it's longer than CoT in and of itself, like approaching four hundred thousand words, that series. I needed-I had character who's Catholic. And I very much needed a function from an archangel that was somewhere between, you know what- between death and passing to whatever's beyond that, you know, someone is stuck. And so this is where Uriel functions for me, really. I started researching different connotations for Uriel in both, you know, Jewish theology, Christian theology, Islamic theology. And what I saw and I can't even remember which tradition I saw this in and it was so long ago I did this reading, that Uriel has a function sometimes that's called dominion over the souls of men. And I thought, well, once those pass on that, they're kind of out of all dominion except G-d, or a higher power. So if an archangel has dominion over the souls of men, it must be the souls that are stuck, that are unresolved. So that was my personal interpretation of that dominion over the souls of men. And so Uriel, I kind of created her at the very end of the series where a character who is dead has to make a choice. And it's a really- it's an understated scene, but it's a very uncanny scene as well. She's not the reassuring presence that you would think she would need to be, because obviously then when I go on to use her in the Good Omens Universe, Azrael, Death, has dominion over the ones that are definitively going somewhere. And so when I brought her into my Good Omens universes, she was brought first into A Crown of Stars, which is a little AU that I wrote before Crown of Thorns. And actually the title of Crown of Stars had influence on people starting to call CoT, CoT. But I brought her and then Raphael by extension, into this other little, this other little AU. And it's a second- it's the only time I ever wrote a full scale second apocalypse like that. Heaven and hell try again. I decided that having two archangels operating on Earth like there were two in heaven made sense. There was a kind of balance to that. There's these rogue agents in Aziraphale and Crowley but I would think that heaven would want to still have somebody down here, maybe that's doing things that are a little more highly organized, except that's not really how things panned out for them with Raphael and Uriel, as we all know, not in either story, not in Crown of Stars and not in Crown of Thorns, certainly. That's how that happened.

LENA:

Right. And so what about more original characters with, like, really minor roles, do you remember creating them? I'm thinking, for example, of Anat or Rashid. Do you remember when you decided, yeah, I'm going to include this random person?

AJ:

Well, Anat appears in a flashback. Obviously, it's the Sodom and Gomorrah flashback. I created her on the spot for that. I knew there would be a human. But again, it was done to function as like, Crowley’s in- I was always fascinated with his fixation in the novel on that lemongrass drink that he remembered, you know, pre-fall of Sodom and Gomorrah in a tavern. And I was like, I'm going to put him in the tavern. I'm going to see what happened there. Oh, there's probably a bartender. All right. We're going to have a bartender and just kind of on the spot, that chain of association. But with Rashid, Rashid is the more interesting case study, I think. Writing- what is the title of that one? I am forgetting the title of the one where Rashid shows up for the first time, but it's that little string of outsider point of view.

LENA:

Yeah, there are like four.

AJ:

There are. So he's their, essentially, he's their regular server at the Ritz, I'm realizing that because we, because in canon so much of Crowley and Aziraphale, the time they spend together is when they're eating together somewhere, whether it's in the British Museum cafeteria, you know, they meet up there a lot, comparing notes on how their agents are doing with Warlock. They- we see them at the Ritz. We see them- just all these context of food and drink. So I think by nature, a lot of the OCs that are humans that interact with the end up being the people who are bringing them their food and drinks, so Rashid is their regular- I came up with Rashied as their regular server at the Ritz. I needed him to be somebody who- and again, I created him for the purpose of this little string of outsider points of view. But he- a lot more had to go into him than Anat because Anat’s appearance is very brief. But Rashid's first appearance is an entire scene in his perspective, thinking about these two very unusual gentlemen that have been coming for years and years and whose appearance, you know, they may dress differently from decade to decade, but in his long lifetime, they never really change and he knows them best by their orders and he's never really intervened heavily in their conversation. But he listens and he watches. And it was also important to me that he be an immigrant to Britain. I definitely wanted him to be coming from elsewhere. I wanted him to be a person of color. Those things were very clear, very clear to me, very insistent. And then eventually when Rani, the community theater director, came up, I thought about Rashid's cultural background and realized that they had both come from the same place, Pakistan. And I thought, oh, my goodness, what if, OK, do I have a chance here- if I make them related in some way, whether it's they’re cousins or by marriage? And I was very excited when I realized this. I was able to kind of reach back, examined Rashid again, realize that he and Rani were very close in age and had probably been in Britain for about the same amount of time, which is a long part of their life. And so then I figured out how I wanted them to be related, how I could sort of maybe start to drop just a couple of early hints that when Rani is talking about a particular relative, she's actually talking about Rashid. And now all I have to do is bide my time on when to reveal this, like, really in earnest reveal it. So Rashid was never meant as such, to be to- appear past the outsider points of view piece, but when Rani became a character, I remembered him. And I recognized a neat opportunity and it worked out, I think, from my perspective as the writer, it worked out and a lot of readers were very happy to see him again. And so I'm glad that I did it.

LENA:

Yeah. No, I relate because when I was thinking of this question, like, what kind of examples could I give you that really resonated with me and just make me go like, oh, this is really cool. Rashid was immediately one of the first, him and Anat really, because they are mentioned very little, but they exist in the characters memories somehow throughout the story. So it was very interesting to me how even being minor original characters they still have such a presence.

AJ:

People really people do really love Anat, and it makes me regret that I never did more with her, but c'est la vie.

LENA:

So on a related note to what you just told us about Uriel being one of your favorite characters, one of our listeners, tired_but_still_kicking, asked you on Instagram, who was your favorite character to write in Crown of Thorns?

AJ:

About favorite characters in the series, it's hard for me to single out one because I feel so much love for all of them that I would feel almost like I was engaging in some kind of unfair favoritism. But I will say, aside from Aziraphale and Crowley, who obviously long term are my favorites, otherwise I wouldn't have been writing about them for 15 years straight. The characters that I didn't get to see as much of relative to the rest, like Rani and Rashid, Madam Tracy, those three are probably the favorites that are not any of the most appearing main cast, I guess you could say, any time I needed to have them on screen, on page, they were just a joy to have there. They're- Those are particular characters that I never felt- There are some characters when I'm writing them they are a little stressful because, you know, for one reason or another, their dialogue is especially tricky, or they're prone to high drama. But Rani, Rashid, and Madame Tracy are just like, they're a delight. Any time I had a scene with them, I was just very happy to be writing it and it never felt like pulling teeth. And, you know, I guess it's that absence makes the heart grow fonder principle. So I think those, I think those three would definitely take that title.

LENA:

Fair enough, I guess. And I should ask, do you think that you edit more the dialogue for your original characters than you would edit the canon characters? Do those come easier to you or is it just equal for them?

AJ:

That's an excellent question. I tweak dialogue a lot at a baseline, and I don't think I do it more for the canon characters or the original characters. Honestly, it's very situational. I guess if I'm having what I would consider an off day where I feel like I can't hear them well, you know, I'm prone to a lot more fussing with the dialogue until it feels right. There are some of the canon characters that I'm aware come easier for me than others. And there are some of my original characters that I'm aware come easier for me than others. So it's a pretty even mix, I think.

LENA:

Right. Fair enough. And what you said, you edit more to the dialogue or the description because your writing is very descriptive at times.

AJ:

I think I edit dialogue more. Actually, I'm very particular about the way that character sounds, you know, to my inner ear. And then capturing that on the page, by extension, is very important. And this is another one of those questions that I can apply to my writing across the board. Really, I can be reading something years later, you know, from when I originally wrote it on ao3 and if I hit a line of dialogue where suddenly I realize, wait, this doesn't sound right, I'll go in and tweak one word here, there, you know, and I'm probably the only person who will ever notice that. But it makes a difference to me.

LENA:

Right. So you edit things you have already posted.

AJ:

Sometimes I do. Yeah, well, that and some actually- I'm sorry, my cat's making a lot of noise in the other room.

LENA:

No worries.

AJ:

I think sometimes when I tell people that it raises eyebrows and then they're like, oh, do you mean like there's something I have to go back and find? And then, like if you care about a single word, then maybe. But there have actually been- it's rarer when I go in- there have been a few times actually where there have been things that I wrote years ago that, you know, I'll be reading a scene and I'll think, you know what, this could use maybe another hundred words here or, you know, however many. And I'll do it. And it's very sneaky, a lot of the time. I just- I rarely will tell people I do this unless it's relevant. And then there are pieces like CoT where I feel like I haven't tweaked anything in a really long time. I finally will get to a point with the piece of work where I'll be rereading it and I'll think, yup, I can just kind of stand down and enjoy reading this rather than have the editor part of my brain turned on.

LENA:

Yeah, right. Right. Well, very sneaky. So easter egg for anyone who wants to go and reread.

AJ:

Yeah. I guess in a way it is.

LENA:

Awesome. So clearly, you’re very detailed about many things in your universe from physical descriptions of the original characters to the distribution of the cottage, we have actually in the spreadsheet you have given us in our artist's descriptions of how you thought things would be in the cottage. Where do you- what do you draw inspiration from to get all of this?

AJ:

Oh, my. I- when it comes to interior spaces. If they're public places like cafes, bars, museums, churches. Any kind of public structure, I'm usually thinking of a real one that I've been in, or it is in fact a real place like the British Museum or like this particular tiny medieval church that I've seen or something like that. But when it comes to houses and living spaces, and this is like a hard and fast rule, like across, I'm talking now about all of my fandom writing, in fact, all of my writing that I do, full stop. When it residential space, you know, whether it's apartments, flats, or houses, I try to think of places that I have seen, but I don't necessarily make it literally that place, I kind of play around with the architecture a little and maybe mix up to different features from two different places that I saw. My family moved a lot when I was growing up around, like I mean, I grew up in western Pennsylvania. And my family just moved constantly around this half of this one state, and it's a really big state. And that involved looking at a lot of properties, and I was old enough by the by the time my parents started moving us around a lot, where I was usually with them, or in fact, after a couple of years of this, actually actively liked being with my parents when they would look at our potential new places to live. And my parents are- you know, they’re are people who like to have all of their options. And so they would look at a lot a lot of places every time we would move. And for me, between about the age of, I think, you know, two or three years old, and until I left for college, we- I think I counted it. We lived in eight or nine different houses, maybe 10. And each time we were moving, we were looking. I saw the interiors of a lot of property, like a lot of properties, and of course, in adulthood, moving like off the college, living off campus quite a lot, then moving over to the UK for the first of my graduate degrees, I just- between the US and the UK, I feel like I've seen so many interior spaces of properties and gotten over this really good memory bank of places that I can draw on or work from and the cottage in particular, we're looping back again to my British friend’s Mum. Her family lives, like, not too far from Stratford-Upon-Avon. And it's very idyllic there, very picturesque, it's not coastal, but the feel of it was what mattered. They on their property had this little guest cottage that they rent out to people. And so the couple times that I stayed with her family, I was actually in the little cottage on their property. So I was thinking partly of that place. Partly of some exteriors that I had seen for actual Cornwall and South Downs cottages online on property listings. I just look up, like on Pinterest, random photos or like I actually have to get into the real estate listings and website because it will give me both pictures of exteriors and pictures of interiors and sometimes, if I'm lucky, floorplans. And so there was, there was that element that was like my friend's mom's place, little place that she owned, there was me looking at property listings for Cornwall and the South Downs. And then there was- still is actually, this tiny little hunting camp in western Pennsylvania where I grew up, that my dad's parents, actually my dad's father and some of his, you know, hunting and fishing buddies built it from the ground up. In fact, my grandparents house is like this as well. It was built by my grandfather. And I spent a lot of my childhood between this little tiny hunting camp in the middle of nowhere and my grandparents house, and so between all of these weird influences, that's how the cottage came to exist. There are elements of it that are actually, if I think about it, kind of like my grandparents house in interior layout, the basic idea, but the feel of decor and the exterior, I keep thinking a lot about my friend's parents’ little cottage. And then like as far as the gardening aspect, you know, looking at a lot of those property listings and seeing where people put their gardens in relation and then with the property listings, I was also looking extensively at what are possibilities for the ones that the back of a cottage or the back of the house kind of faces the ocean and if you like, walk a little distance, there you are. You're on a stretch of beach. That's a very complicated answer for such a tiny, simple, really self-contained place. But a lot went into it.

LENA:

Yeah, I know it sounds like it. Did you- I imagine you spent hours researching all of those because it just sounds like really exhaustive.

AJ:

Yes, I did spend a lot of time. But also once I got a feel for the space as a real place in my mind, you know, after a while I stopped looking at things. We're talking like the last maybe few details that I was even using any kind of reference for was like just in the early stretch of maybe the first 10 stories or so. But after that, the space I got so used to maneuvering myself in it mentally for a purpose- for the purposes of setting scenes and knowing who's sitting where and who's picking what up and like what you know, what extra chairs can be made to appear out of nowhere and they're hoping nobody's going to notice they created a few extra chairs or, you know, just things like that. So. Yeah, at a certain point it was so solid to me, I wish I could have that place. I wish I could build that place. It's extremely real to me.

LENA:

So they're getting a bit more into the original things that you have created for this universe. I was actually talking to Rhi, our editor and she was telling me about how a lot of fics currently in fandom evolve solely around the canon characters, but how with Crown of Thorns, there are so many original characters that it makes it feel less less Good Omens and more Crown of Thorns containing Good Omens characters, like it's like a sort of a spinoff. And so she told me to ask, how would you determine or how do you determine what is in character for each original character, as opposed to having a point of reference, such as with Crowley or Aziraphale, who already have the book to base your story upon.

AJ:

Right. That's an excellent question. And I would say that for the canon characters I'm working with, I am always doing my absolute best to make sure that they are acting and reacting in ways that I can extrapolate from their canon characterization and that I can. if they have to grow and change, which they do, I’m constantly cross referencing in my mind. Ok, what is my textual evidence that I can cite when Crowley says this or when Aziraphale makes this decision or Shadwell and Tracy do X, Y, Z or Newton and Anathema. But with my original characters and they're at this point there’s just a significant number of them, that's internal to me. Right. And my sense of the OC that I built and really just the atmosphere is what happens when I have these characters that I have a strong sense of who they are from the novel interact with these OCs, who I have a strong sense of who they are based on just the way I built them to function and behave. And you do get a lot of- at the intersection of those two things you really do get the atmosphere and the universe that is very particularly CoT because you are running constantly, these models of novel characters and the way that they're evolving and changing as I'm working with them in this context are interacting with characters that I build that start out one way, but that also grow and change. So that's probably not a clear answer. But it's a complicated- it's a complicated process for me. And it's a complicated- like I feel like every time I have an interaction in any fandom, any time I have an interaction between a canon character and one of my original characters it's like, let's see what happens. In the earlier stages of doing it, you really have to get a feel for how those personalities interact, what happens when they collide, and sometimes they get along very well and sometimes there are clashes and sometimes it takes a long time for them to settle into each other. But I think it's I think it's like that with, I don't know, any piece of creative work where you have fictional characters, whether they're the ones you pulled from canon or the ones you created yourself. You're always sort of asking yourself, let's see how this goes. You know, I hope it's going to work. And if it doesn't work, maybe that's going to become integral to the fabric of the plot, that these characters are perpetually at odds. The kind of not working that’s terrible is just when something falls flat, you try it out and either you are looking at the finished product or reader is looking at the finished product thinking that just doesn't engage me. That doesn't work the way I thought it was going to work. Maybe, maybe that- maybe I'm not interested. Maybe that original character has to be redesigned.

LENA:

And, while I don't know if you'll agree, but for me, when I'm writing characters in general, when I'm trying to get to know a new character, sometimes I will go back to read something I've written before. I knew this character as well as I do now, and I feel like maybe I should rewrite it because that's not no longer consistent with the way I now know my character to behave like. Do you feel that any of your original characters in Crown of Thorns has evolved to the point that when you first meet them, they are not quite there?

AJ:

Let me see if I understood the question, so original characters, the way they are by the end of the story, if I look back at their first appearance. Do I feel like they're not there in their first appearance or I feel like they're no longer there by the time I get to their last or their most recent?

LENA:

The beginning, sort of, if you get to know them so well that when you go back to read what you first wrote about them, you sort of feel like you didn't know them well enough to write them. I don't know if that happens to other people. I'm just asking because I know this happens to me.

AJ:

So with CoT, I never actually felt that. When I look back at the early appearances, I can say I felt like I knew that character well enough to write them in the first place. I have to feel at least comfortable enough like I have a sense of them, who they are at that moment in time as a person. But there have been- thinking about my stories in other fandoms. There's definitely a couple of times where I can see the early appearance of the character and recognize that I only knew half the truth about them, kind of, in a way. And for me, actually, when that happens, I don't consider it a bad thing. I consider it that, OK, if I started writing this character before I got to know them good enough or i.e. before I got to fleshing out everything about them that maybe I should have at the start, I just say, well, I'm usually fortunate enough that when I'm writing about OCs- Rashid, let's say Rashid is an exception to this rule where his first appearance I'm writing in his point of view, like out of the gate. That doesn't usually happen when I build OCs in my fanwork, I want to say 80 to 90 percent of the time when they first appear I'm writing in the point of view of one of the canon characters. And so for me, it's like the canon character doesn't know them well enough yet. So if I didn't know them well enough yet, that's OK, because I'm going to be getting to know them usually through the lens of the canon character that's in the foreground. So I have a margin for error a lot of the time in, if you could call it that. But I've never actually had to. So an original character that I didn't outright scrap, which when that happens, they never see the light of day for people to see. But the characters that actually make it to being posted and showing up for the first time, I really don't- I've never had one that I've had to completely scrap or like retcon or make go away. I try to at least have some controls in place so that if something just doesn't work at all, that I can, you know, eradicate or plan, you know, just kind of rearrange whatever I plotted to not include an original character that I thought was going to be there.

LENA:

Right no, yeah, that makes a lot of sense if you're not writing from their point of view, it's probably easier. You have a lot more leeway to not fully give all their reasoning and stuff, so, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And so have your original characters ever tried to become the center of the Crown of Thorns universe at some point? Because I know they are very integral to the story. Have you ever felt that they were taking up too much screen?

AJ:

Oh, I never did. And now you have me thinking about- you're very patient with me for the fact that I'm talking about a lot of my general writing processes like not just in Good Omens fandom, but with CoT there are certainly stories that feature- where the plot points have a lot to do with OCs and what's happening in the lives of those OCs. But when I work with ensemble cast, which is a lot of the time, it's the persistent preference of mine, a persistent thing with me. I don't feel like they ever tried to hijack it. I always have been able to keep in mind that this started out being about Aziraphale and Crowley, and their world expanding as it would have to, you like settle down to live a life that's more human, even the one than the one you were living before. And you're- it's going to happen. You're going to- you're going to live. You're going to meet people and you're going to love some of them and hate some of them. And you're going to have to face what happens when one of them dies for the first time or grows seriously ill or- so with ensemble cast I will always have my canon characters. I do try my very best not to forget who the original focus was and to an extent really has to remain. But if anybody came close to in fact, no, I would argue she is on equal footing with Crowley and Aziraphale. Pippa is so important to the narrative because she's there with them at the start when they move to this place, in a way. And in fact, the original ending, I mean, I think I might have- I don't know if I talked about this the first time, my short term memory is not great these days. The way that I was thinking it might end was, and my reasoning for this, should be there from curtain up in “The Walls, the Wainscot, and the Mouse,” which that's the second story but it's the first long story. And she's there right at the start. I thought, logically speaking, this story ends when she does, when she's no longer in the world. And so I was thinking that, and you know, she is older, even at the start. I was thinking that this would have to be a kind of situation where the last story by default will have to be the story of Aziraphale and Crowley and the others having to deal with what happens when she dies. Now, things changed drastically when I realized it was more narratively expedient for a different character to die at some point in the narrative, and it was not one of those deaths that was done for shock value. It was established that this character was an older character as well and was not in the, necessarily, in the best of health and you didn't see a lot of this character. They were always just kind of a little bit out of your field of vision off to the side. And so I thought, OK, here's what happens when a death hits this little community. And it's not Pippa and I am not somebody who plays death cheaply in my work, in fact, I get very stern almost when I talk about this that I dislike deaths that are played just for the shock value. If I have a death happen in one of my stories, it's usually going to- it's going to have number one, very serious repercussions. And it's going to affect everybody who's in any way touched by that person. But in this specific instance, what having this death happen when it happens in the narrative means is that Pippa’s death was no longer going to be something that was going to have that kind of narrative impact because we already got to see it, we already got to see what happens when these characters have to deal with someone they know dying, not necessarily Pippa, but someone they know. So from there, I realized, well, I think this series with Pippa dying, I'm fond of her. Probably readers, many of them by the end, are going to be very fond of her. I realized it wouldn't be a good thing from that standpoint to think about this ending with her death, you know, just from natural and I'm talking about like, a natural death at the end of a life well lived. So I had to recalibrate. We see this little very close knit group of people, this little community, this little extended family, in a way, reacting to this death pretty early on, relatively, in the series, like maybe somewhere around the midpoint. There was still a long way to go.

LENA:

Yeah.

AJ:

So those two factors made me re-evaluate, and I'm really glad that I did, because it made for a stronger ending, you know, it made for a finish where everyone who is still standing, which is most of them, you know, like all but one, right. And even the one that's no longer standing again was always very much off screen or had like one line here, or they would be talked about by the other people. At the end, they're all standing. They had a near thing where they maybe could have lost somebody else. You know, it was like a precarious- I'm trying to talk about some of these things without spoiling a whole lot for people who are listening, who might want to read, but it made for a better ending and any time I can end something with all of my players or ninety nine percent of my players still standing that's good. In my view, that's a really good thing.

LENA:

And let's use the moment that we're talking about the ending of the story to ask you a final few questions that I have, which are hopefully a little more lighthearted than deciding whether or not to kill characters. These are just little funny questions that popped into my head as I thought of the theme for this interview, which is the intro of Good Omens about how the earth is so liberal. And so let's start with something really random. Do you have a favorite dinosaur?

AJ:

Plesiosaurs is a big one for the aquatic prehistoric critters. I'm thinking of a branch of the family is technically Nothosaurus **,** the sort of like the plesiosaurs and ichthyosaurs, sea monsters. I have an interest in sea monsters and so aquatic dinosaurs, although that class is not technically dinosaurs existing at the same time. I don't know. I'm not like- I took a couple, I took a couple of paleontology classes as an undergrad. That is how nerdy I was about dinosaurs as a kid, that it has bled into my adult life. But yes, I love- if I have to pick one prehistoric critter that I love so much it’s plesiosaurs, they’re great.

LENA:

Thank you. Of course, a practical joke that palaeontologists haven't gotten yet, but let's move on. So we know that Crown of Thorns is also a Libra. But do you remember what time of day was it that you sat down and decided that, yes, Crown of Thorns was going to be born?

AJ:

It was evening on October 1st, 2005.

LENA:

Evening.

AJ:

So, no, let me- I'm backtracking because I had just flown into Heathrow that morning, taking a long train ride up to York, gotten settled in, then passed for several hours, checked all of my online presences, which at that point in time meant mostly just email and LiveJournal, was reminded that the friend had given me that little fic prompt of like, what would this look like if it was the last time? And I thought, well, this is my first day living in Britain for the next however many years. It seems- it feels right to write something about them just as I’ve landed here, so I'm going to fill this fic and because of the way like, darkness in the autumn falls so much earlier in the UK than like for me, my perspective of where I was living before. So I think it must have been about seven to seven thirty PM window, just from what I remember, of like, how much the light had already faded and that it had struck me that back at home I would still have more daylight at that time of day. So let's call it seven p.m. on October 1st, 2005, which my astrology- I'm never good off the cuff that.

LENA:

I think that also falls in the Libra. Yes, and if you had to think of a scientific theory that you think G-d would find really funny, what would it be?

AJ:

I'm trying to think of my own conception of G-d or higher power from a Jewish standpoint. I feel like G-d finds almost everything funny. I mean, I- and maybe that's just myself talking to that, as a survival mechanism, I have tried very hard to find everything funny, especially like in the last I guess almost approaching 10 years now, but I figure just, yeah, all of existence. I mean, how could you not just- set up this little scenario and it evolves and kicks along in ways that you never expected. And a lot of what happens is heartbreaking and terrible, but direct intervention- One thing I will say is that I- when I conceive of a higher power, I don't always think of it as being a highly interventionist one, necessarily. So I don't know if you don't learn to look at everything that happens, then- maybe this is just me now bringing it down to the perspective of a human life. There's so much out of your control. And I think yes, even for a creator, there would be so much out of their control. I mean, that happens for us as creators, right? You let something loose in the world and good luck predicting what's going to happen to it.

LENA:

Right.

AJ:

So if I look at G-d, or at the higher power in the universe, as a storyteller, which I do almost first and foremost. You don't have control over what's going to happen to your creations and a lot of it's going to be really terrible. But you'll have to find a way of finding the humor in it, I would hope.

LENA:

Awesome, and so for a final question, we have talked during this interview about how- about the beginning of the universe, but also the beginning of Crown of Thorns as a universe. So what do you think the story and starting to write it sparked for you? What began in your life when you began the story?

AJ:

I had already been independent for about five years at that point because I was starting to write it right as I graduated from my undergraduate degree and was starting the first of my postgraduate ones and in a whole other country, no less. So, you know, the five years that I spent living independently, during college, I did five years of undergrad instead of four because I just changed my major and wanted to do so many different things. It felt more real as the start of my independent adult life going to the UK and doing this than it felt- during my undergrad years, so- you might say that this started on the first day of the rest of my adult independent, you know, existing just as myself and having to figure out who my family was going to be, the people that I was going to meet and add on and it really- actually, yeah, that's what it was.

LENA:

Awesome. Well, here's to the rest of that adult independent life.

AJ:

Thank you. Here's to yours, too. I hope it, you know, I hope you are having a good one and that you will continue to have a good one.

LENA:

Thank you and thank you so much for talking with us AJ. Tell, us where can people find you online?

AJ:

Thanks again, Lena. You're such a good interviewer. You can find me online on ao3, which is Archive of Our Own and on Tumblr, I am irisbleufic. That is irisbleufic. On Twitter, you can find me under my real name, which is @AJodasso, and most other places- I mean, I don't- I have Instagram, I’m @AJodasso on Instagram as well. I don't necessarily have a website, you know, aside from my Twitter and my Instagram and my ao3 and my Tumblr. So maybe I should change that. I probably should change that. I edit for some publications out there, and you're going to find my original writing everywhere, if you put my name into Google, just like wind it up and let it go, you're going to find a lot of stuff.

LENA:

All right, awesome, thank you so much.

AJ:

Thank you. Have a good one.

LENA:

So, this was all we had for today. Next time we'll be talking to KerrAvon, the voice of Pippa, so keep your ears ready for that.

OUTRO MUSIC


	17. Interview with KerrAvon

**Interview with KerrAvon**

We are halfway through the mammoth project that is Crown of Thorns Podrama, and we've got some extra content for you all!  
Along our way, we have managed to gather an amazing team of voice actors, editors, artists, musicians, and organizers.  
This is the start of a series of interviews with the team about their experience and involvement with the Crown of Thorns Podrama.  
We're continuing our interviews with Kerravon, who voices Pippa for the CoT project.  
She has been reading fanfiction since the mid 90's (Blake's 7), writing it since 2007 (SGA), and podficcing it since 2012 (Avengers).  
Having first read Good Omens in June, 2014, her first Good Omens podfic was recorded in July. She read Crown of Thorns and loved it, delighting every time there was a new chapter notification in her in-box.  
Previously she recorded two stand-alone chapters from CoT, the Cards Against Humanity chapters, and is looking forward to hearing those in multi-voice format!  
In real life she's a small-town general surgeon who doesn't have nearly enough time to do all the reading/writing/recording that she'd like, and therefore is looking forward to eventual retirement, just like Pippa has done!

Love,  
The CoT Pod'rama Team

Listen - [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/5PuL38sW2wl8kUInNnKy7D) / [Anchor](https://anchor.fm/crown-of-thorns-podrama/episodes/Interview-with-KerrAvon-elsadg)  
Listen and Download - [Archive.org](https://archive.org/details/interview-with-kerr-avon)

**Where to Find KerrAvon**   
[AO3](https://archiveofourown.org/users/kerravon)

**Interview with KerrAvon Team**  
Hosted By - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Composer - [ Nuitarie](https://soundcloud.com/nuitarie) Chapter Artist - [CompassRose](https://outlikethat.tumblr.com/)  
Interview Editor - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Head Editor - [UnholyCrowley](https://archiveofourown.org/users/UnholyCrowley) Transcripts By - [AJfanfic](https://archiveofourown.org/users/ajfanfic)

Length - 45:44 minutes

Question Time Stamps

00:10 Introduction. Tell us a bit about you, where are you from, what do you do aside from fandom?  
02:19 How did you land in fandom?  
08:37 How do you remember switching from paper zines to online?  
09:19 How was the fandom like when you first read the book?  
10:43 Younger writers in ff.net vs AO3  
15:20 How long have you been podficcing?  
16:59 Have you done any visual art or other creative endeavours?  
17:53 When did you find out podfic was a thing?  
18:53 Were you surprised that people were creating podfic?  
19:19 Have you interacted a lot with the podfic community?  
20:35 Tangent on the Covid19 situation in the US  
24:14 Question from tired_but_still_kicking (IG): What's your favourite part of making podfic and what are some of the challenges?  
25:43 How did you find CoT?  
26:40 How did you find out about the podrama?  
26:49 When you audition, did you already have a character in mind?  
27:50 What is it like, being Pippa?  
28:42 What is your favourite part of being a VA for the project?  
29:42 What's one thing about Pippa that you identify with?  
37:28 What's something you've learned during this project?  
42:54 Where can people find you online? Plus a show rec!

Transcript

INTRO MUSIC

LENA:

Hello, everyone, and welcome to our cast and crew Q&A. My name is Lena, and today I have for you an interview with KerrAvon. KerrAvon voices Pippa for the Crown of Thorns project and has been reading fanfiction since the mid-90s with like Blake Seven, writing it since 2007 with SGA and podficcing it since 2012 with Avengers. Having first read Good Omens in June 2014, her first Good Omens podfic was recorded in July. She read Crown of Thorns and loved it, delighting every time there was a new chapter notification in her inbox. Previously, she recorded two standalone chapters from Crown of Thorns, Cards Against Humanity, and is looking forward to hearing those in multivoice format. In real life. She is a small-town general surgeon who doesn't have nearly enough time to do all the reading, writing, and recording that she’d like and therefore is looking forward to eventual retirement like Pippa has done. KerrAvon, it's an honor to have you with us today. Tell us a bit about yourself before we start. Where are you from and what do you do aside from fandom?

KERRAVON:

Well, actually, you're the bio you just read covers it pretty well, I forgot I'd written that. I'm a surgeon, I am in a small town in- on the Pacific coast of California, and it's a critical access hospital which is 25 beds. There are two general surgeons in town, myself and one other. And we split call for the E.R. and the hospital and do surgery things.

LENA:

Save lives. No big deal.

KERRAVON:

Occasionally. It's more like we do a lot of hernias and colonoscopies and gallbladder surgery and colon cancers and breast cancers and things like that.

LENA:

Right. Well, that's still saving lives.

KERRAVON:

That is ultimately.

LENA:

Well, then hopefully, it’s some good time and then retirement.

KERRAVON:

Yeah. When I retire, I've got so much stuff I want to do.

LENA:

I can only imagine. So take us back. How did you land in fandom?

KERRAVON:

My first real fandom was Blake Seven back in the 90s. I graduated my residency in ‘92. So up until that point in time I was pretty much focused on just becoming a surgeon. And then I started being able to watch a little television from time to time. And my husband saw this show that he just knew I was going to love. And now and- I'm doing this, I'm doing dishes. Finally, I watched an episode and adored it. So he got me the entire videotape, VHS tape set of all four seasons of Blake Seven and lost me for about six months while I watched them over and over and over again. The yeah, the- And then I hadn't gotten enough. Yeah, I just- I- there were no- I wanted more stories. And so if you know anything about Blake Seven, it ends badly, but it's kind of very British. So and I could explain that but you'd have to call spoilers or something. But at any rate, I just adored it and- But there weren't any more stories, and I was at a Doctor Who convention and in the dealer's room found a fanzine, a paper fanzine, that was a crossover between Doctor Who and Blake Seven and- It had KerrAvon getting on the TARDIS, I think, and I'd never heard of fanfiction before, so I that was like- I bought that and then I started- it had a publisher's address in the back, contacted them, got everything that they had on Blake Seven. And after I'd finally bought everything this guy could sell me, he- his name was Hoop, Ed Hoop. He suggested that I go to a convention in Michigan called MediaWest because apparently, the Blake Seven fandom had sort of an unofficial pact that they would never put fiction online. It would be in zines only. So to get used zines, I had to go to MediaWest and after the first one, I went every year up until this one, for 22 years. I- no, no, only 18 years.

LENA:

When did you first go?

KERRAVON:

I first went probably about ‘95 and ‘96.

LENA:

It would be twenty-four years because that's how old I am.

KERRAVON:

Oh okay. Well yeah. MediaWest, because fandom has gone more and more and more online, MediaWest got smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller and the last few years has been pretty much just a conventional old friends kind of get together for Memorial Day weekend. And so not so much the, you know, maybe one or two zines a year would come out and they would always premier at MediaWest, it used to be this huge thing, all these zines and, you know, the premiering zines. And they had awards called Fan Q Awards. And-

LENA:

Wow.

KERRAVON:

It's just, you know, people who've only seen it online don't really have the experience of, you know, oh, my God, the new zines in the mail. And then you just have to devote hours to- I'll only read for an hour and then I have to put it down sort of thing.

LENA:

Right. And did they ever move online at all?

KERRAVON:

Yeah. There's some Blake Seven on ao3 right now, because zines aren't really a thing but I probably own. I'm certain I don't own, I'm certain I don't own all of them. But I'll bet I own 90 percent of Blake Seven print zines that are out there.

LENA:

Wow. Well, that's- all right. You're very focused then on Blake Seven.

KERRAVON:

Yeah, I get focused easily. It's- I got fanatical about it. I really, really loved it. I went to several conventions that had Blake Seven actors. Occasionally there’d be a Blake Seven convention, but in general it would be Blake Seven plus other things because it's a fairly cult fandom. There was- there were a small group of people that were in it.

LENA:

All right. So but eventually you started getting into other fandoms, right?

KERRAVON:

Oh yeah. Because yeah, after a while- actually what happened was I was- I ran out of actual Blake Seven zines to buy, so I started buying multimedia zines that have stories from lots of different fandoms and so I'd start reading other stories, particularly if they were by authors that I really, really loved reading. One in particular was Sheila Paulson, and I loved her Blake Seven stuff. And she- mostly at the time was writing stories, and she's got hundreds of stories in the Real Ghostbuster fandom. Is that- the Real Ghostbusters was a cartoon series based on the original Ghostbusters movie, and J. Michael Straczynski did several of the- several of the episodes. So they were very, very good. And he's the guy who did Babylon Five and- So I started reading Real Ghostbusters, didn't write in it or get into it like I had Blake Seven, but that got me into other fandoms, so.

LENA:

Hmm. And how do you- because I imagine you remember the switch from, you know, zines and all of that, paper zines, into posting mostly everything online, whereas I barely remember that at all.

kERRAVON:

I'm sure.

LENA:

I grew up with everything online. So how was that for you?

KERRAVON:

More convenient, but I do kind of miss the excitement of getting a new zine in the mail that that was like getting a Christmas present or something.

LENA:

I sure can’t imagine. I’m here, like, oh, I got an e-mail, I'll read that later.

KERRAVON:

Exactly.

LENA:

Yeah. No, I can't imagine, it's interesting for sure. So you joined the Crown of Thorns, not the Crown of Thorns, sorry, the Good Omens fandom around 2014, right?

KERRAVON:

Right.

LENA:

You read the book. How was the fandom like at the time?

KERRAVON:

Full of wonderful people, wonderful writers. I've noticed that the fan fiction has changed quite a bit now that you've got real faces to put with the, you know, with the characters, and the older stories have a lot more plot in general. You know, obviously there are exceptions to that, but they tend to be longer and more plotty and less sort of pwps. So, yeah, not that there's anything wrong with pwps, I just like having an actual story to read. And that's the nice thing about ao3 is the fact that things tend to be- you've got better writing, you don't have people who don't know grammar.

LENA:

Oh, right.

KERRAVON:

Like you do over on fanfiction.net. You know, the 12-year-olds who get offended if you try to correct their spelling or their grammar, which you just don't do.

LENA:

Are there, on ao3, as many younger people, do you think?

KERRAVON:

Well, probably. But they can write. They, you know, and you don't see I mean- there's really, really horrible spelling and grammar errors, you know, like obviously those would be the stories you don't read, but I don't- I just don't see that often on ao3. I don't know if it's just because of the search engines and I just happened to search out the better ones. But I can't remember the last time I ran into something on ao3 that was very, very, very badly written from a construction point of view. You know, the yeah- the homophones is what's driving me crazy, right now.

LENA:

Oh yeah, the definitelys and defiantlys.

KERRAVON:

Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. He peeked in the window, P-E-A-K. He passed me in the hall, P-A-S-T. And my most recent favorite he clamored to his feet, C-L-A-M-O-R-E-D. So got to his feet very noisily I suppose.

LENA:

I've never seen that one.

KERRAVON:

I've seen it twice, actually I saw it twice in the same week. So that was kind of weird.

LENA:

Yeah, those I mean I guess those will exist forever.

KERRAVON:

Oh I’m sure.

LENA:

I do remember seeing a lot more grammar and like, obviously, this is not your first language stories in fanfiction.net, but I do think that's mostly because I have, lately at least, been in fandoms where the fandom is more adult. So there are a lot less kids, but I think that's my particular fandom niche. Not because there are less kids. Then again, I don't know.

KERRAVON:

That that could be it, because the- I like kids cartoons frequently and I like reading stories based around them. So you- I will get a lot more children. I've actually found that people who, you know, their first language is not English and they're writing in English. And that's the nice thing about ao3, you can write in another language. I don't know if you can do that on ff.net or not, but you can write in a language and just post it in your other language, which is great.

LENA:

Yeah no, totally. I started writing on fanfiction.net and when I first started writing in English, like I would go there and be like, hey, this is not my first language, just so you guys know, like if there is wrong grammar, it's because I'm Spanish. So, yeah, I don't know. It was something you could do back then too.

KERRAVON:

You could write in Spanish?

LENA:

Yeah, for sure. I started writing in Spanish.

KERRAVON:

Oh OK. Well, I didn't know if that was- if ff.net took other languages or not because I moved over to ao3 almost as soon as it opened up.

LENA:

It took me awhile, I didn't even know it was a thing until way, way later on.

KERRAVON:

I may be misremembering, but I was- I was thinking that when ao3 first opened up, you either had to be invited by an author who was already on the site or you had to submit three samples of your writing because they were really trying to screen out people who were, you know, misspelling things and couldn't put a sentence together to save their souls, you know, that sort of thing.

LENA:

Oh, that sounds strange, considering the archive right now is all about inclusivity and everything

KERRAVON:

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Maybe they had a smaller server then or something.

LENA:

Maybe. Yeah. So when I joined, I know that you had to either have an invitation from someone or wait until the archive gave you an invitation because it's a beta right now, a beta website. But they never ask for proof that you could write. But I remember hearing that this was because they were avoiding bots creating like spam accounts. I think it's not so much like people who couldn’t write, but like bots, actual bots trying to become a spam.

KERRAVON:

That makes a lot more sense.

LENA:

I think that was it. Yeah, because a bot wouldn't be able to submit anything.

KERRAVON:

Yeah, exactly, sure.

LENA:

So I guess this answers my next question. But you have written fic before, right?

KERRAVON:

Oh, absolutely. I'm better at writing than I am at podficcing.

LENA:

Right, because you have been doing it for longer or because you enjoy it more?

KERRAVON:

Oh, I've been writing since I was a little girl. If I had any way of making a living at it, I'd probably- I probably wouldn't give up surgery. That's a long, hard slog. I probably- as much as I say I'm going to retire, eh. When the pandemic first hit the United States, the American College of Surgeons basically said, shut it down, shut it all down as far as elective surgeries went, because we were going to save all the PPE for anybody dealing with covid patients. You know, and there was a- there still is a very limited supply and- but not so limited we can't go back to doing, you know, elective surgery. And, you know, the definition of elective was pretty interesting. But therefore, about six months, we were doing essentially either emergency life saving surgeries or cancer surgeries, only pretty much exclusively. And I missed it. So I'm not sure about the retiring thing.

LENA:

Well, it's something you get used to, I guess, working a job.

KERRAVON:

Well, I got a good another 10 years before I even have to think about it. So.

LENA:

For sure. I think what I was going to ask is whether you've done any visual art or any other kind of creative endeavors in fandom before.

KERRAVON:

I can draw a gallbladder, sort of- in a sort of a sketch so that I can show how the gallbladder attaches to the duodenum and the liver and where the pancreas is in relationship to that. And that's about it for my drawing ability. My sister got all the drawing ability in my family. She is brilliant. She's very good at painting and drawing and if it's a visual art, she can do it.

LENA:

Oh G-d, that’s a mood. I can’t- Actually, I can copy a drawing from someone else. I cannot draw, like, for myself to save a life, probably.

KERRAVON:

Yeah, me neither.

LENA:

So when, you told us it was around 2012, I believe that you started recording podfic. Yeah, with Avengers. Do you remember when you found out it was that thing people were doing, recording podfic?

KERRAVON:

I- it was about the same time, it was probably a little bit earlier in the year, I started listening to some Avenger's podfic and just found it brilliant. And I'm like, oh, I wonder if I could do that. And so there's- there was forums and there was- there's even podfic- at least the time, I assume they're still out there, that tells you how to do podfic. So all about Audacity and you know- then a lot of it, now I go to YouTube when I have a question about my Audacity and just watch them. They'll show you which buttons to move and make the effect you want.

LENA:

Which is very useful, very useful indeed. And do you remember what you were, like, thinking- that it was weird or that it- did it surprise you that people had started to do that?

KERRAVON:

Not really. If the, you know, if the programming is out there that you can, you know, to let you do it and it's free and it's decent, everybody is going to do that sort of thing. You know, or at least give it a try.

LENA:

And have you, since you started making any podfic, have you interacted a lot with the podfic community or have you mostly kept to yourself?

KERRAVON:

Well, mostly end up keeping to myself simply because I don't have time. I keep missing that. I keep wanting to come to the voicechats for Crown of Thorns, for example, and I keep missing them because I find out about them after the fact.

LENA:

That happens. Yeah.

KERRAVON:

Yeah. I check my email about once a week, so. I was checking it more often when I was trying to get in, you know, get in contact with you and volunteer and- for the interview because I wanted to do this. I've been listening to these interviews and they're brilliant because I get to learn about the other people that- a lot of times I've listened to other podfics by these people. And it's just it's so neat to know more about them and where they're at. You know, that kind of thing.

LENA:

We have a lot of different people.

KERRAVON:

Yeah, and from all over the world, you know, Australia, you said you were from Spain.

LENA:

Yeah. Lots of people from France, a lot of people from the States… Yeah.

KERRAVON:

Yeah. Right now the US has...

LENA:

Hello, editing Lena here. Small technical difficulty here, but KerrAvon was talking here about how a lot of people have freetime now in the US, so you can put in context the rest of the conversation. Back to the interview.

KERRAVON:

Not so much me, right now, but yeah, no, one thing I do in my office is cut off a little skin lesions that might or might not be skin cancers and send them to the pathologist, that kind of thing. And people are sitting at home staring at their new little freckle that they never noticed before and gradually convincing themselves that it's malignant melanoma. And next thing you know, they're in my office getting their freckle off and I can't convince them it's just freckles. So I have to take it off and send it to the pathologist.

LENA:

Yeah, well, that happens. You have a lot of time. You start noticing new things and new things.

KERRAVON:

I need to socially distance from my refrigerator.

LENA:

Yeah, but no, I mean, your job is like really important right now, in general, every single person just still working in medicine is a godsend. I know, Podfixx, our narrator is working in pharmacy, I believe that’s right.

KERRAVON:

Yeah, she’s a pharmacist.

LENA:

So, yeah, kudos to all of you. Really.

KERRAVON:

Well, as a surgeon, I don't do a whole lot with the COVID patients, and honestly, there's not a whole lot in our town right now. We did have an outbreak in the nursing home. I'm not really sure why nursing homes keep getting hit. It's kind of weird, but we did have an outbreak in the nursing home and then it was over. And other than tourists coming to town and bringing in the occasional little, you know, isolated island of cases, we pretty much don't have much.

LENA:

Well, that's a relief, then.

KERRAVON:

Yeah, I'm sure it'll hit, but it- as soon as somebody comes in with- and it's always a tourist who's refusing to wear a mask because somehow wearing a mask is political, I'm not sure how that works because it seems to me it's more science, but at any rate, they'll come into town, they'll refused wear their masks, they’ll be a carrier or something and the local community’s really, really good at the contact tracing. They just shut everything, you know, like if this person stays at a hotel, the hotel owner will shut down the hotel, get every- you know, everybody gets screened who's been staying at the hotel. They sanitize everything before they reopen. They're just- you know, people are absolutely rabid about making sure our little community stays safe. And I think that's one of the nice things about a small town, is it tends to you know, everybody pitches in and does what needs to be done to keep us safe.

LENA:

Fair enough, that's one of the benefits for sure. To steer us back into the interview, because I think we've strayed a little bit from podfic.

KERRAVON:

Oh, yes, I'm sorry.

LENA:

No, I mean, this happens a lot. And like we were saying, we have a lot of different people and everyone has different things in their minds and in their circumstances and it's fine to talk about this kind of thing, I think.

KERRAVON:

But podfic.

LENA:

Yeah, podfic is also kind of important here. We yeah, related to the question that we were talking about podfic and how long you've been doing this, we had a question on Instagram from tired_but_still_kicking, who asked you, what is your favorite part about doing podfics and what are some of the challenges of doing so?

KERRAVON:

Favorite part of doing podfics is the first read, you know, the first read aloud that I do. The unpleasant part is the subsequent editing because I get more and more obsessive about something to the point where sometimes I will edit out my breathing in between. I will find when I take a deep breath and I will make it go away and by- by taking a little piece of blank, you know, not- you don't silence it. You take a little piece of blank air from somewhere else and stick it in over the breath and in exactly the same amount of space. And then I will edit it and and edit it, then I will listen to it on, you know, a walk when I try to get out and exercise. And then I will write little notes to myself, OK, you need to fix this, this, this and this. And now that I have a good place to record, I will rerecord lines and stick them in if I don't like the way it sounded the first time. And that just takes forever.

LENA:

Right. Yeah. Very extensive editing then.

KERRAVON:

Yes.

LENA:

And more specifically to Crown of Thorns do you remember how you found it?

KERRAVON:

Probably- I tend to rank things by kudos in the, you know, when I'm doing my searches through ao3 and probably that way. It was probably a fic with 16 zillion kudos. And so I started reading it and I think it was only maybe 25 or 30 chapters in when I first started reading it, I'm not sure. I know they hadn't gotten to the Cards Against Humanity sections because those- as soon as I read those is like, oh, I. Well, they came out several months apart, but the first one that came out with Cards Against Humanity, it's like, oh, I have got to record that. And it was lots of fun to record.

LENA:

And then how did you find out about the podrama?

KERRAVON:

I probably saw a notice somewhere, I actually don't remember.

LENA:

When do you- when you auditioned, did you have a character in mind that you wanted to play?

KERRAVON:

Pippa. Absolutely Pippa. Yes.

LENA:

From the beginning.

KERRAVON:

From the beginning. And it was the only other- the only character I thought I could potentially do would be her grandson, Rob. But Pippa had about the right number of lines for me and I certainly did not want to be narrator, Crowley or Aziraphale. Kudos to those guys because, oh my heavens, that's just a huge time commitment. And I would- I would have failed everybody if I tried to do any of those. But Pippa feels like me, you know, she's a retiree. She's kind of the nosy next door neighbor. She knows everything about everybody in town, she's everybody's friend. I mean, I love her, she's just- she's a wonderful character.

LENA:

What is it like being her when you're recording her lines and being Pippa?

KERRAVON:

I try to actually tone down my voice a little bit and try to sound a little bit older. And a little bit more nosy. People- people tend to volunteer a lot more information than I want to know, you know, so I'm less nosy than Pippa, but- but, yeah, I just think friendly, curious neighbor who's in her, you know, 70s and that's Pippa.

LENA:

Yeah, I mean, you describe it perfectly, because I was going to ask you to describe her, but yeah, that's pretty much her. So what is your favorite part of being a voice actress for the project?

KERRAVON:

Getting to hear the brilliant way all of it gets put together, that's just- that's still floors me, whoever's doing- the people doing the editing. Oh, my heavens, I wouldn't have volunteered for that either. It's brilliant. They do such a great job and it's so much fun to hear my voice in with everybody else's, as if I'm having a conversation.

LENA:

Right. Yeah, I agree that's one of the best parts of a multivoices in general, I can't really imagine. I know I've contributed a small role, but it's still so shocking sometimes to hear it and be like that sounds good. It sounds really good.

KERRAVON:

Right.

LENA:

The editing team is doing a great job. And then, of course, there's Rhi, as head editor.

KERRAVON:

Yes.

LENA:

Yes. So tell us, what is one thing about Pippa that you identify with?

KERRAVON:

I don't know. Being old. I feel old sometimes, I think we all do. Beyond that, I'm not really sure, I'm not retired yet. Maybe she's more what I'm aspiring to be rather than what I am. She's what I want to be 10 years from now. I want to be, you know, retired, and checking in on my neighbors, and baking. I like baking. Can't cook for anything, but I can bake. And, you know, maybe being in the local drama club or here they're called the footlighters little-the little towns everywhere have these little drama clubs and in our town, it's what they’re called, the footlighters. Doing things that I've been putting off all these years.

LENA:

Right.

KERRAVON:

So, yeah, that's what I think, that's what I think I, you know, I want to be Pippa. I don't really associate with her now, but she's what I aspire to.

LENA:

Right. And is there any other character, canon or original character, that you feel like you identify more with right now?

KERRAVON:

Well, there was a doctor when Pippa's husband died, but I don't know. Of the canon characters I like Aziraphale simply, I mean, if you were to, you know, look at where I'm recording right now, I'm recording in my library, which. Yeah. Aziraphale would like this place. I love books. I keep books forever. I read them and read them and read them and read them and, so in that way, I like, you know, I like Aziraphale. I don't really connect with Crowley at all. Not a big fan of driving fast. They- do you watch movies at all?

LENA:

Oh, no, I'm not a big fan of movies, more of a series person.

KERRAVON:

Oh, there's a movie out there, one of those multiple car race movies that Americans love so much, illegal car race movies like Smoking the Bandit sort of thing called Need for Speed. And it's some sort of, I think, cross-country race. But the last scene where they're racing to the Lighthouse and you can go to YouTube and Google Need for Speed lighthouse leg or final leg or something like that, was filmed where I live. The curves are like 20 mile an hour curves and people take them at 45 to 50. And I am not a fan. I have technology, medicine before I- we call it going over the hill because there's a series of mountains between us and like, society, the nearest the nearest shopping mall’s two and a half hours away, the nearest airport’s four and a half hours away. And so it's- we're in the middle of nowhere. It's called the Lost Coast. And, yeah, those roads just. No, I'm not going to- I'm not going to connect with Crowley on the driving. Absolutely not.

LENA:

That's a cool name, though. The Lost Coast, like a book name or or a place where you would expect to have a treasure map.

KERRAVON:

It feels like that sort of place. I had no idea that places like this existed in California or in Northern California. And just about an hour north of here on some even twistier roads is Humboldt State Park, which is where they filmed the Ewok planet, you know, on the third Star Wars movie with all those giant trees. Did you see any of the Star Wars movies?

LENA:

I saw the Star Wars movies when I was a kid, I barely remember it, but I'm very sure that a lot of our listeners will know that scene.

KERRAVON:

Well, yeah, that's just north of here. We've- I've got giant redwoods in my backyard, literally. It's just astounding. I love- I had no idea this place- a place like this existed in California. When I think of California, I think of LA, you know, just wall to wall people and cars and, you know, smog and noise. And nah, this is beautiful. Trees and deer, there's deer that wander across the hospital parking lot at night. Raccoons, raccoons come and steal our cat's food at night. We have to bring our cats in from the yard at night so they don't get eaten by the mountain lions. I am actually not joking. We'll find a deer carcass on the property every once in a while because the mountain lions come through and kill the baby deer. And yeah, we're out in the woods.

LENA:

Mountain lion.

KERRAVON:

Yeah, they come through in the spring and in the fall, and they will eat your little dog or little cat for lunch. Actually, it's more of a snack, so, yeah, you bring them in at night. Dusk and dawn are the worst, so you make sure they're in.

LENA:

But is that a bit like a lynx or like a fox or?

KERRAVON:

No, it's a mountain lion.

LENA:

Oh. Just, OK.

KERRAVON:

Well, we do have some- we have some bobcats, there's a family bobcats that live full time about three blocks from here, there's a little ravine that goes into something called McKerracher State Park. And the- there's family bobcats that live right on the edge of that ravine on a farm that's just a few blocks away. And- but no, the mountain lions, they’re lone animals, they don't travel in groups. They travel by themselves. They have a big area that they travel over. And they seem to come through in the spring, the fall. So yeah, and they eat things like cats. So they get to come in and then the raccoons come and eat their food.

LENA:

So well, the circle of life.

KERRAVON:

Yes.

LENA:

That's interesting. I don't think I've heard of mountain lions or maybe I'm not thinking.

KERRAVON:

Mountain lion, a puma, they're- they look sort of like a female African lion, but smaller than that, like a panther, but tan like a female mountain- or like a female lion.

LENA:

Interesting.

KERRAVON:

You have to look it up they’re-

LENA:

I will, I will.

KERRAVON:

They’re called mountain lions. They're bigger than bobcats or lynx.

LENA:

Very well. If I remember, I'll try to put a picture on the transcript for this interview. If someone is just as uneducated as me in Californian wild life.

Image of Mountain Lion / Cougar / Puma / Panther / Catamount (all the same animal)

KERRAVON:

There you go.

LENA:

Because I've never heard of them. Interesting.

KERRAVON:

Yeah, I know they have different names. I think puma is one name for them.

LENA:

I've heard of pumas. Yes. Yeah. Might be the same thing.

KERRAVON:

I think it's the same thing. I'm not- I'm not 100 percent sure but I think it's the same thing.

LENA:

Fair enough, fair enough. All right, so let's pull back to the interview. We have one more question for you. OK, what is something that you've learned during this project?

KERRAVON:

To check my email every once in a while and check the CoT, you know, schedule every once in a while, because I’ll think in my head, oh, I have- because I'll record, when I have a few hours, I'll record several chapters at once and submit them and then think, oh, I'm good to mid-August and maybe I'm actually not. So I have to check it frequently because I was late once and I was just like, no, I can't be late, oh. So yeah, learning to recheck myself when I think I don't have a deadline due to make sure that I don't have a deadline due. Because people are depending on you, they yeah, you've got to try to get things in on time.

LENA:

Yeah, yeah. That's. yeah, that's something I hear a lot through the interviews as people just constantly realizing how important the organization we've got going on is.

KERRAVON:

And it is astounding. I will show people at work the spreadsheet, you know, and how the links are arranged. And I don't even- I can't even. That's just amazing. I don't know how anybody can do that. And it stayed on track all this time. You know, the chapters come out just like clockwork. They're perfect. They're- Yeah. It's just such a huge coordination effort. It's just amazing to me, I can't even- I wouldn't- I would not have believed this sort of thing was even possible.

LENA:

True. I don't know if any other like, podfics of this length and caliber have been done, like in terms of multivoices, especially because if you're doing this as a single person, it will take you forever.But you're not waiting on other people and making sure that everyone is doing everything on time like this is a project I don't know if it's happening in another fandoms. I would be interested to know actually if it's happening somewhere else.

KERRAVON:

I would bet money the answer is no. I would go to Vegas with an N95 mask and put a thousand dollars down and on no. I think this is probably the first this sort of thing has ever been done. And it really looks like it's going to finish, which is even more astounding to me because seventy five chapters, really. Holy Toledo. So, yeah.

LENA:

Seventy five plus epilogue. Yeah.

KERRAVON:

I mean, this is. This is. Kudos to, you know, the voice acting is easy compared to the organizing of this staff, except for Crowley, the narrator, and Aziraphale. I think they've probably got their work. Yeah, they're probably just as hard as the organization. But organizing it.

LENA:

Organization was- The worst part of organization was probably at the beginning, just sort of deciding how it was going to be done. After that being part, for example, of the team that organizes all the posting on social media, after it was decided how it was going to happen, it's mostly just doing it.

KERRAVON:

Well, it's you know, I was so impressed with this whole you know, I'd never been on Discord before. And I was just so impressed with how all this was coming together that when they were- when my hospital was looking for ways of doing virtual meetings and committee meetings and that sort of thing, I suggested Discord because it's like, I'm already on Discord and it works. It works better than Zoom, it really does. Nobody wanted discord. I guess they didn't like the name.

LENA:

Fair enough. I suggested Discord to my dad who's a university teacher, and they didn't use it at first because they have- they use Teams I believe. But for one of his classes, they needed like a more informal sort of way to contact the students. And they have set up a Discord server, I believe.

KERRAVON:

Cool.

LENA:

Yeah. So that's that's one way of doing things. Discord for sure is helping a lot with fandom organization in general, not just not just podfic. I've also seen most fanfic events like Big Bangs or like fandom week events. They also have their own Discord for people to connect. It's really interesting.

KERRAVON:

I've got some YouTube channels that I actually like to, you know, watch videos or whatever, and they'll have a Discord channel I frequently found, and so I've subscribed to those.

LENA:

Yeah, yeah, that's true. YouTubers are making their own discords for their fans, that's true.

KERRAVON:

Exactly.

LENA:

Yeah, wonder where Discord is going to take us. But for now, this is all we had. So thank you very much for talking with us KerrAvon. Tell us, where can people find you online?

KERRAVON:

I'm under either KerrAvon, or B7_KerrAvon, or B7- B7 stands for Blake seven, B7-KerrAvon. I think the B7-KerrAvon is my fanfiction.net and on ao3 I think it’s just KerrAvon. But pretty much some sort of permutation of KerrAvon. And yeah- and there's because of the fandom, there used to be a lot more KerrAvons out there, you know, with various prefixes or suffixes and not so much anymore. People change to new names and that kind of thing. But, you know, what I wrote most in was Stargate Atlantis. And I'm very- I'm actually pretty proud of a lot of those stories, although the only story I've ever gotten written, you know, an award for writing was a Psych, the show- I don't know if you ever saw that show, but there's a show called Psych and I actually got it as something Pineapple Award for. Yeah, I'm sorry, Psych, if you ever get a chance to watch it, it's fun. It's a guy who was trained to be very observant, you know, like Sherlock Holmes, observant by his father from the time he was a little boy and his father was a bit of an a-hem. And he convinces the local police department he's psychic rather than very, very good at observing things. And they hire him as their psychic and he keeps solving their cases for them. So it's a fun show.

LENA:

We'll also have links to your social media on the transcript of this interview in case people listening want to check that out.

KERRAVON:

Ok.

LENA:

So, thank you very much.

KERRAVON:

You're welcome. See, I told you I could talk forever.

LENA:

It's all right.

KERRAVON:

Well, thank you very much. You have a great day.

LENA:

So this was all we had for today. Next time we'll be talking to Ecchima, one of our artists, so keep your ears ready for that

OUTRO MUSIC


	18. Interview with Ecchima

**Interview with Ecchima**

We are halfway through the mammoth project that is Crown of Thorns Podrama, and we've got some extra content for you all!  
Along our way, we have managed to gather an amazing team of voice actors, editors, artists, musicians, and organizers.  
This is the start of a series of interviews with the team about their experience and involvement with the Crown of Thorns Podrama.  
We're continuing our interviews with Ecchima, an artist who joined the fandom shortly after the show came out.  
They participated in the Good Omens Big Bang 2020 and listened to the radio show.  
They came up with book visuals and got recruited into the Crown of Thorn project by another member.

Love,  
The CoT Pod'rama Team

Listen - [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/5vbiE6DZoJnnsWs8xOoZuL?si=09DYxIXlRDGk7Zq35zUBbw) / [Anchor](https://anchor.fm/crown-of-thorns-podrama/episodes/Interview-with-Ecchima-em5abj)  
Listen and Download - [Archive.org](https://archive.org/details/interview-with-ecchima)

**Where to Find Ecchima**  
[ Tumblr ](https://ecchima.tumblr.com/) / [ Twitter ](https://twitter.com/Ecchimas_art) / [ Instagram ](https://www.instagram.com/ecchimas/)

**Interview with Ecchima Team**  
Hosted By - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Composer - [ Nuitarie](https://soundcloud.com/nuitarie) Chapter Artist - [CompassRose](https://outlikethat.tumblr.com/)  
Interview Editor - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Head Editor - [UnholyCrowley](https://archiveofourown.org/users/UnholyCrowley) Transcripts By - [Literarion](https://archiveofourown.org/users/literarion)

Length - 26:06 minutes

Question Time Stamps

00:10 Introduction. Tell us a bit about yourself, where are you from and what do you do aside from fandom?  
01:03 When did you join the project?  
01:35 How did you first land in fandom?  
02:08 When did you first find Good Omens?  
03:08 Do you do any other creative things aside from art?  
04:24 How do you find writing different/similar to visual arts?  
05:01 When did you find out podfic existed?  
05:51 Do you listen to a lot of podfics or do you prefer to read?  
06:18 Are the projects you're a VA for posted?  
07:23 Did you consider auditioning for any role in CoT?  
08:00 How did you come to be a VA pinch hitter?  
08:33 Do you remember what your roles were?  
09:33 How was the experience of participating as a VA?  
10:12 Do you do a lot of takes?  
10:28 Do you edit extensively?  
12:16 What's your favourite part of voice acting?  
13:28 When did you first start drawing?  
13:45 Did you start making fanart before joining fandom?  
14:11 What's your favourite pokemon?  
17:30 How do you pick the chapters you make cover art for?  
18:01 Did you pick far ahead?  
18:35 What is your process like for creating cover art?  
19:08 How long does it take you?  
19:35 Question from sharishaku (IG): Which characters (OC or canon) do you prefer to draw?  
21:03 What do you like the most and the least about your work as an artist?  
22:04 Do you have a favourite cover art (by you and other artists)?  
23:53 What's something you've learned during this project?

Transcript

INTRO MUSIC:

LENA:

Hello, everyone, and welcome to our cast and crew Q&A. My name is Lena, and today I have for you an interview with Ecchima. Ecchima is an artist, who joined the fandom shortly after the show came out, after participating in the Good Omens Big Bang 2020, and listening to the radio show, they came up with book visuals, and got recruited into the Crown of Thorns Project by another member. Ecchima, it's an honor to have you with us today. Tell us a bit about yourself before we start. Where are you from and what do you do aside from fandom?

Ecchima:

Thank you! I’m from France, and I’ve been drawing for Good Omens ever since the show came out, and then I read the book and I loved it, and people asked me “What do you think they look like?”, and so I drew the book boys.

LENA:

When was this?

Ecchima:

Oof! Book boys must have been early this year, so maybe January, something like that?

LENA:

Aha! And when did you join the project then?

Ecchima:

Oh, I don’t remember, I have a terrible memory! I remember that it was shortly after I drew my first book omens illustration, and it was kind of popular on Twitter, and a member reached out to me on Twitter, asking “Hey, do you want to join?”, and I went “You mean I can draw book boys and it’s going to be used, and people are going to see it? Yeah!”

LENA:

Awesome. But let’s start at the beginning. Take us back, how did you first land in fandom in general?

Ecchima:

In general, I was in art school, and I had no idea about fandom, because I was terrible at English, so I wasn’t much on the internet. And a friend of mine, who is very much on the internet and very good at English went “Hey, you should make a Tumblr!”, and explained to me what Tumblr is, and so I made a Tumblr, and I found my first fandom, which I believe was The Hobbit, at the time.

LENA:

And then Good Omens, you said you found it shortly after the show, so I imagine fall last year? Or maybe summer last year?

Ecchima:

Oh, summer last year, yeah. I was hanging on Twitter and I was starting to see fanart for the show Good Omens. And I was very intrigued because the two characters don’t look anything alike. Which at the time, I was in the Detroit Become Human fandom, where every character looks the same. Like, the hair just goes one way or another, or else the characters just look the same. So I was like, they look sweet, they look funny. And so I went on YouTube, and one of my recommended videos was something titled “Aziraphale and Crowley being married on Wii music for five minutes”. And so I watched it, and then I watched the show.

LENA:

I think we’ve all seen that video, it’s so good. And so, have you, sorry, did you do any other creative things, like writing fics, or recording pod, outside from art?

Ecchima:

Oh, yeah. I wrote a few fics. I don’t write much, because I tend to lose steam very, very quickly. So I have written maybe five fanfics or something like that. But I have also been asked by friends to start doing some voice recordings, some voice acting, for Prince of Omens, and some other projects that we are still working on, like Alexandria 48BC, at the moment.

LENA:

Wait, that comic, is that comic yours?

Ecchima:

Oh, no, the comics aren’t mine. It’s a friend who was in the Big Bang with me, the first Good Omens Big Bang. We were on the same server, and she came one day and asked, “Hey, would people be interested in being voice actors for a project of mine?” And me and a few people said yes, and so we sent some recordings so that she can hear our voices, and she gave us roles, and we started recording for fandubs.

LENA:

Ah, okay, gotcha. And how do you find the writing different, or maybe similar, to the grade of work you do for your art?

Ecchima:

It’s, for arts I am going to sit down and draw, and I am going to be done in maybe a week, if I have a lot of work aside from that. When I start writing, I am going to sit down and write, and I am going to be done in maybe a month or something, and I don’t have many friends to send WIPs to, so that we can all gush together.

LENA:

Right. What about podfic? When did you find out podfic existed?

Ecchima:

Must have been during when I joined the Big Bang, the Good Omens Big Bang. We were talking about fanfiction, and we started to go, maybe we should make a side server that would be a fanfiction book club. And so we made it, and now we have a fanfiction book club for Good Omens. And at some point in there, someone mentioned that they preferred podfics, because they can work at the same time that they listen. And I did not know, but with the name I guessed really fast that it was just, well, “just”, that it is an awesome recording of a fanfic read by someone, which is really, really cool.

LENA:

Do you listen to a lot of podfic, or do you prefer to read the words?

Ecchima:

Oh, I have consumed maybe one podfic, total? Yeah, I don’t listen to podfics because I tend to get distracted very easily, so it is easier for me to read, and I usually do it in the evening before bed, so that I can turn off my brain.

LENA:

Yeah, I do that too! And are those projects that you were just telling me, that you are going into voice acting, are any of those posted, or are they still in the works?

Ecchima:

Yeah, [Prince of Omens](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLf8krsVAJncCZcfIWm5SfPH6K1wYDf1y_https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLf8krsVAJncCZcfIWm5SfPH6K1wYDf1y_) is finished, and [Alexandria 48BC](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLf8krsVAJncCZvKCFQuVMWpFpoBYeOBna) is in progress. You can find them on YouTube by typing the names. And they are all made by … let me get her name … They are made by [TheBourneFreedom](https://www.youtube.com/user/TheBourneFreedom), on YouTube. And yeah, we are working on other projects that aren’t posted yet. Prince of Omens is finished, and Alexandria 48BC is at maybe three or four episodes posted.

LENA:

But it’s video, right, like, it is not just audio? It has the drawings.

Ecchima:

Yeah, it is video!

LENA:

Okay.

Ecchima:

Yeah, Stella asks the artists, the original artists, if it’s okay to do a fandub, and if they say yes, then she saves the pictures and make the video.

LENA:

Awesome! We’ll have some links on the transcripts so people can find them easily.

So, did you consider auditioning for Crown of Thorns for any roles, since you had already started to do some voice acting?

Ecchima:

I actually did some additional voices for Crown of Thorns. I can’t remember which characters, but they were very, very side characters that you will probably never see again!

LENA:

I’m sorry, I looked at the spreadsheet and I did not realise you were a voice actor as well!

Ecchima:

Yeah, I am basically here to do additional voices at the last minute.

LENA:

Right, so you are a voice actor pinch hitter.

Ecchima:

Yes!

LENA:

Awesome. So, how did you come to be a voice actor pinch hitter?

Ecchima:

I believe that they were asking on the server for a pinch hitter for a voice, and I had already done voice work for TheBourneFreedom for Prince of Omens, and I thought that I could maybe do that. So I said, if you don’t mind the accent, I can do it! And they gave it to me.

LENA:

Alright. And do you remember what the roles were? I know one of them must have been a waiter, I think?

Ecchima:

I did a waiter, but not for Crown of Thorns. I did a waiter for [In Pleasure’s Clothes](https://archiveofourown.org/works/25135834), which is another podfic.

LENA:

No, I just brought the list, and I have here, a shopkeeper, a waiter, and someone called Rosemary, in chapter 40.

Ecchima:

Yeah, I remember doing Rosemary. And I remember doing the shopkeeper as well. I don’t remember the waiter!

LENA:

That’s chapter 23. Unless that was changed last minute, and wasn’t updated in the spreadsheet, which I don’t think happens a lot, because we have a lot of people very on top of the spreadsheet.

Ecchima:

I might have done it, I just, as I said, I have a very bad memory.

LENA:

It’s okay. And, how was the experience of participating as a VA with the project?

Ecchima:

Well, since it was not a big role it was done very quickly, which makes me not do a lot of editing after that. So it’s always fun, because the part that I hate about being a VA is doing the editing! Like, at the moment I am trying to do a podfic for a friend as a very secret, secret gift, and I won’t say the name of the friend, so they won’t know, but, yeah, I am at the editing part of it, and I have done two minutes in three hours. I hate it!

LENA:

Do you do a lot of takes?

Ecchima:

I do two takes every time, just to make sure that there isn’t a train in the background that I didn’t hear or something like that. And because my pronunciation varies because of my accent.

LENA:

Aha, right. Yeah, cause I know, I don’t know if that happens to you, some people get really in depth about taking out all of the breaths and all of the clicks, and like, that really ramps up the time for editing.

Ecchima:

I don’t remove the breaths. Because it makes you sound a bit like a robot. So, I keep the breaths, but when they are loud I edit them so they are a bit more quiet. And I edit all the mouth noises that are very unpleasant, that you hear a lot when you do a recording, but not so much when you talk to someone. That is basically the sound of your mouth opening.

LENA:

Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, I … Do you use the de-clicker?

Ecchima:

No, I only know a bit of Audacity through Crown of Thorns, so that is basically all I know. So, I have used the Crown of Thorns guidelines, and for the rest, I go bit by bit and I erase or add silence when there is a need for it.

LENA:

Right, cause I know there is a, I think it’s a plugin for Audacity, that helps you take out all the clicks at the same time. But I have not played around with it too much, because I tried it once, and it, like, took out too much of the noise, so it took out parts of words. But I know there are people who do a lot of podfic who swear by it, so, yeah. Maybe if that is something that bothers you a lot, maybe you could look into that.

Ecchima:

Yeah, I have a lot of time for that gift, so I am just going to do it bit by bit!

LENA:

Well, good luck with that then!

Ecchima:

Thank you!

LENA:

So, what is your favourite part about voice acting? You just told us that your least favourite part is editing, by far, but...

Ecchima:

So, my favourite part of voice acting is something I do a lot for the comic dubs. It’s that I've been given only villain roles. And playing the bad guy is so fun! I can spend hours saying the same line over and over again so it sounds just right and spooky. I love it!

LENA:

Oh, that is cool, yeah. I … Who did I hear this from as well? I don’t remember, I probably have a friend who was telling me the same thing, like they really like the villain roles, because you can just go for it. Oh no, I remember, it was when I was doing Qwanderer’s interview! I think they said the same thing, because they played Asmodai.

Ecchima:

Yeah, it’s possible. Usually, villains are just very fun roles.

LENA:

Hmhm. So I hear. I need to find myself a good villain to narrate for!

So, let’s go more into your work as an artist, which is the main thing you do. When did you first start drawing, just for yourself?

Ecchima:

Uh, for myself? I don’t think I ever stopped! So, kindergarten?

LENA:

Right! Did you go into making fanart before you figured out what fandom was?

Ecchima:

Probably. I think there has to be a Disney character that I would have drawn somewhere. Like, there’s no way that as a kid that liking something I wouldn’t have drawn something that comes from something that I see, that I love. Probably Pokemon as well.

LENA:

Oh, cool! What’s your favourite Pokemon?

Ecchima:

My favourite Pokemon… I don’t know the name in English! It’s the evolution of Cyndaquil.

LENA:

Oh! I don’t know the name in English, I don’t know the name in Spanish, but I know which one you mean. Yeah, I’m gonna look it up! Quilava, right?

Ecchima:

Yeah, that’s the one.

LENA:

Okay! Thank you, Google! How come that is your favourite Pokemon? That’s a … I don’t know if I ever heard anyone call that their favourite Pokemon.

Ecchima:

Well, first, it’s a fire type, and second, Gold was not my first Pokemon cartridge game. I had Blue, and Red, first. But each was excellent. Like, I spent so many hours on it. And because I was terrible at the game. I had a Quilava forever, and it was my favourite. It was my baby. So I still love him.

LENA:

Fair enough. Yeah, I think that happened to me with Torchic. My first, well, probably not my first, but the Pokemon I played the most was Emerald, and I loved my Torchic, well, Torchic and all of its evolutions, really, but Torchic is the cutest.

Ecchima:

Yeah, I agree!

LENA:

I think Torchic was that one for me. Though I don’t remember if I had like a preference for like any particular type of starter. I know some people are like, “No, I always pick the fire one” or “I always pick the water one”. I don’t know if I did that, I don’t remember.

Ecchima:

Well, when I was little, I wanted to pick always the water ones, because I have an affinity with water. And so, yeah, I had water starters for a long time. And then when I picked Cyndaquil, and I went “Oh no, you are the best, you are my baby now!” And since Cyndaquil I take fire starters, and then recently, for like, how was it called, Moon? Yeah, Moon and Sun, I picked the grass starter for the first time, on my first try. Because it is just so cute, he has a little bow tie!

LENA:

Aww! I haven’t been following Pokemon the latest, in the latest generation, so I have no idea about that one. But I remember I learned about Pokemon through the anime, because my parents recorded it for me on VHS when I was literally a baby. I just sort of grew up with that one, so I remember really liking Bulbasaur. Just, the anime voice for Bulbasaur is so cute, and so...

Ecchima:

It really is. Not that much in French.

LENA:

Really?!

Ecchima:

Yeah. In French it talks a bit like “Bulbasaur” [imitates low voice]. It is not very cute. The fire starter and the water starters are cuter.

LENA:

I have no idea, cause I haven’t listened to the English version, now that you mention it, so I really like the Bulbasaur voice acting in Spanish.

So, that’s the Pokemon you would pick, and talking about picking, how do you pick the chapters that you make cover art for?

Ecchima:

Well, I didn’t know the fanfiction Crown of Thorns. So when I first arrived on the project, I decided to read first, because I wasn’t sure that I would participate. So I started to read the fanfiction. And when a chapter inspired me and it wasn’t taken, then I would take it.

LENA:

Aha. And did you pick very far ahead, or do you still pick chapters here and there.

Ecchima:

I picked - I think the two that I picked, I picked because the deadline was coming up and it didn’t have an artist yet. So I picked those, and then since summer I haven’t had time to read any more, so I haven’t been able to pick other chapters.

LENA:

Right. Yeah, fair enough, sometimes availability is a problem.

And what is your process like for creating cover arts?

Ecchima:

I’d say, for this project especially, I would read the chapter, and highlight which scenes in the chapter I liked, and I want to illustrate. And then I will start sketching maybe two or three thumbnails, to see how I am going to place the characters in that scene. And then I just go.

LENA:

Go from there, right? And how long do you think it would usually take you? You said before a week, if you were really busy - does that apply to cover art?

Ecchima:

One week is more about if I do comics. When I do cover art it’s about three days, maybe four. I think with the amount of detail I put on the cover, it was three days every time.

LENA:

Hmhm, fair enough. On a related note, we had a question for you on Instagram, from ShariShaku, who asked: “Which character or characters, OC or canon, did you prefer to draw?”

Ecchima:

Well. I love my book boys. But I can draw them anytime. So I am going to answer for the OCs. I’d say Sophia is. Is it Sophia that I draw? I can’t remember their names! Oh no!

LENA:

So you did chapter 16 and chapter 27 part one.

Ecchima:

Yeah, I remember it’s Pippa, but the other girl isn’t Sophia, it’s the other one!

LENA:

Oh, it’s Mandy.

Ecchima:

It’s Mandy! There we go. Mandy I love drawing.

LENA:

Pippa and Mandy, is that the chapter where they get the ring?

Ecchima:

Yeah, it’s the chapter where they have the ring and they go to the museum.

LENA:

Right, yeah. I remember that chapter now, yes. And, isn’t chapter 16 the one, beginner’s Archeology or something, or … no, I’m thinking of a different chapter. I was thinking, isn’t Uriel in that chapter, but, no. I think I’m wrong.

Ecchima:

Nono, they come later. OC-wise I only drew Mandy and Pippa, and then my other cover was only Aziraphale and Crowley, and they looked really, really sad.

LENA:

Oh, Babies!

So, What do you like the most and the least about your work as an artist?

Ecchima:

I know it’s controversial that I really, really like lining.

LENA:

Lining! How come?

Ecchima:

Because when you sketch, you still make mistakes. But once the sketch is done, you just turn it at a lower opacity, and you draw the same thing, but it is good-looking, you know!? There aren’t any issues, like, this hand doesn’t look good and I’ve been on it for three hours. No, it’s already there you just draw it cleanly!

LENA:

Right, you have to pick the right line to follow?

Ecchima:

Nono, it’s, when you push your sketch long enough, you don’t have that issue anymore. And it makes lining very enjoyable.

LENA:

Fair enough. I will admit I don’t know a lot about drawing. So, tell us, do you have a favourite cover picture that you’ve drawn, from the ones you’ve drawn, and from the other people?

Ecchima:

The one that I drew, would be the second one that I drew, from that one chapter where Aziraphale and Crowley have a fight, and they look very, very sad. Because I love to hurt them! And from other people, I think I am going to have to say that it is one of Grin’s, because the wedding one is amazing, but there is also another one that I have seen on the server, going around where they both have their wings out, and I can’t really talk much of the covers because I read the fanfiction and I don’t listen to the podcast! But I saw some of them, and, yeah, Grin’s art is amazing, it looks beautiful.

LENA:

Yeah, I think the one you are talking about is the one from chapter 52, The First Storm, which we already posted, so that one’s fine. Where they are in the Garden, right, with their wings?

((Posting Lena: I was wrong! It was 15 (the wedding) and 42 (the kitchen)! Thank you for finding it, Rhi.))

Ecchima:

I can’t remember! Yeah, they were in the kitchen, I believe.

LENA:

In a kitchen! Oh, wait...

Ecchima:

And the mouse was there. Am I misremembering? Cause I could be.

LENA:

The only one that I remember in a kitchen was chapter 8 I believe, with the coffee machine.

Ecchima:

Oh no, that’s not the one.

LENA:

And wings! Oh maybe I just haven’t seen it. Maybe it’s coming up and I haven’t seen it, which could be, could be!

So, we’ve come to our final question for you: What is something that you’ve learned during this project?

Ecchima:

Well. Something that I have learned. That is a good question. I don’t really know, cause, like, I didn’t learn something artistically, I have been illustrating for fanfiction before. I have done two fanzines that are basically fanfiction illustrated. But, so, that is not something that I did for the first time. I was doing VA work before, so I didn’t learn much about VA.

Oh, I did learn, because there are guidelines for Crown of Thorns, I did learn to use Audacity, which is really helpful! So that’s a thing that I have learned, but I don’t think there's much else.

LENA:

Fair enough, yeah. The guidelines for VAs are actually really cool, I really like them, too.

Ecchima:

Yeah, they are very, very useful.

LENA:

Hmhm. Well. Thank you a lot for talking with us, Echhima. Tell us, where can people find you online?

Ecchima:

They can find me on any social media, if they type my name, because my branding was done right.

LENA:

Awesome. We will also have links to your social media on the transcript for this interview, in case people don’t want to type. And that would be all. Thank you very much for talking with us!

Ecchima:

Thank you for having me!

LENA:

So, this was all we had for today! Next time, we’ll be talking to Izzy and Phinnsy, the voices of Uriel and Raphael, so keep your ears ready for that!

OUTRO MUSIC


	19. Interview with Izzy and phinnsy

**Interview with Izzy and phinnsy** ****

We are halfway through the mammoth project that is Crown of Thorns Podrama, and we've got some extra content for you all!  
Along our way, we have managed to gather an amazing team of voice actors, editors, artists, musicians, and organizers.  
This is the start of a series of interviews with the team about their experience and involvement with the Crown of Thorns Podrama.  
We're continuing our interviews with Izzy and phinnsy.

Kendra 'Izzy' Murray, who is an actor for the CoT project, playing the role of Uriel.  
She got into the fandom around the time the Amazon series came out when a friend introduced her to it, and she's been hooked on it ever since.  
So when the opportunity came up to create something for the fandom she's come to love, she jumped at the chance.  
She's been acting on stage for fifteen years, and voice acting for six, though this will be her first podfic.  
You can also hear her playing a variety of characters on Fools Gold Theatre Productions’ Supernatural Genderswap podcast, including a very particular trickster.  
She’s very glad to be part of this project and is excited to embark on something new and wonderful, with a great group of people. 

phinnsy is on the voice cast for the CoT project. Most of his live acting experience has been on stage as a classical vocalist and opera singer, occasionally also doing straight plays.  
Though now no longer actively pursuing opera as a career, he continues to perform as a choral singer and recitalist.  
He began his venture into voice acting when he created phinnsyreads.tumblr.com in 2018, where he put his readings of Tumblr posts, poetry, vignettes, articles, and shitposts.  
He is now showrunner, narrator, director, editor, and occasional composer for his podcast The SCP Foundation Database, an immersive audio storytelling series based in the world of the SCP Foundation.  
Though chiefly an SCP reader, the podcast includes radio play elements and a meta-narrative around the personnel accessing the files being read.  
phinnsy first read Good Omens a decade ago and rediscovered his love of it with the recent TV adaptation.  
He has begun reading Crown of Thorns and is enjoying it immensely.

Love,  
The CoT Pod'rama Team

Listen - [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/2ofnbtxHaZTz3udL6CbY7n?si=OQaI9gSySW2oRX5gDC1Y6g) / [Anchor](https://anchor.fm/crown-of-thorns-podrama/episodes/Interview-with-Izzy-and-phinnsy-emg90e)  
Listen and Download - [Archive.org](https://archive.org/details/interview-with-izzy-and-phinnsy)

**Where to Find Izzy**  
[AO3](https://archiveofourown.org/users/Izzybutt) / [Tumblr](https://izzybutt.tumblr.com/) / [Twitter](https://twitter.com/KendraIzzy) / [Fools Gold](https://foolsgoldtheatre.podbean.com/)

**Where to Find phinnsy**  
[Tumblr](https://phinnsyreads.tumblr.com/) / [Soundcloud](https://soundcloud.com/thescpfoundationdatabase/tracks) / [Website](https://www.scpdatapodcast.com/)

**Interview with Izzy and phinnsy Team**  
Hosted By - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Composer - [ Nuitarie](https://soundcloud.com/nuitarie) Chapter Artist - [CompassRose](https://outlikethat.tumblr.com/)  
Interview Editor - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Head Editor - [UnholyCrowley](https://archiveofourown.org/users/UnholyCrowley) Transcripts By - [AJfanfic](https://archiveofourown.org/users/ajfanfic)

Length - 35:41 minutes

Question Time Stamps

00:10 Introduction. Tell us a bit about yourselves before we start, where are you from, what do you do aside from fandom?  
02:49 How did you land in fandom?  
03:56 Were you in fandom at the time that you read Good Omens?  
05:13 Do you do other fannish creative things?  
07:47 How do you find these creative things in relation to audio creation?  
09:44 Were you guys aware of podfic before?  
11:08 Is the podfic community very different from the podcast community?  
12:45 Have you ever created/read an audiobook?  
14:41 Have you guys recorded podfic since starting CoT?  
16:24 How did you guys find out about the story and the podrama?  
17:21 Did you know what the story was about?  
18:14 Did you have a character in mind for auditions?  
20:23 What is it like to be Uriel and Raphael?  
22:00 Could you describe each other's characters from your POV?  
23:47 Have you ever thought of recording together?  
24:34 What do you guys think of Uriel and Raphael's relationship is built both before the story and through the first few chapters?  
25:25 Do you guys have any tips for listeners who'd like to do professional voice acting?  
27:06 What's something about your characters that you guys identify with?  
29:07 Is there a character you feel you connect with better in CoT?  
30:08 Do you memorize your lines?  
31:46 Do you act them out physically?  
32:49 What's something you've learned during this project?  
34:13 Where can people find you?

Transcript:

INTRO MUSIC

LENA:

Hello everyone, and welcome to our cast and crew Q&A. My name is Lena, and today I have for you an interview with Izzy and Phinnsy. Izzy is an actor for the Crown of Thorns project playing the role of Uriel. She got into the fandom around the time the Amazon series came out, when a friend introduced her to it, and she's been hooked on it ever since. So when the opportunity came out to create something for the fandom she'd come to love, she jumped at the chance. She's been acting on stage for 15 years and voice acting for six though this will be her first podfic. You can also hear her playing a variety of characters in Fools Gold Theater Productions, a Supernatural genderswap podcast, including a very particular trickster. She's very glad to be part of this project and is excited to embark on something new and wonderful with a great group of people. Phinnsy is on the voice cast for the Crown of Thorns project, playing the role of Raphael. Most of his live acting experience has been on stage as a classical vocalist and opera singer, occasionally also doing straight plays. Though no longer actively pursuing opera as a career, he continues to perform as a choral singer and recitalist. He began his venture into voice acting when he created phinnsyreads.tumblr.com in 2018, where he put his readings on Tumblr posts, vignettes, articles, and shitposts. He is now show runner, narrator, director, editor, and occasional composer, for his podcast, The SCP Database, an immersive audio storytelling series based in the world of the SCP Foundation. Though chiefly an SCP reader, the podcast includes radio play elements in a metanarrative around the personnel accessing the files being read. Phinnsy first read Good Omens almost a decade ago and rediscovered his love of it with the recent TV adaptation, he has begun reading Crown of Thorns and is enjoying it immensely. Guys, it's an honor to have you with us today. So tell us a bit about yourself before we start. Where are you from and what do you do aside from fandom?

IZZY:

Ok, well, I'm from Atlantic, Canada and I am an accounts payable associate for a lumber conglomerate. Very exciting. I know. And on the side, I do theater, dinner theater, various voice acting things. That's about it.

LENA:

Awesome. Phinnsy?

PHINNSY:

I am from Nashville, Tennessee. I spend most of my days at home taking care of my grandmother. I also have a church gig singing in a choir, although we're not singing as much at the moment, with the state of the world. I also do editing work for a couple of podcasts and some side recording, studio recording, gigs.

LENA:

Awesome. So how did you guys land in fandom?

IZZY:

I was always like that weird little kid on the playground that's like acting out stories for their friends and stuff, like we all know that one kid and I didn't really get into, like, actual fandom itself until I was probably about I think it was about 12. There was like another middle school girl that she, like, introduced me to fanfiction.net. And it kind of spiraled from there.

PHINNSY:

Yeah, I can't remember when I first- like what got me on fanfiction.net. I didn't read all that much, but I do remember getting hooked on this one Kingdom Hearts fan fiction in high school and then being extremely bummed out when it stopped getting updated.

LENA:

That's a mood.

PHINNSY:

Yeah.

IZZY:

Oh yeah.

PHINNSY:

I hear that's fairly common.

IZZY:

I’ve been on both sides of that equation.

PHINNSY:

Oh?

LENA:

Me too.

IZZY:

Whoops.

LENA:

Whoopsie. And were you both in fandom at the time that you first read or first found Good Omens?

IZZY:

Oh, I didn't find Good Omens until the Amazon series came out, and by that point I was like just generally into every other fandom under the sun and obsessing over them on the daily.

LENA:

Right.

PHINNSY:

Um, I think- I think it was my friend Toby that introduced me to good omens in college, they lent me their book. I read it then and then I sort of forgot about it for a few years and then the Amazon series came out and I got super excited about it, although I had been hearing- I follow Neil Gaiman on Tumblr and so I was getting sort of little updates about that this was now in production and getting super excited leading up to it, finally being released and just absolutely loving the series once it was out. I need to watch it a third time. I've watched it twice now.

IZZY:

Only twice?

PHINNSY:

Only twice, right?

LENA:

Yeah. And so you're both into audio creation in general, but do you do other fannish creative things, like in terms of fandom I mean.

IZZY:

Not on the same scale as this, like this is my first podfic, not my last, but my first, but I've been doing other stuff like with Fools Gold Theater Production. They do, I guess it's sort of like a podfic, sort of. It's like they've taken the episodes of Supernatural and just genderswapped everything. So we're playing like- and they've inserted sort of like some of their own works in there, too. So we're doing like some original, like episodes in there and stuff. So in that sense, sort of. But yeah, this is the first like true like podfic kind of experience I've been having. So.

LENA:

And in terms of like other creative things, you've mentioned that you've been that person who wrote a fic and never finished it.

IZZY:

Yeah, yeah. Multiple times. My hard drive is full of abandoned fanfics. I am a terrible fanfic mother. All of my children are left to starve. I’m so sorry babies.

PHINNSY:

What fandoms are the fics for? The unfinished ones.

IZZY:

Oh G-d, I have so many. So many. Most recently, I've been getting into like the Bright Sessions again, which is another podcast which is super good, I totally recommend it. And I've got a lot for Pacific Rim. Like way more than is healthy. There's a fic on there that has lived on my hard drive for like six years untouched and I need to get back to it. It's like one like one chapter left to go. And I'm like, oh no, not today.

LENA:

Any artsy kind of stuff or just writing?

IZZY:

It's mostly writing like I do some like abstract painting and stuff now and then, but it's nothing like fandom based really. I am not an arter. God.

LENA:

Got it. So what about you Phinnsy?

PHINNSY:

Um as far as related to like fandom not- not really, there's- I mean, I always have- there's a couple of fandoms that I'm a part of that I've always thought maybe I'll write something and then, you know, just obviously it never happens. I'm that person with all the ideas that never puts them- all the ideas for writing something, but never actually writes it. I used to write a lot more when I was in college, but not so much anymore.

LENA:

And how do you guys find the different creative things that you do, or maybe, how do they relate to audio creation? Do you find that similar? Different?

IZZY:

I find it very different cause the role that I have in this, it's voice acting, so basically I step in a booth and I talk to myself for about an hour and sometimes make weird noises with my mouth, but with, like, actually sitting down and creating stuff it's a lot of- there's a lot more like self-loathing and procrastinating. And it's like, oh, I'm responsible for this. What do I do? And then there's a lot of walking away and then coming back and then walking away again and then coming back. Yeah. Yeah. With voice acting, you kind of just you got to commit and just send it off and be done with it.

PHINNSY:

Yeah, I completely agree on all points. It's nice to be able to have a specific goal, sit down, get it done, have fun with it, but knowing what the deadline is, what you have to do, and then- I like the sort of structure that gives you to be creative around, rather than having to sort of pull your creativity out of thin air by doing something on your own. If that makes sense.

LENA:

So is there more like an aspect of community being a voice actor than perhaps a writer?

PHINNSY:

Oh yeah.

IZZY:

Yeah, there is and there isn't, because I'm alone in a booth when I do it, so that's like not so much community in that aspect, but then when you see, like, the whole thing coming together and it's just like, oh, my G-d, there's people from all over the world also standing in a closet talking to themselves for an hour. And that's all made this wonderful thing. It's like, oh, it's nice.

LENA:

So you're both in the podcast, I want to say industry or community. Did you guys get involved into podfic, or did you know about podfic, before or after you started to podcast?

IZZY:

I did and I didn’t. I stumbled across like podfics like many, many years ago, and I listen to exactly one and I don't remember which one it was or even which fandom it was for, but it was really bad. Like the sound quality was bad, the acting was just bad. And I was just like, oh, this is what podfics are, no thank you, not for me. And I just assumed they were all like that. And then I found, you know, things like this and it's like, oh, they can be good. OK.

PHINNSY:

Yeah, I had no idea podfics were a thing until I heard about this, but then looking back at it, it's like, why wouldn't it be a thing like. Especially now with how popular podcasts have become, like there's all this material just waiting to be recorded. Why wouldn't it be a thing? I'm really glad that my first experience with podfic is something so well organized and well put together.

IZZY:

Oh, same.

LENA:

And how have you found the podfic community now that you're more of a part of it. Is it very different from the podcast community?

IZZY:

With the podcast community, I wasn't so much into it then because even then I was still just like working as a voice actor, like they were just giving me the roles and I was doing them and I was kind of distanced from the rest of it. But, yeah, this community is- it's- the little bit that I've seen of it, because so far it's just like the Good Omens one. But it's wonderful. Everybody is so talented and lovely and I just love them all and I want to give them hugs. But it is COVID so let's not do that.

PHINNSY:

Let’s not do that.

IZZY:

Hugs from six feet.

LENA:

Not yet. Not yet.

IZZY:

Nope.

PHINNSY:

My community, my podcast community is almost entirely made up of friends so far or friends of friends, like I've gotten gigs from people who know a guy, you know. So it's been sort of insular in that aspect. I haven't really gotten to know that many new people through my own podcasting, but through this, it's amazing to be surrounded by so many, well figuratively surrounded by so many, extremely passionate people and people that are passionate about something that you are also passionate about. It's always fun to meet new people like that.

LENA:

And so because podcasting, to a certain extent, it's sort of like combining the part of writing that's like creating something new out of thin air, like you said, and then reading it and podficcing, in a sense, is sort of like creating an audiobook for it. So have you guys ever created or read an audiobook?

IZZY:

I've sort of gotten into audiobooks lately because I have to- a lot of my work is like data entry based and we're thankfully allowed to like listen to music and like podcasts and stuff like that at work. So I've been bingeing few books here and there.

LENA:

Yeah, but have you voiced, I meant, an audiobook?

IZZY:

Not yet. I've been looking at a few. We're getting there. There's a bit of- the closest I've come so far is I used to be like- with Fools Gold, we've had some technical issues lately, so we haven't come out with a lot of stuff. But they used to do for the past few Halloweens they would do these creepypasta things. And so we would read that. And it's like a little baby audiobook. But scary. That's the closest I've come so far, but I liked it.

PHINNSY:

Yeah, my podcast is pretty much, not exactly an audiobook, but that's pretty much what it- because it's in an SCP foundation adaptation, so it's all stuff that's already written and we sort of put a twist on it to make it a bit more immersive than just an audiobook, but I would love to do more stuff- like there's actually a few stories, few ongoing chapter series that I would love to be a part of at some point.

LENA:

Awesome. So have you guys- Izzy, you mentioned this is your first, but not your last. So have you guys recorded for, well, either for Good Omens or for other fandoms since starting Crown of Thorns?

IZZY:

Yes, I think there's- I think there's one that's coming out that has- I think it has you and me in it, I'm not sure, in a little bit. Yeah. So, yeah, there's been a few. I have my spreadsheet up so I can reference it, but there's been a few- [_Disturbances_ ](https://archiveofourown.org/works/25124209)was one of them. That was also in the Good Omens- oh sorry! Some Mason jars. [_You Are Cordially Invited_](https://archiveofourown.org/works/25707547)and[ _The Aftermath_](https://archiveofourown.org/works/25708309), I played Amanda in that. Like I've just been getting invites from people that are like in the Crown of Thorns group and it's just like sure, yeah, I’m up for anything.

LENA:

And you have a spreadsheet.

IZZY:

I have yeah, I have a spreadsheet full of everything I've done because I have a terrible memory and way too many roles.

LENA:

Truly a part of the podfic community, then. The podfic community is obsessed with spreadsheets for some reason.

IZZY:

I love spreadsheets. They're great, mine’s color coded.

LENA:

That's so cute. Phinnsy?

PHINNSY:

I haven't gotten the opportunity to do any other podfics yet, but I would absolutely love to.

LENA:

Awesome. Looking forward to hearing your voice in some other projects then.

PHINNSY:

Yeah, me too. I hope I get the opportunity.

LENA:

Well, you can always create your own podfic on your own.

PHINNSY:

I was just about to say that, I can always create my own opportunity.

IZZY:

That’s true, yeah.

LENA

If you don't find one, make your own, so they say. So more specifically, about Crown of Thorns, how do you guys find out about the story and then about the podrama?

IZZY:

I found out because of Neil Gaiman.

PHINNSY:

I did too.

IZZY:

Yeah, some body who decided to- they asked him to reblog this and I'm like, well, heck yes, I'm going to join this. And I hadn't read the fic beforehand, but then I saw the author's name and I was like, wait a minute, that sounds familiar. And I've read so many of their other fanfics, like over the years, like mostly in the Pacific Rim and I was like, this is this person. What? So I had to jump in.

PHINNSY:

Yeah, I saw the same post reblogged by Neil Gaiman, so that's- with everything else that he had been talking about with the new series, I knew that I really, really wanted to get involved with that and I'm happy I was able to.

LENA:

And what- did you have any idea what the story was about, or did you just see it and you were like, I trust Neil Gaiman with my life?

IZZY:

I had no idea at all. I just saw a voice acting opportunity, related to Good Omens. So that's in my wheelhouse. Let's do it.

PHINNSY:

Yeah, I had no idea and I know Neil Gaiman specifically said quite a few times that he does not read fanfiction, whether or not that's true, I don't know. I just know he legally cannot have read any fanfiction, but I knew it was slash fic, and I've read some and yeah. That's basically all I knew about it, and that it was very big and well-loved.

LENA:

So going in blind did you guys have a character in mind for audition or like, did you read any at all before auditioning or you just went in and you went like, I want the character with about this many lines.

IZZY:

I just kind of leapt in and I looked at the spreadsheet that was, again, the spreadsheets, we love them and I saw one that was Canadian and I was like, hey, I'm Canadian. Let's go with that one.

LENA:

Fair enough.

PHINNSY:

I auditioned for, stupidly, the narrator, because I know I wouldn't have been able to keep up with all of that, I can’t imagine how- I can’t imagine how Podfixx does it. And basically, I auditioned for characters that I knew, so I auditioned for Aziraphale and for Crowley and for Newt because I feel like I have a lot in common with Newt so that would be an easy character for me. But yeah, I hadn't read any of it beforehand so I auditioned for characters that I knew and figured if they think I would be better for a character, for an original character, then they would know better than me. So.

LENA:

And well, Izzy, you obviously got Uriel, but how do you feel about getting Raphael after not having really known who he was before?

PHINNSY:

I'm- I love playing Raphael. I'm so glad that they gave him to me and I'm glad that I was given, in the end, I am glad I was given a character that I wasn't familiar with so that I could sort of build them up in my head rather than basing them off of a character that I had in mind while reading the original book or off of the way specific actor played them. So, yeah, I'm glad I got to build them up based on just what was in front of me.

LENA:

So what is it like when you sit down and you think, OK, I'm going to record. What is it like being Uriel and Raphael?

IZZY:

Well, I don't sit, I have to stand, unfortunately, with the way my booth is structured, but the process is basically, oh no, this is due in two weeks and it takes me a week to edit it. Better get in there. Past that like, a lot of Uriel is just- it's just my voice for the most part. Like there's like, you know, some inflections up in here. She says some words differently than I do, which is weird because it's the Canadian accent. But apparently I don't have a real Canadian accent. I honestly, I have so many notes in my thing that says sorry instead of sorry because I'm so used to pronouncing it my way and not the Canadian way. But yeah, it's mostly just like making sure that I've prepared for the material, like I read the chapter again so I know the context of the lines and then I immediately forget the context of the lines and have to go back.

PHINNSY:

Same. Yeah, I mean, I make sure that I've read the chapter, I know the context for lines, and Raphael is basically- I feel like it's sort of developed over the course of it, but he sort of just speaks in a much more- like it's much smoother. It- he sort of sinks through the lines just a little bit. And just- Yeah.

LENA:

All right, so often when I do these interviews with voice actors, I ask them to describe their characters from their point of view. But since you're both here and you're clearly both already used to your own characters, could you describe each other's characters from your point of view?

PHINNSY:

Oh gosh.

IZZY:

Oh goody, heehee, Raphael, is a delight and I love him. He is- I like that- I like so much, especially, Phinnsy, how he's brought like so much to the character with the voice, like reading him on paper is like different than hearing it entirely. He's you know, he's a little shit and he's a smarmy bastard. But at the same time, there's like this like genuine like softness there. It's like, oh, I just love ‘em.

PHINNSY:

Yeah, Uriel is tortured, but sort of- she still tries to enjoy life on earth as much as she can, despite some of her duties. She's a lot of fun. I love- going to say I love playing against you, but it's so hard to properly do that when we're separated by hundreds of miles and not being in the same room or even recording at the same time.

IZZY:

Yeah.

PHINNSY:

But yeah.

IZZY:

You know, I find the more, though, that I've heard your voice, it's like, OK, I think I can get kind of a sense of like how he might do this line and then I'll play off of it that way. Yeah.

PHINNSY:

And it does help. Having heard you over the course of 60 chapters. Yeah.

LENA:

Have you guys ever thought of doing like a joint recording session?

IZZY:

Hmmm, I think given how many logistics went into just scheduling this interview, it would be a bit of a-

LENA:

Well, but I'm sure two time zones is better than coordinating three.

IZZY:

That’s probably true, but it's still- I think it's still a four-hour difference or something. Yeah. And I work during the days and you're busy in the evenings and stuff, so I just- it probably wouldn't work out all that well.

PHINNSY:

Probably not. And as many times as I end up reading lines, it would just be a mistake after mistake after mistake on my end.

IZZY:

Same, same. I do like 60 takes a line. You would be there forever.

LENA:

Oh, well. So what do you guys think of Uriel and Raphael's sort of interactions and the way their relationship is built, somehow, before we met them in the story, but also through the first few chapters that we see them?

IZZY:

I really like seeing sort of that journey, like when they first breeze in, they're just like, oh, God, these assholes again. And it's just- you haven't met them yet, but you already know they are going to be trying and they do. But then you see the depth of it like you had to see, OK, Uriel’s got this kind of baggage and Raphael is this kind of person. And it's just OK, we can see this like develop, this is an interesting dynamic. There's more there than we thought.

PHINNSY:

Basically my words exactly.

LENA:

So I have a bit of a different question that than usual, because we haven't found a lot of people who are in the podcasting world so far, but do you guys have any tips for our listeners who might want to cross that bridge between having a fannish sort of interest and doing that, well, professionally, really?

IZZY:

For the podcasting side, I can't really say too much because I'm not so much into, like, you know, like the publishing and like the editing and that kind of thing, I'm mostly into the voice acting thing. So really the only advice I can give for that is take care of your voice, because I've seen way too many out there that they don't drink enough water, they don't do their warm ups. They strain themselves and they do too many things back to back. And that's like, this is your instrument, this is your baby. You got to take care of it. And that's like the core rule for anything involving your voice.

PHINNSY:

Yeah. And as far as podcasting goes, I would just say find something you are... you already have a lot to say about. Like if it's just like the two people talking sort of thing, find someone who- with a very similar interest and also level of knowledge as you do, and talk about something that you already have a lot to say about. Or something that you already have an immense interest in or something that you- do something that you know you are good at, it makes everything else go a lot smoother.

LENA:

Fair enough. So what is one thing about your characters that you guys identify with?

IZZY:

Oh, oh, I love Uriel. Well, she is Canadian, so there's that, although she is a Leafs fan. So I cannot with that. No, sorry, Habs for life. I don't even watch hockey. Who am I kidding? Yeah, I- my thing with her is like she has like, you know, this trouble letting go, with things and of people and of that sort of thing. And I, I definitely identify with that. A whole heck of a bunch. Yeah. And she's also stuck doing a job that she'd rather not, and I think we've all been there, we've all worked retail at one time or another.

PHINNSY:

I think the fun of playing Raphael is that I have almost nothing in common with him. Like, I don't think I'm smarmy, G-d, definitely, if I am, it’s certainly not to that degree. I don't do drugs in any way, like. Yeah, when I first started reading Raphael, he just was not someone I felt like I could be friends with at all. And to some extent, that's still true. But then you see him, like, alone, how he is by himself or with Uriel, and you start to be able to connect with him a bit more. He's still. I mean, he's not human, but he is very human and complicated and not just a smarmy bastard. And so I guess I connect with him as a human in that sense, as far as individual traits go, I- it's fun being able to play someone that shares so few of them with me.

LENA:

Fair enough. So is there a character that you feel like you connect with better within the cast of Crown of Thorns? And you, as well, Izzy?

IZZY:

I think I think out of- out of the whole cast, I probably identify with Uriel the most, but that might be because I've spent so much time getting into her head. Probably the second closest would be maybe Crowley. And it's nothing like any tangible thing. It's just we vibe, we on the same wavelength.

PHINNSY:

Yeah, Newt, maybe, as I said, I just, I am that awkward person.

LENA:

Are you good with tech, by any chance?

PHINNSY:

I am better at tech than Newt is. I don't completely obliterate everything I touch.

IZZY:

That’s a marketable skill, yeah.

PHINNSY:

Yeah.

LENA:

So, because this was something that came up with one of our cast members that was really into theater, or did theater semi-professionally, do you guys, because you also have a background in theater, do you memorize your lines? Or do you read them?

IZZY:

I- definitely not, no, they are directly in front of my face. But it’s- with me, when I memorize lines for theater, I have to associate it with like the physical gestures I’m doing at the time, it’s just the way my brain works. But if I’ve said a line, like I said, I do about sixty takes a line sometimes, so eventually, I will start to memorize it without intending to memorize it.

LENA:

Right.

PHINNSY:

Yeah, definitely don’t memorize my lines. But I like, when I read the chapter I’m already thinking exactly how am I going to say this, what words do I need to highlight, what is he feeling at the moment, what is he trying to say underneath his words. And then going back to actually record, I’m trying to recall those things. It would probably help me if I wrote things down in the initial reading, it would probably make the actual recording go more smoothly, I wouldn’t have to do so many takes. But no, I definitely don’t- I don’t memorize them. They’re right in front of me.

LENA:

Fair enough. And do you, especially Izzy, because you said you record standing up, do you act them physically, like moving around?

IZZY:

I don’t intend to, but it just kind of happens. There are multiple bloopers of me just throwing my hand into the mic stand out of anger and it’s like, oh no, I’m not meant to actually be angry. I- Cause I’m so used to like the theater background, it’s like, this is the gesture I would make but I’m in a three by three booth, can’t do that today.

PHINNSY:

Yeah, I gesture involuntarily, and it would probably help me a lot to actually be standing because I have the squeakiest chair known to humanity, and so I can’t- I’ve managed to train myself to sit still for the most part, but my hands are typically coming pretty close to the mic and thankfully not hitting it too often.

LENA:

Awesome. So, for our final question that I ask everyone, what is something that you’ve learned during this project?

IZZY:

I have learned how to edit my voice so it’s not as terrible, thankfully, cause they have that template for us all to put into Audacity to clear out the pops and everything and it’s like oh my G-d, I could have been doing this this whole time. Because with Fools Gold, I just send them off the entire file and they work their magic with it, because I don’t know what they want out of the lines I’ve taken half the time. But with this, I can actually go through and pick and choose and it’s like oh, okay.

PHINNSY:

I have learned that it’s- I hadn’t had to read smut before this. I’ve learned that it’s a lot easier that I thought it would be, but going back to edit it is super awkward.

IZZY:

Yeah. Same.

LENA:

Oh, what a mood. What an actual mood.

IZZY:

The hardest part, I find, of reading smut stuff is, I’m apparently a very breathy speaker, so I have to edit all this whoosh sounds in the background, I’m like what was I doing?

LENA:

Ah, that’s interesting, okay. Cool. Well, thank you very much for talking with us Izzy, Phinnsy. So tell us, where can people find you online?

IZZY:

You can find me on [Tumblr](https://izzybutt.tumblr.com/) and [Archive of our Own](https://archiveofourown.org/users/Izzybutt) at IzzyButt and on [Twitter](https://twitter.com/KendraIzzy) at KendraIzzy

PHINNSY:

You can find me on Twitter at Phinnsy. My podcast, SCP Foundation Database is on [SoundCloud](https://soundcloud.com/thescpfoundationdatabase), we also have a website that is [www.scpdatapodcast.com](http://www.scpdatapodcast.com), or [www.scpfoundationdatabase.com](http://www.scpfoundationdatabase.com) also takes you to the same place.

LENA:

Awesome. And for anyone looking at the transcript on AO3, there will be links for all of this.

IZZY:

Thank you.

PHINNSY:

Thanks for having us.

LENA:

So, this was all we have for today. Next time, we’ll be talking to DearestAngel, one of our artists, so keep your ears ready for that.

OUTRO MUSIC


	20. Interview with Dearest-Angel

**Interview with Dearest-Angel** ****

We are halfway through the mammoth project that is Crown of Thorns Podrama, and we've got some extra content for you all!  
Along our way, we have managed to gather an amazing team of voice actors, editors, artists, musicians, and organizers.  
This is the start of a series of interviews with the team about their experience and involvement with the Crown of Thorns Podrama.  
We're continuing our interviews with Dearest-Angel, who has been a fan of the Good Omens book for many years, and part of the Tumblr fandom almost as long.  
She has followed the Crown of Thorns verse for quite a few years, too, and is thrilled to see it coming to life as a podfic (especially after her own aborted attempt at turning it into a podfic a few years ago).  
She has contributed some cover art for the CoT Podrama Project.

Love,  
The CoT Pod'rama Team

Listen - [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/1E4PCgeqwwmdYwZfD6YMcP?si=cts2T2rcQdqwCzRjWK14vw) / [Anchor](https://anchor.fm/crown-of-thorns-podrama/episodes/Interview-with-Dearest-Angel-emr0j1)  
Listen and Download - [Archive.org](https://archive.org/details/interview-with-dearest-angel)

**Where to Find Dearest-Angel**  
[Tumblr](https://dearest-angel.tumblr.com/)

**Interview with Dearest-Angel Team**  
Hosted By - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Composer - [ Nuitarie](https://soundcloud.com/nuitarie) Chapter Artist - [CompassRose](https://outlikethat.tumblr.com/)  
Interview Editor - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Head Editor - [UnholyCrowley](https://archiveofourown.org/users/UnholyCrowley) Transcripts By - [AJfanfic](https://archiveofourown.org/users/ajfanfic) & [CompassRose](https://outlikethat.tumblr.com/)

Length - 27:41 minutes

Question Time Stamps

00:10 Introduction. Tell us a bit about yourself, where are you from, what do you do aside from fandom?  
02:26 How did you land in fandom?  
04:29 What other creative things do you do? Are they similar or different from art, creatively?  
06:57 When did you find out podfic existed?  
08:15 What was your first podfic?  
08:57 Did you consider auditioning for CoT?  
09:45 How did you find out about CoT the fic? Had you finished it when the podrama came up?  
13:26 When did you decide you wanted to participate as an artist?  
14:12 How did you feel when you realized the podrama was being made?  
15:05 When did you first start drawing?  
17:00 How do you pick the chapters you make cover art for?  
18:52 What is your process like for creating cover art?  
19:47 How long would that usually take you?  
19:56 What do you like the most and the least about your work as an artist?  
20:32 Do you have a favourite cover art by you/by other people?  
23:55 What's something you've learned during this project?  
26:26 Where can people find you online?

Transcript: 

INTRO MUSIC

LENA:

Hello, everyone, and welcome to our cast and crew Q&A. My name is Lena, and today I have for you an interview with Dearest-Angel or Miriam. Miriam has been a fan of the Good Omens book for many years and part of the Tumblr fandom almost as long. She has followed the Crown of Thorns ‘verse for quite a few years, too, and is thrilled to see it coming to life as a podfic, especially after her own aborted attempt at turning it into a podfic a few years ago. She has contributed some cover art for the Crown of Thorns Pod’rama project. Miriam, it's an honor to have you with us today. Tell us a bit about yourself before we start. Where are you from and what do you do aside from fandom?

DEAREST-ANGEL:

So I am - I live in Auckland, New Zealand, and what I do outside of fandom is I - in a nutshell, I guess, work on teaching materials and that's sort of my day job. But other than that, I do a lot of reading, a lot of writing, a lot of drawing and more hobbies than you can shake a stick at.

LENA:

Awesome. What is, if you don't mind me asking, what is teaching materials? Are you a teacher or do you create books like textbooks, or...?

DEAREST-ANGEL:

I used to be a teacher and now I work at a hospital in learning and development and I help build training materials for doctors, nurses, pharmacists and things like that.

LENA:

Oh, cool. All right. That's very, very cool. And I imagine that's being, like, impeded by the situation with COVID-19 and everything, right?

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Actually, it's - my job has blown up, like, it has gotten super busy. (laughter)

LENA:

Ok, well, I don't know if that's a good or a bad thing, but hey. (laughter)

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Yeah, they all have to learn new protocols, they all have to learn PPE, and so... We've been building lots of training materials.

(laughter)

LENA:

Well, good luck with the training materials I guess. (laughter)

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Thank you.

LENA:

Thank you for them because they are probably very much needed. So - take us back. How did you first land in fandom?

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Ummmm... Gosh, I think I probably stumbled into the Good Omens fandom on Tumblr after being on Tumblr for Zombies Run, actually. I hadn't really - I had a Tumblr account for a very long time, hadn't really used it, and then started doing Zombies Run, ended up living on Tumblr and finding other things that I enjoyed on there. And the Good Omens fandom is one of those, having read the book in high school, and I won't tell the listeners how long ago that was! So having read the book in high school and loved it and then was very happy to find that there was a place where I could contribute my own little screamings and squealings about the book. But that was- that was a few years ago now. I think - I think I counted and it was like 13 years ago or something, something like that. Or maybe it was 2013. I don't remember which way around that is

LENA:

And what was the Good Omens fandom like back then?

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Because it was all based on the book, there were - there were no redhead Crowleys, (laughter) it was all dark-haired Crowleys everywhere, there was a lot of debate of how to say Crowley's name, and I'm glad to say I've always been on the right side of that debate. And it was just really nice. It was just like - it had its moments where things blew up. But in general, it was just a really nice welcoming place to be.

LENA:

So in the general context of fandom, what other creative things do you do? You mentioned you write and you have a lot of hobbies. How do you find them similar or different from art in a creative way?

DEAREST-ANGEL:

With my art, I mostly do sort of... fanfiction type art, so I do art of characters and I do art of things that I enjoy reading about or watching, whereas when it comes to my writing, I - I don't really do much in the way of fanfic writing. I would say it's probably mostly original writing, although having said that - no, no, I do have to say some fanfic writing some as I - wait! So yeah, I'm a long time Pern fanfic writer, so there is that, but I think I think that's pretty much the only fanfic I've ever... done, and that's sort of been ongoing for, again, won't mention how many years.

LENA:

All right, and - and this original - original writing you do, are you published?

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Oh, it will never see the light of day.

LENA:

Oh, OK. (laughter) Just wondering in case you wanted a shout out. But -

DEAREST-ANGEL:

No, no...

LENA:

\- that's very much all right. And so creatively, how do you feel writing and art would be either similar or different?

DEAREST-ANGEL:

For me, they're quite different outlets. I was thinking about the way I treat art - like art, for me, it's it's not something I've ever really... built up a lot of skills, in that I use it as a- as a- As an expression of joy and and enjoyment of something. Whereas I use the writing as a- as a therapeutic thing. I can't create art when I'm not feeling creative, but I can write when I'm not feeling creative.

LENA:

Oh, interesting. All right, and what about podfic? You mentioned in your bio that you had tried to do a podfic of Crown of Thorns before. When did you find out podfic existed?

DEAREST-ANGEL:

What, podfic in general?

LENA:

In general.

DEAREST-ANGEL:

\- or this podfic?

LENA:

No, in general, I meant.

(laughter)

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Um, oh gosh, probably... Probably I realized podfic was a thing when I started reading stuff on Archive of Our Own and I came across links where people had done podfics, and I'm like, oh, reading other people's stuff is a - is a thing.

LENA:

Right.

DEAREST-ANGEL:

So yeah, I had some contact with AJ... oh, gosh, I don't know... (laughter) somewhere between eight to ten years ago when I was trying to record myself reading the Crown of Thorns ‘verse, and I think I got the first two chapters recorded before I just got too sick to carry on and then never got back to it, so.

LENA:

And was that - I imagine that wasn't your first podfic, because that's - it's a huge - it’s a huge story to start with!

DEAREST-ANGEL:

I know! That was my first one!

LENA:

It was?

DEAREST-ANGEL:

I started - I started ambitious. It was my first-

LENA:

Oh, my gosh!

DEAREST-ANGEL:

and only - my first and only attempt at doing a podfic.

LENA:

Oh, wow!

DEAREST-ANGEL:

I have decided that I am not for voice acting. (laughter)

LENA:

Oh, gosh. Have you ever tried doing, like, anything similar, like maybe one K or something?

DEAREST-ANGEL:

No. No. No, no, it was go hard or go home for me (laughter) and I went - and I went home.

LENA:

Oh, God. Oh. So did you - did you consider auditioning for Crown of Thorns?

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Very briefly, but I knew that my workload would just- I wouldn't be able to give it the attention that it needed. Even - even committing to doing several art covers sometimes ended up - (laughter) ended up being very last minute, very, um, very - er - Yeah, I'm just - I'm not great with time management, let's just say. And (laughter) so committing to actually recording on a regular basis would have been too much. So I considered it and then went, no, I'm not going to manage to do that. (laughter)

LENA:

Fair, fair. So how did you find out about the - Crown of Thorns, the fic, back then?

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Through Tumblr, because when - Oh, gosh, I stopped - I stopped checking Tumblr after a few - a few years in the Good Omens fandom, because all the people that I was following stopped posting Good Omens stuff and - My feed started filling with all this other stuff, and I was just not interested in it, and then when the, um, when the TV series was announced, I - I decided, oh, I wonder if I poke my head back into my Tumblr account, what that looks like now. And because, of course, I was still following all the people who had previously been posting quite heavily in the Good Omens fandom when it was Book Omens, it was all gloriously full of Good Omens stuff again. So I stuck around and, um - and so it was through that - people reposting stuff about this podfic. And because I follow AJ on there, they posted about the podfic. So I jumped right on there.

LENA:

So you found out - Sorry, but you had read the fic before, right?

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Yes, yes, I tried podficcing it myself like, eight to ten years ago.

LENA:

Yeah -

DEAREST-ANGEL:

So I have read -

LENA:

(unintelligible) (laughter) - and had you knew - like, had you followed it until it finished, like, last year? Or did you fall off the wagon and then you went, oh, they’re making a podfic - like - a multivoice, I’m going to finish it?

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Yeah. So the second option, I had fallen off the wagon. I had stopped - I had stopped sort of keeping up with it. I was still subscribed to it. So I got the emails every time there was an update. And I was always very excited. And I still had all of those emails like, flagged? In my inbox. I just never got around to getting back to it until the podfic. Yeah.

LENA:

Right. Yeah, that happens to me too. Like some podfics are - some - sorry. Some fics that I follow that I'm like, oh, I'm going to read this. I'm so excited! When I get home, I'm going to read this! and then I don’t.

(laughter)

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Yeah!

LENA:

\- and then they pile up.

DEAREST-ANGEL:

They do pile up, yes. So I let this one pile up.

LENA:

So did you finish reading it once you realized the Pod’rama was happening or are you following with the chapters as they come out?

DEAREST-ANGEL:

I’m, um - I'm sort of still reading my way through it. Um - I haven't kept up with the chapters as they've been coming out. The - the art that I did for the chapter recently... oh, I don't even remember which number it was, I hadn't read that chapter, it's actually jumping ahead from where I'm at. So I was like, mm, yep, OK, that's spoilers!

(laughter)

LENA:

Spoilers for yourself. Is that the one that went up today, as of today as we were recording? Chapter fifty-nine? Dance At My Wedding?

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Um - no, I don't remember the chapter number at all. I would have to look it up on Tumblr to see. It’s... it's the one with the sort of rainbow starry sky and the beach and the scythe across the sky. Let’s hope that rings a bell, I don't know.

LENA:

Yeah, I think it’s, uh fifty-nine, Dance At My Wedding -

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Uh, Dance At My Wedding. Yeah, ok.

LENA:

Yeah, gotcha. That's the one that came out today. So we'll have a picture in the AO3 post for anyone who wants to see that.

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Woohoo!

(laughter)

LENA:

And so you found out about the Pod’rama through Tumblr.

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Yes.

LENA:

Um... When you decide that you wanted to participate and when did you decide you wanted to participate as an artist in particular?

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Oh, gosh, I don't know. It was - it was certainly while you were still doing auditions for all of the voice stuff, so I joined right at the - you know, nearish the start. And at that time, I sort of decided that the only thing I could, um - reliably contribute would be art, so I joined as a as an art contributor at that time.

LENA:

Right. And - if you don't mind me asking, were you bothered by the fact that you were like, ‘oh, I tried to do this before and now they're doing it again and there are so many people’? What were your feelings about the project?

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Oh, my God. Absolutely not bothered. I am so thrilled that people picked it up and that it's actually become a full cast podrama. And it's amazing. It is absolutely amazing. So I am - I am beyond thrilled and, um - and my - my poor little attempt can vanish into obscurity on the Internet. Thank you and goodbye.

(laughter)

LENA:

Well, I'm glad - I'm glad then that you have such positive feelings about it. So let's talk more about the work you do with us as an artist, then. When did you first start drawing?

DEAREST-ANGEL:

First start drawing in general?

LENA:

Yeah.

DEAREST-ANGEL:

when I was probably - before I even went to school?

LENA:

OK, yeah, I do get that answer a lot. I keep wondering if someday I will find someone who was like, I actually couldn't draw at all until I picked it up when I was like 15 or something.

(laughter)

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Yeah, no, I've always - I’ve always been a drawer, and always been very particular about my drawing. Like, if - I can remember, even as a - as a young child and watching other people, other children using - The way that they used felt-tipped pens and the way that they used paintbrushes just made me cringe.

LENA:

Ouch.

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Because they would, like, jam it into the paper and I would just be like, no, no, you... don’t, please, no. So - (laughter) So I guess part of this has always been sort of something that I am very particular about, and everything like that doesn't mean that my art is necessarily good - like I look at some of the stuff that I've created for this thing and I'm looking at that going, what is anatomy even? and why did I think that was a great piece of art to submit? And I wish I could go back and redo some of mine, but they are what they are and they're part of my journey.

LENA:

That's true. And you can always do like - next year, be like, ‘it's been a year. I'm redoing this piece of art that I did’.

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Aw. Yeah! (laughter)

LENA:

Yeah, you can redraw and be like, this is what a year in my life has turned my art into. (laughter)

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Yeah, that's right.

LENA:

So what do you - or how do you pick the chapters that you make cover art for?

DEAREST-ANGEL:

So at first, it was a lot easier because I'd read the chapters that were further up on the list and, um - and I picked ones that when I reread them - because I did have to reread to figure out exactly which chapter was which - that sparked something in me that went, oh, yes, I could draw this, that or the other thing. I remember very deliberately not picking the Ducks chapter. Because I was like, ah, people are going to really want that chapter. And I feel bad claiming it this early - because I was probably one of the first people in claiming chapters in that spreadsheet. And then when the person who was meant to do that chapter dropped out, I leapt. I went, yes, I'll do it! (laughter) So, yay, I got to draw ducks!

LENA:

Actually, I really like the ducks in this story, I - it's very silly. I think I've mentioned this before in some interview with - I think with, um - with Nuitarie. But some of the - I don't know if it was the two first or three first chapters that I picked for editing, had the Ducklings Theme on them at the end, which is so cute. And I really like it. (laughter) And -

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Yeah -

LENA:

\- like ever since I just sort of developed an irrational love for these ducks, these fictional ducks. It's so silly.

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Now, the ducks are so cute.

LENA:

Yeah.

DEAREST-ANGEL:

The girls.

(laughter)

LENA:

Yeah. So once you've picked the - the chapters that you want to create cover art for, what is your process like?

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Oh, um... I suppose I look for reference pictures, especially poses, because I suck at anatomy. Um... and then all of my cover art that I've done for this has been done on the iPad. So, um... And I think I used some different programs at the start, I don't remember what, but, um... Yeah, I just draw. I don't know - I don't know what to say about my process, I just - I draw and I am usually very quick about it. Like I don't like to - I don't come back to a drawing a lot. I draw quick and dirty.

(laughter)

LENA:

Fair, fair. So how long then would that usually only take you? Less than a day, I imagine, or...?

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Yeah, a few hours.

LENA:

Right. Right, right, right. So what do you like the most and the least about your work as an artist?

DEAREST-ANGEL:

I like the process of making it. What I like least is usually the outcome.

(laughter)

LENA:

Oh, well!

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Um, I don't know. Yeah, usually I - I - once I'm done, I see just all the flaws and I just - But I can't be bothered going back in and correcting them, so.

(laughter)

LENA:

Fair. Yeah. Well - well, let's move on to a couple of fan art questions. Do you have a favorite cover art picture that you've drawn? And a favorite cover art by other people?

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Ooh. OK. Um... Out of the ones I’ve drawn... I think I am most happy with the one where, um... oh, and I don’t remember which chapter it is, I think it was the wedding chapter, um... where Crowley is hugging Sophia. Comforting her. I think that - that was my favorite one. That's the one I hate least when I look at it again. Although I quite like the one with the - that I went a little bit more abstract with the plant mister and the snake and the - and the flowers and fruit all around. That one was all right.

LENA:

Ah, yes. Yeah. You're talking chapter thirty-four, uh - Not My Division, I think?

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Yeah.

LENA:

With the Crowley one and the plant mister... uh, let me see if I find it. Oh, that's chapter fifty - um, Garden Variety.

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Yeah. Um - with regards to other people's - oh, gosh, I don't - like, that's like picking a favorite child. There - there are - there are so many amazing artists who are contributing to this and every time somebody posts their art in the Work in Progress channel and then I see it come up on my Tumblr, I'm just like, wow! Because they've all got - they’re all so different.

LENA:

Yeah.

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Like when it comes to - ahh, gosh, I can't even pick like somebody whose style I like - like - Vivi does some really clean art, and - um, I don't even know how to say this one - qwanderer? does some really sort of like - details! Like super detailed and and intricate. And then, um - Grin?

LENA:

Yeah.

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Also such - such - like, I could just like - go through and name everybody and just go, oh, I just - I -

(laughter)

DEAREST-ANGEL:

\- and things about their art, I can't - I can't pick a favorite. Like - They're just all amazing.

(laughter)

I’m sorry, that's such a non answer, but -

LENA:

No. No, that's OK. I think I would have trouble as well. I don't know if I'll get - like if I - if I will have to answer this whenever I get an interview. But - (laughter) But yeah, it's such a difficult thing to pick because they are all so different, too.

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Yes, exactly. And every time somebody posts one, I'm like, oh, yes, that's my new favorite! And then the next one, go, oh, that’s my new fave. That’s - like, nah, nah, I - I’m so flighty with my favorites.

(laughter)

LENA:

Well, nothing wrong with that. So! Tell us. What is something you've learned during this project?

DEAREST-ANGEL:

I need to put stuff in my calendar better. (laughter) And I really need to work on my time management. Um. No. Things I've learned from this project is just how amazingly dedicated fans can be. Because... nobody's being paid to do this, as far as I know, and...

(laughter)

And - and it all sounds so professional. And it's all just organized and done so professionally, so I - the thing that I have learned is just how much talent and dedication is out there to take on a project of this size, and see it all the way through to the end. And then not only take on this project, but then think, what are other things we can do on top of this project, like these interviews and the events and things that happen throughout. We're like, this project isn't enough! Let's do more! And I'm just like, whoa, dude, you're just blowing my mind here. So that's what I've learned is how - how great the Good Omens fandom still is. (laughter)

LENA:

Yeah, I think - well, I don't know. I don't know if that's a thing for the Good Omens fandom in particular, although it's a great fandom, I think - I found a ton of people willing to collaborate and correct things in this fandom. But I think it's just - just is - just to show what people can do, even though they're not getting paid to do it, right? Like you find some people that go, ‘oh, well, people won't do anything if you're not paying them for it’. And it's - it's heartwarming to see that it's not true. That people can do things out of just love.

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Yes.

LENA:

For a piece of content or - or a group of people, just -

DEAREST-ANGEL:

That's the one.

LENA:

Yeah.

DEAREST-ANGEL:

That's the one. It's the love.

LENA:

Aw.

(Dearest-Angel laughs)

LENA:

Power of love!

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Making a little heart with my hands, you know.

(laughter)

LENA:

But it's true, I find it really - really heartwarming as well. I really like it.

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Well.

LENA:

Well, thank you very much for talking with us, Miriam. Tell us, where can people find you online?

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Um... probably mostly the dearest-angel.tumblr.com is, uh - Because if you're listening to this, you're probably mostly interested in the Good Omens stuff, and that's where that stuff lives, so, um - And if you go back far enough, you'll see stuff that I posted back in 2013 or whenever it was.

LENA:

(laughter) Fair, when it was only Book Omens.

DEAREST-ANGEL:

When it was only Book Omens, yep.

LENA:

Fair enough. Well, thank you very much.

DEAREST-ANGEL:

Thank you!

OUTRO MUSIC BEGINS

LENA:

So, this was all we had for tonight. Next time we'll be talking to Pandi, one of our artists. So keep your ears ready for that!

MUSIC CONTINUES


	21. Interview with Pandi

**Interview with Pandi** ****

We are halfway through the mammoth project that is Crown of Thorns Podrama, and we've got some extra content for you all!  
Along our way, we have managed to gather an amazing team of voice actors, editors, artists, musicians, and organizers.  
This is the start of a series of interviews with the team about their experience and involvement with the Crown of Thorns Podrama.  
We're continuing our interviews with Pandi, an American artist who fell down the rabbit hole shortly after seeing some really damn good art of Crowley.  
She read the book first and absolutely fell in love, while at the same time, remained blithely unaware that there was a tv show to be coming out.  
She has been pursuing art seriously for the past few years and hopes to grow and develop through the CoT Podorama, and is very excited to be here.

Love,  
The CoT Pod'rama Team

**Where to Find Pandi**  
[Tumblr](https://illusionarypandi.tumblr.com/) / [Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/pitayapandi/)

**Interview with Pandi Team**  
Hosted By - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Chapter Artist - [CompassRose](https://outlikethat.tumblr.com/)   
Transcripts By - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works)

Today's interview is a text-based one! Here's the transcript of our conversation :)

Transcript: 

LENA:

Pandi, it’s an honor to have you with us today! Tell us a bit about yourself before we start, where are you from, what do you do aside from fandom?

PANDI:

Sure! So I'm from the US, east coast, got my start in fandom mostly in the MCU, and I enjoy keeping plants, though I'm not terribly good at it.

LENA:

Ohh, like indoors plants, or do you have a garden? I've been keeping a succulent for about a year now, but other than that I don't have much space for plants, myself.

PANDI:

Indoor plants :) Same here! Got a handful of succulents, and a single awful cactus that without fail leaves spines in every single item of clothing I own.

LENA:

Omg how do the spines get there? XD Also, if you want to share pictures of your plants in the AO3 post for the interview, feel free to send them my way!

PANDI:

Sure!

The spines are because the cactus is more than double the size of the next plant I own, and still growing more spines.

LENA:

Oh! And do the spines just fall off and get to your clothing? I'll admit, I've never kept a cactus cause I'm afraid of the spines XDD

PANDI:

They post a somewhat major threat whenever I have to water them.

LENA:

Ahh gotcha, fair enough. That's a spiky, very tall boi! Cute

PANDI:

Thank you! I was not aware of both the danger and the potential for many more spines while procuring haha

LENA:

Ah, a bit like when you get a goldfish, and the pet store promises you they won't grow too much XDD I once had a pet goldfish that lived for like 7 years

PANDI:

Oh absolutely

LENA:

Yep XD So, take us back, how did you first land in fandom?

PANDI:

Oh gosh, my first experiences with major fandom stuff were Homestuck and the MCU? Homestuck was kind of the starter hit, and then I read pretty much all of the Toasterverse in a week… The rest kinda unraveled from there.

LENA:

I see! And had you been in fandom for long by the time you got into Good Omens?

PANDI:

Oh by then, a good three years or so? Probably more. Saw some excellent art with Hozier lyrics, got very curious, read the book the day after, and here I am.

LENA:

What are your memories of the fandom before the TV show?

PANDI:

It was much, much quieter. There was a lot more I guess… Variability? In how people saw things but also a lot less people. My initial foray into the fandom was maybe half a year before the show started? So seeing the transition was super jarring.

LENA:

In a good or in a bad way? Do you miss the book-only fandom?

PANDI:

It was both good and bad I suppose. I enjoyed the feel of the smaller community that GO had before, as most of my previous fandoms had been the sort of Big Tumblr Headline ones that dominate the site, and the fact that I could actually see the progression of fandom in the community. I did enjoy the show, but I'm way less active in the post-show fandom. So I think I do miss the book-only fandom? It was mainly just a different kind of community back then I guess.

LENA:

Yeah, I understand that. I'm also part of smaller fandoms where it's very easy to keep track of what the community is doing, and it really helps feel like people can see you and your work without it becoming a sea of content that's just impossible to digest fully XD So that's fair.

I imagine then that you found out about the TV show being produced through Tumblr?

PANDI:

Pretty much. I think I either saw the initial announcement on Tumblr or one of AJ's servers.

LENA:

AJ's servers?

PANDI:

They ran a big one back in the day, I think? Pretty sure they handed off ownership after a while.

LENA:

Oh, I see! So I take it you'd read CoT before finding out about the podrama project?

PANDI:

Yep. Not fully, but somewhat.

LENA:

Right, it is a pretty long fic xD And, do you remember how you found out about the podrama?

PANDI:

I believe it was on Tumblr. I had wanted to make GO art for a while then, and it gave me an incentive to do so.

LENA:

Had you known what podfic was, at the time?

PANDI:

Distantly? I'd seen links to them time to time, but I was never involved in any.

LENA:

That's fair XD The first time I heard about the toasterverse, as someone who's not in MCU fandom, was through podfic fandom, actually!

PANDI:

Oh wow! That's quite lovely.

LENA:

Yeah :3 So, did you consider auditioning for CoT as a VA at all, aside from being a part of the art team?

PANDI:

Oh gosh, perhaps for the briefest of seconds before the realization of VAing without any equipment or experience kicked in? Mostly though, I wanted to make nice art.

LENA:

Fair enough XD What character(s) would have interested you if you had auditioned?

PANDI:

Honestly? No idea. Probably Anathema.

LENA:

Anathema is cool, I had a brief thought to audition for her as well, though I didn't in the end XD

So, before we really get into talking about your art, do you have any other creative outlets (fannish or otherwise)?

PANDI:

Hm, I suppose Blaseball? It's more of a phenomenon that hijacked my entire brain than a creative outlet, but I've definitely made a lot more stuff for it than anything I've done in the past. The lack and malleability of lore for it is really the main draw, and it’s got a very artist/writer/creator centered community.

LENA:

I just looked it up, as I'm not familiar with it, it seems like it's an online baseball horror simulator? It sounds like a combination of words I never expected to read in that order XDD Sounds curious though.

PANDI:

In a sense, yes and also no. Blaseball in itself is just a numbers-based baseball simulator, with added horror elements sprinkled on. The real fun is the fan spaces. Everyone's got a favorite team for Blaseball (Go Sunbeams!), but each team has somewhere between 7-15 players. Multiply that by 20 teams, and now you have 200+ empty characters with funky sounding names that people like to make lore and art for. There's also an extraordinary amount of fan-developer interaction as well that affects the in-game situation as well.

LENA:

Ohh I see! That's cool then, fandom being involved in canon lore creation, so to speak?

PANDI:

Yep! Like somewhere around season 2-3 one of the star batters, Jessica Telephone was theorized to have a bat called the Dial Tone. She then had an upgrade in one of the weekly raffles/voting sessions during seasons 2-3 whereupon she "received" the Dial Tone in one of her item slots. In one of the later seasons, the fandom figured out a way to revive a previously incinerated player, Jaylen Hotdogfingers, which led to massive lore and in game mechanic consequences as well… Stuff like that.

LENA:

Oh wow, that's a really cool dynamic between the content creators and the fandom, I'm glad to see they're open to letting fandom move the story along then.

So let's talk a bit more about your art, then. When did you start drawing?

PANDI:

Oh gosh probably when I was around five? My parents wanted me to have things like "good posture" and hobbies or something, so I got art and piano lessons. The piano never really stuck but the art did.

LENA:

Oh, I got piano lessons and they never helped my posture at all xDDD so you got art classes then! And did you study art for very long, or did you eventually start to do it more on your own than for a class?

PANDI:

I did art for pretty much all of my childhood to adolescence. There was this moment, I guess, when I figured out How To Use The Internet, and I had this friend in middle school who was the same age as me who was light-years ahead… I'd grown up in suburbia y’know? So exposure to other people’s art and the outside world was super limited to what I could encounter in day to day life. And then I took a look at what other people were doing, and 12-year-old me went absolutely mad trying to figure out how to be like that. Keep in mind this was still the deep pits of DeviantArt and YouTube Homestuck.

LENA:

Right XDD

PANDI:

Yeah exactly! It wasn't phenomenal to any degree, but it was wild enough to both blow my tiny little brain and convince me that I should try to do it too.

LENA:

So you did.

PANDI:

Exactly. My early stuff was very Microsoft paint-arc tool Minecraft bobble head people but that's what got me into art I suppose. It was enough to convince me to actually start studying art seriously as well. I'd been semi-decent for my age with art lessons, right? But I didn't really get it in a sense. I'd copy what the teacher gave me, and I was pretty ok at it, but I didn't really know why I was doing it. Being in fandom changed the way I viewed art and the way I made it as well.

LENA:

Yeah, that makes sense. So you started to create your own art for fandom, did you participate in fandom events and such, or was it just for fun, to post online?

PANDI:

For fun online, really. I had this awful mentality that I needed to be "better" than the really good at art friend, so most of my stuff never really got posted, but I did throw some stuff online on a lark.

LENA:

Ah, the imposter syndrome is real... I remember I had a friend with whom I'd write fics, and I also felt a little like I had to write better than her. Thankfully, I think I grew out of that into a healthier version of wanting to better my craft, but yeah, I feel you!

So, you mentioned in your bio that recently you've been pursuing art. Does that mean you're living from it now, or have plans to do so?

PANDI:

I'm not living off my art, no. It’s more of a side thing as I go through education, but maybe that will change after college. I'm also not entirely sure how to go about the money side of things, but I'm working on it.

LENA:

Fair enough. Good luck with your art career then!

Let's talk more specifically about CoT - how did you pick the chapters you wanted to work on to make cover art?

PANDI:

Thank you! I read through the initial chapters and saw that there was one open (the moving in), and I pinch hit for the second cover I did. I chose them because they felt like they had scenes that I could get a nice mental image onto paper from. Specifically the Crowley moving in, I enjoyed the chapter and was able to sketch some preliminary ideas for it, which pretty much sealed the deal.

LENA:

What was your process for creating them?

PANDI:

I usually either start with a vague idea of how things will be arranged, sketch it out, and then refine it until I get something I like. Bodies and settings go first, with an undersketch before the full sketch. My process for the moving in Crowley was to sketch out the idea out on paper, put it into a digital software, and then go in from there. The theater one was fully digital from the start, which I would honestly change if I did it again.

LENA:

Do you generally favor one medium over the other, or do you mean for that piece in particular?

PANDI:

For that piece in particular, I feel like it could have done with a bit more planning out on paper. I enjoy both digital and traditional, but sometimes digital doesn't quite lend itself to things feeling solid?

LENA:

I see! Did the time constraints of it being a pinch-hit play into why you drew it digitally instead of on paper?

PANDI:

Not incredibly so, I don't think. I finished it within a day or so of starting so it wasn't terrible in terms of workload. The setting was the main issue, because I had planned the foreground and forgotten everything about the background.

LENA:

Ahh, gotcha. On that note, how long does it usually take you to create the cover art pieces?

PANDI:

The theater one took approximately three hours, and I think the Crowley one was somewhere around four? Not terrible in terms of time. I pared both of them down to be black and white to save time as well.

LENA:

Ahh, fair enough. So, what do you like the most and the least about your work as an artist?

PANDI:

Oh gosh, that’s a fun question. I struggle with digital painting a lot (partially why I chose to do everything for COT in black and white) and I want to have better anatomy and expressiveness as well. I like my current art style, but it honestly could do with a lot of development

LENA:

Gotcha! So, two final questions. First, do you have a favorite cover art image from the ones you've drawn, and one from the other artists?

PANDI:

Oh gosh everyone's art is really incredible so it’s difficult to choose. I definitely liked my first Crowley moving in illustration more, have absolutely no idea how I did the pants and likely never will be able to do so again.

LENA:

A few favorites from the others then, if you can't pick just the one? XD

PANDI:

Definitely chapter 16, I really liked the expressions and the little details, loved Chapter 32’s colors, Chapter 37 made me smile… There's absolutely a bunch more I'm missing, but those are some of the ones that stuck out.

LENA:

Of course! Everyone is super talented, and I know it's a tough decision to pick only a few xDD

PANDI:

Also props to every single person that did traditional illustrations because that takes guts.

LENA:

Oh for sure! Well then, last question for you! What's something you've learned during this project?

PANDI:

Oh lord, um… Spreadsheets are king, and I love them dearly, and that formal dress shoes are the devil.

LENA:

Formal dress shoes?

PANDI:

Men's dress shoes. Awful things really.

LENA:

Oh, _drawing_ them?

PANDI:

Yes.

LENA:

For a moment I thought you were talking about wearing them, I was very confused XDDD

Last thing, where can people find you? We have the links to your Instagram and Tumblr, is there anything else you'd like to promo?

PANDI:

Not really no. Just that I'm more active on the Instagram, and am taking commissions by DM.

LENA:

Gotcha. Well, thank you so much for your time!

PANDI:

:) Thanks for interviewing me!

LENA:

So, this was all we had for tonight. Next time we'll be talking to Khenq, one of our artists. So keep your ears ready for that!


	22. Interview with Khenq

**Interview with Khenq** ****

We are halfway through the mammoth project that is Crown of Thorns Podrama, and we've got some extra content for you all!  
Along our way, we have managed to gather an amazing team of voice actors, editors, artists, musicians, and organizers.  
This is the start of a series of interviews with the team about their experience and involvement with the Crown of Thorns Podrama.  
We're continuing our interviews with Khenq, who is a cover artist for the CoT project.  
They have been a Good Omens fan ever since they read the book, which has consequently led them on a journey through Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman's bibliographies and all things related.  
They’ve been drawing for nearly 10 years, though they have only recently joined the fandom, and are excited to participate in a project of this scale and meet new people.

Love,  
The CoT Pod'rama Team

**Where to Find Khenq**   
[Tumblr](https://khenqart.tumblr.com/)

**Interview with Khenq Team**  
Hosted By - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Chapter Artist - [CompassRose](https://outlikethat.tumblr.com/)   
Transcripts By - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works)

Today's interview is a text-based one! Here's the transcript of our conversation :)

Transcript: 

LENA:

Alright, let's get to it! :) Tell us a bit about yourself before we start, where are you from, what do you do aside from fandom?

KHENQ:

I'm from Europe, and have left my country exactly once before, since while I do enjoy visiting new places, I am not a fan of the journeying part itself. Currently I'm starting my first year of art university, so I suppose outside of fandom, I do a fair amount of homework. I also enjoy reading books, or listening to them.

LENA:

Oh, where did you visit that one time? And what are you studying at uni?

KHENQ:

Georgia, the not-American one. It's a very beautiful place, with amazing views! What I'm studying is essentially cinematography and animation, though I'm still waiting for the animation part to start.

LENA:

Oh, awesome! I've never been to Georgia, I'll admit XD I've been wanting to see more of Europe, but with how things are lately... Oh well, future plans I guess XD And that's so cool! Do you have any plans for what you'd like to work as after you graduate, or not yet?

KHENQ:

Yeah, travelling is kind of a pain this year XD. I haven't really any concrete idea, but I have considered becoming a concept artist, or, recently, a scriptwriter, seeing as scriptwriting is a class I enjoyed rather more than I thought I would.

LENA:

Concept artists are the artists that design the first idea of what something will look like, yeah? Or do I have the wrong name?

KHENQ:

That's the thing, yeah XD. It sounds like a fun thing to do.

LENA:

It does! Both that and screenwriting sound very creative, too :)

So, take us back a little, how did you first land in fandom?

KHENQ:

Well, depends on the definition I suppose. I've been making fan drawings since I was very, very young, and started reading fics online when I was around 10. However, I was around 14 when I started posting the things I make and actually interacting with other people online. I believe my first social media was DeviantArt.

LENA:

Oh, you were very young then! Do you remember what your first online fandom was?

KHENQ:

I believe it was Rise of the Guardians. I found it great, and still do, to be honest.

LENA:

Oh, cool! The movie, right? I haven't watched it, but I've heard good things about it!

KHENQ:

Yeah, the animation! I found out about the books it was based on from fandom, however I have yet to get around to reading them.

LENA:

Oh, I didn't know it was based on books! I'm glad to hear the animation is good though :) Does your love for Rise of the Guardians play into your career choice, by chance?

KHENQ:

It just might. I really enjoyed watching the videos where the artists talk about how the movie designs came to be, as well as the design work done on the Lord of the Rings movies.

LENA:

Nice! It's always fascinating to know how these things are made, though I'll say, I can't draw to save my life XDD

So moving onto Good Omens as a fandom, when did you first read the book, and when did you find out the TV show?

KHENQ:

Well, first I heard about the show, at the end of May 2019. I knew it was coming out in June, however, and also that book to screen transformations rarely work out well. So, I pretty much read the book and watched the show immediately after it came out. I was pleasantly surprised to find out that it was very well written as well.

LENA:

Oh, I see! And you joined the fandom right after, I imagine?

KHENQ:

Indeed. I think the amount of content I have reblogged and produced for GO at this point actually rivals the amounts of my DC phase XD

LENA:

Ah, what a mood XD I haven't had a DC phase, but my Tumblr followers are subject to my ever-changing hyper obsessions.

So, do you have other creative outlets aside from your art (fannish or otherwise)? You mentioned earlier you got into fanfiction when you were 10, and that you've started to get into screenwriting, too.

KHENQ:

I write, occasionally. I used to do fan fiction mostly, though now most of what I write can be summed up by "homework" or "parody summarizations". Sometimes I fall back on older hobbies I've had, like making bracelets or embroidery, which I'm not very good at but is certainly entertaining.

LENA:

Uni does take a lot of time, yeah. Embroidery is nice, I never quite learned how to do it properly though, much like crochet. I used to knit when I was younger though.

So, what about podfic? Do you remember when you found out about it?

KHENQ:

Knitting sounds like a useful skill, sadly I never got the hang of it though XD.

As a medium, probably around 2 years ago. This particular project, I believe I found out about at the end of 2019.

LENA:

It probably is! I never made anything too big, scarves mostly XD My mom knows how to make sweaters and such, which seems fun :D

Had you read the fic before you found the podrama?

KHENQ:

The fic, long before I found the podrama. If I remember correctly, I read the fic soon after finishing the book, so, early June.

LENA:

Oh, gotcha. So how did you find out about the podrama later on?

KHENQ:

Via regular browsing of AO3's feed and Tumblr XD. It seemed like a very fun and engaging project, and it was, and is.

LENA:

Ah, fair enough XD So if you saw it on AO3, you found it when it had already been launched?

KHENQ:

Oh yes, there were about 10 chapters, maybe, of it posted already.

LENA:

I see! Did you at any point consider auditioning as a VA, or did you want to contribute as an artist from the beginning?

KHENQ:

I did consider auditioning as a VA, since it sounds awesome honestly, but that was one thing I felt should stay just a thought. While I make it a personal quest to try as many new things as I can, I think voice acting would have actually broken my anxiety-meter. It did rather conclusively leave me with an artist position, which I did enjoy immensely XD

LENA:

I see! Have you considered making your own podfics since then? Maybe something smaller that wouldn't spark as much anxiety?

KHENQ:

Maybe at some point, but for the time being, I plan to stick to simpler things. 2020 certainly takes its toll on one's energy.

LENA:

For sure :D Don't worry, take care of yourself first! Let's talk more about your work as an artist then, starting with some backstory - when did you first start drawing?

KHENQ:

Ever since I could hold a pencil. Though, I started drawing more seriously when I was in 5th grade. I was at a new school, one that I didn't want to study in, and not particularly interested in talking with people. I got a lot of drawing practice in middle school XD.

LENA:

Ahh, school XD And have you always drawn fanart? I think you did mention earlier that you had been doing that even before joining online fandoms.

KHENQ:

Well, fandom and cats XD. I was always interested in drawing characters from my favourite shows and movies, and books, and also cats. They were and are my favourite animal, but when I was a kid it was a frankly unparalleled desire to draw them. The Kid vs Kat show was the best thing I had ever seen.

LENA:

XDD Cats are really cute! I hope to have a cat one day... Did you have one as a pet, at the time?

KHENQ:

Always good to see other cat fans.

At the time I didn't, but I have had one for 7, almost 8, years now. She's a nightmare but well. Her fur is so soft we're usually willing to forgive her for biting us every time she feels her food is older than 5 minutes XD.

LENA:

XDDD demanding!

KHENQ:

Unfailingly XDD

LENA:

XD Going back slightly to CoT and your art, how do you pick the chapters you make cover art for?

KHENQ:

I picked from my favourite chapters from those not yet taken, the ones I knew I could A) make a good cover for and B) meet the deadline on.

LENA:

And how do you know when you can make good cover art for something?

KHENQ:

Mostly based on whether the ideas I have for them are interesting, to be honest. Otherwise, I assume that someone else will definitely be able to do something better with them. It has worked so far XD.

LENA:

Fair enough! XD And what is your process for creating cover art?

KHENQ:

I come up with an extremely vague idea of what I want to do and make a very rough sketch of it. If it doesn't look right, I sketch something else. If it does, however, I make a cleaner sketch, and add some details. I start on the painting part and repeat the process until there's nothing I want to change or add.

LENA:

Aha, and how long would that usually take you?

KHENQ:

It varies. The first illustration I did, I needed 2 weeks to have a stable and clear concept and about 6 hours in total to finish it. The second took no time at all to figure out conceptually but the amount of details I had to keep track of and adjust for meant that quite a lot of time went into the drawing. Possibly about 2 weeks of opening and closing the file and editing. The third illustration I came up with, started and finished in 3 days.

LENA:

You did include a lot of details in the second one, I remember thinking that it looked sort of abstract XD How do you decide what objects you want to include in your illustrations? Your first had a character - Crowley -, but the rest have been only objects, right?

KHENQ:

Quite so.

The second chapter I had taken discussed the meaning of Crowley's name, and to a point, Crowley himself. As I had already drawn Crowley for the first one, I decided to be, as you said, more abstract about it. I drew objects that were specifically mentioned in relation to Crowley, or ones that were relevant to him throughout the series, like his sea-finds collection. The art dummy with the number one drawn on, for instance, was related to the line about James being one of Christ's 12 disciples, and if you count the chopsticks as one pair, there are 12 images on the picture in total.

As for the third, I just had so much fun with drawing objects for the second one I simply couldn't resist XD.

LENA:

oh wow XD That's quite a lot more in depth than I had realized! Sounds like you really enjoyed making more symbolic drawings than depicting scenes of the chapter, then.

KHENQ:

Oh, I do enjoy illustrating scenes themselves, and I had a lot of fun making the first cover, but I felt something a bit more vague was more appropriate for the last 2 chapters I took.

LENA:

Fair enough! So then, what do you like the most and the least about your work as an artist?

KHENQ:

I like it because usually it is very satisfying and relaxing, and I dislike it for the times it is not. In any case, it has become something that is an integral part of my life.

LENA:

Right XD So, for a couple of final questions - Do you have a favorite cover art picture, one yours and one by others?

KHENQ:

I can't really pick a favourite, all the covers are amazing, and I love looking at everything the other artists have chosen to draw XD.

LENA:

A few favorites perhaps? It's okay if you can't pick, though, I find it difficult myself XDD

KHENQ:

Hmm, I do really enjoy AJM's work, they're all super creative!

LENA:

Ah, yes! I especially like the fact he actually made the mosaic tiles in one of his works, that's quite a commitment!

What about your own covers? Was any of them particularly fun for you?

KHENQ:

All of them were fun to do, but I suppose I most enjoyed making the first one. Drawing Crowley is always wonderful, and I loved working with the colours that I did on this one.

LENA:

Ah, I remember when I first saw it, it quite surprised me because it's such a different style, I was really impressed! I like the sharp contrasts in the colors :)

KHENQ:

Thank you very much!

LENA:

Of course!

So, for a final question, what’s something you’ve learned during this project?

KHENQ:

I have learned that good organisation is key, group projects can be fun and that deadlines are a necessary evil XD. (I really don't think I would've ever stopped editing otherwise.)

LENA:

XDD My relationship with deadlines has gotten progressively better with time, as well... A necessary evil indeed!

KHENQ:

XD

LENA:

Well then, thank you for talking with us, Khenq! Tell us, where can people find you online?

KHENQ:

And thank you for this interview, Lena! I'm on tumblr/ko-fi/twitter under the name khenqart.

LENA:

Awesome! We'll have links to those in the AO3 post :)

That would be it! Thank you for taking the time to do this!

KHENQ:

Oh, no problem, it was a lot of fun! Thank you again for this interview and have a good evening!

LENA:

Thanks, you too!


	23. Interview with Lady Lier

**Interview with Lady Lier** ****

We are halfway through the mammoth project that is Crown of Thorns Podrama, and we've got some extra content for you all!  
Along our way, we have managed to gather an amazing team of voice actors, editors, artists, musicians, and organizers.  
This is the start of a series of interviews with the team about their experience and involvement with the Crown of Thorns Podrama.  
We're continuing our interviews with Lady Lier, who is a graphic designer and was saved by Fandom and Good Omens, then was put together by Irisbluefic's Crown of Thorns.  
She entered the project as an organizer and helped script some of the roles.  
She ended up with the role of Iván, whom she refers as: "The Basque Bastard" and has a lot of complex feelings towards. She also voices Jaime, who is a totally opposite character in juxtaposition to Iván. 

Love,  
The CoT Pod'rama Team

Listen - [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/1opuqGx7GkMC6sHSKFVNha?si=8Qix-vlOR2yBWMWr0ILPFA) / [Anchor](https://anchor.fm/crown-of-thorns-podrama/episodes/Interview-with-Lady-Lier-enoao8)  
Listen and Download - [Archive.org](https://archive.org/details/interview-with-lady-lier)

**Where to Find Lady Lier**   
[Tumblr](https://ladylier.tumblr.com/)

**Interview with Lady Lier Team**  
Hosted By - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Composer - [ Nuitarie](https://soundcloud.com/nuitarie) Chapter Artist - [CompassRose](https://outlikethat.tumblr.com/)  
Interview Editor - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Head Editor - [UnholyCrowley](https://archiveofourown.org/users/UnholyCrowley) Transcripts By - [AJfanfic](https://archiveofourown.org/users/ajfanfic)

Length - 52:51 minutes

Question Time Stamps

00:10 Introduction. Tell us a bit about yourself, where are you from, what do you do aside from fandom?  
01:43 How did you first land in fandom?  
07:05 Had you been in fandom before this?  
07:32 Were you more aware of fanart or fanfic?  
08:26 Did you write fic yourself?  
09:56 When did you find out podfic existed?  
11:28 When did you find out about the podrama?  
14:05 What was your first role?  
14:47 Could you tell us about your tasks as an organizer?  
18:51 What did you do for the first call of action as a graphic designer?  
22:44 So you started off more as an organizer or as a designer?  
25:40 What was your favourite and least favourite part of being an organizer?  
30:17 What is it like being Iván and Jaime?  
35:12 What is it like being Jaime?  
37:57 What was your favourite/least favourite part of being a VA?  
40:37 What is one thing about your characters that you identify with?  
42:32 Is there another character that you identify with more?  
44:56 What's something you've learned during this project?  
51:23 Where can people find you online?

Transcript: 

INTRO MUSIC

LENA:

Hello, everyone, and welcome to our cast and crew Q&A. My name is Lena and today I have for you an interview with Lady Lier. Lady Lier is a graphic designer and was saved by fandom and then was put together by IrisBleuFic’s Crown of Thorns. She entered the project as an organizer and helped script some of the roles. She ended up with the role of Ivan, whom she refers to as the Basque bastard, and has a lot of complex feelings towards. She is really happy to also voice Jaime because he is exactly the opposite of Ivan and his advices and feelings are very healing. She hopes that the story told now with this amazing cast will also fascinate and help heal more people. Lady Lier, it's an honor to have you with us today. Tell us a bit about yourself before we start. Where are you from and what do you do aside from fandom?

LADY LIER

Thank you so much. Well, I’m from Mexico, Mexico City, I am indeed a graphic designer and thankfully work on that area. I'm learning more about editing videos and that's actually my goal to do eventually.

LENA

Oh, wow. So more like television or more online video like YouTube and stuff like that?

LADY LIER

Eventually, what I really want to do, is special effects, and those can work now either for commercials, series and obviously movies, right.

LENA

Movies, yeah.

LADY LIER

Eventually, that’s the goal.

LENA

That's super cool. Yeah. Well, good luck with that.

LADY LIER

Thank you.

LENA

So take us back. How did you first land in fandom?

LADY LIER

Well, this is the story. Well, the real situation happened when real life, right, happens, and I was living with my boyfriend back then. We broke up after almost eight years, we'd been living together for five. So it was like, what am I going to do with my life? I have no idea what I want. And then I started listening to some music and fandom videos that pop up on YouTube and that show me a fandom that was called Roommates, which is basically what would happen if Erik, the phantom from Phantom of the Opera, Jack Sparrow from Pirates of the Caribbean, and Javert from Les Miserables were living in a complex together. And then yeah, it's weird. Then- So it was a webcomic on DeviantArt oh, the year- This was 2015. Yes. Well, the end of 2014. All of this that I'm telling you, it was from October to December and that was like all the time that I have lost on fandom for eight years, more or less. It was like, here, have them all together in one webcomic with all the characters of different fandoms interact like this is just like the crossovers of crossovers and then eventually a demon and an angel happened to be there also. And I was like, wow, they look very interesting. What are they about? Who is these people and where can I find more about it? And people were just like, oh yes, it's from Good Omens, it’s a very good book and you should read it. And it was like, OK, well, I'm going to try to find it because it was not that popular. And here in Mexico, we didn't have that many- Actually, I didn't find it in Spanish or published here. I had to order it from Amazon. And I arrived it- I wanted one of the- I had one of the Crowley editions of the paperback. I wanted an Aziraphale, I am hoping that will come eventually. I hope for that edition. But anyway, I read it and I was like, oh, okay, this is very funny. This is very interesting. I think I read it for like two weeks because again, I returned home actually, and I had no idea what was I going to be with my life. So I was like, OK, should I return to school, I'm looking for a job. Thankfully, I was- I had a place where to land. So it was like, OK, this is going to be difficult, but let me- lets reevaluate. And then Good Omens arrived. And I was like, OK, this is interesting. I like both of these persons. The rest of the cast was amazing. It's like, OK, good. And then obviously the fanfictions that started arriving and I was like, oh, this sounds interesting. Crown of Thorns, well, the idea of- well, obviously first I read the first universe that was the Crown of Thorns and I was like, okay, this is good. It has a good one, right- I don’t know. Nothing bad happened again. So it's like, oh let me read this. And I started reading it and I couldn't take it out of my head. The characters there- there are characters that were not- that were original too. I just really was like, OK, this is really interesting because they have a way of life that it's just for them. And even though sometimes after reading more fanfiction, you are like, OK, but I want more story. I want- I mean, not that this doesn't have a story, but this has a- I don't know. For me it had more of a feeling and it was like, OK, for me. I was like, OK, this is how it is to feel- well-

BUBBLE SOUND EFFECT

EDITING LENA

Hello everyone, editing Lena here. So I would like to apologize to everyone and especially Lady Lier, but during this interview, there seem to have been some technical errors with the bot in Discord that we used to record and there are pieces of the audio that are missing. So I will be popping every now and then to recap what she told me, as I remember it. But yeah, I'm so sorry about this. Please bear with me. In this part of the interview, Lady Lier was telling us about how the story sort of showed her, “yeah, this is how it's supposed to feel to just live, to exist.” So while reading the fic, she took the chance to go live with relatives at a town with a beach. And by the time she caught up with a story, it had helped her sort out her feelings and she was able to return to Mexico City and continue with her life.

BUBBLE SOUND EFFECT

LADY LIER

I think I know what and I returned to Mexico City and I was like, OK, I'm going to start working on me and to try to have that be, to just be.

LENA

Just be, just, exist. That’s really cool. So I- you said this was around 2014, 2015?

LADY LIER

Yeah.

LENA

And had you been in fandom before that, or was this your first entrance?

LADY LIER

My first entrance, actually. I mean, I was aware with Harry Potter fandom is like, oh, there is fan art, OK, cool. But that was it. I mean, literally I had no idea the amount of love that people can put into one one idea. Yes. But was the real one.

LENA

Right, right. And had you interacted with fandom more on the visual art part of things because you're a graphic designer, or was it more- were you more aware of fanfic and that kind of thing?

LADY LIER

Oh, again, with the Harry Potter stuff, I started with fanart and was like, oh, that's interesting, that it's cute, but that's it. And now with Good Omens, I think both, but first and foremost, with the writing, because I- again, when I returned, I was just like returning to the graphic design world because I was- I left school. So that moment I wasn’t- I didn’t feel like I could understand it. Now I understand a little more of the composition stuff and all of that, but I think I interacted first more with the reading side, with the writing.

LENA

Right. Did you write anything yourself or just reading?

LADY LIER

Yeah, no sometimes I do, I do write. My syntax is not as good as I would like so sometimes it's a little iffy but I do write. The fun thing here is when I write some I do have some of the fanfictions--I don’t know if that’s the plural--uploaded on Archive of Our Own. I think I do have my link over there, but anyway. But again, it's just like drabbles, and there's this holiday exchange that actually I think I- Yeah, no, on 2014, I didn't sign up because I started reading all of these in November and yeah, but after 2015, I mean every year over there writing. And yeah. And again, they're just sometimes drabbles, small ones, because, yeah, my syntaxes and grammar are not as good as we'd like but reading. Yes. I actually read them again- I don't know, I think again, for the past five years, reading fan fiction has been my reading go to, instead of books and stuff.

LENA

Right, yeah, yeah I know what you mean. I've done that, too.

LADY LIER

Yeah.

LENA

So what about podfic? When did you find out that podfic as a medium existed?

LADY LIER

Well, yeah, actually, actually, again, I think early 2015, when I started browsing again more of the fanfiction, I found some more of KerrAvon’s, I think it's pronounced, podfics.

LENA

Yeah.

LADY LIER

And it was amazing. I actually think I do have them some place downloaded because I really loved it, but it was just small, again, stories. But I was aware just then. I didn't follow them that much because I don't know if my phone was in the- perfect to listen or to download, but I do remember downloading them back in 2015.

LENA

Mm hmm. Was that KerrAvon the fandom or the person?

LADY LIER

No, the person, the person who have- yeah, they had yeah, they were like-.

LENA

Yeah, she plays Pippa.

LADY LIER

Yeah. And there was some actually Good Omens podfics up there.

LENA

Yeah. I'm sure, I can't remember off the top of my head, but yeah we had an interview with her so links should be in that chapter and also in any chapter that has Pippa as a character, if anyone wants to take a look, that should be there as well. But yeah. And so what did you find out that there was a podfic, a pod’rama being made about Crown of Thorns?

LADY LIER

Well, I think it was just like two or three days or maybe one or two weeks after Lit posted because Iris reblogged it and I don't know if they posted about it on Twitter and Tumblr, but but it was like, OK, I want to do this because I, again, for the graphic design artist-y stuff, I always like this kind of projects, where there is art, there is drama. And I always wanted to do something like this, actually, after hearing KerrAvon. Yeah, actually. Wow, flashbacks, war flashbacks. About two or three years later I read another fanfic by Iris for Pacific Rim Anthology and also completely recommended it. But- and I say I want to read this, I want to read it aloud. That way I can also show my love more for this, but I never continued because it is a lot of work to do alone. And again, I was just like, what's happening in my life? Maybe I have to do other things. But I always had in the back of my mind and it was like, OK, well, eventually I will. I think I did record like one or two paragraphs for my own, but that was it. When I heard about this, I was like, yeah, I want to do this. Maybe not to be the main character because I don't need this. And also I understand how I can sometimes not be completely, I don't know- in the mindset to do something this big, so it's like I can be there and be small characters or, I don’t know, to help maybe. And I immediately log in. I think they were like, I don't know. Nine, or fifteen people, less than 20, and it was like, oh, cool, I'm in the beginning of this and this is amazing. And yeah, yeah, the project started with all the scripting and all the timelines. And I was very fascinated by the way it was being organized, right. Because with fans, and in a project this big it's really difficult to be just as organized as we have been. And I think that's amazing.

LENA

So when you joined, what did you join us at first, graphic designer or organizer or voice actor or, what was your role at the very beginning?

LADY LIER

Yeah, well, I guess organizer, a voice actor. And yes, I added myself as an artist, though I have to say I actually just did the first call to action post and after that, people also take it from there. And I was glad because again, I was like, I don’t think I am that good still. Right now I feel better, but I have not done any other stuff. But I started as an organizer.

LENA

Right. So could you tell us a bit about what you did, what the tasks as an organizer were?

LADY LIER

Yeah, first of all, yeah, well, actually, starting the scripting of, uh, separating the voice actors so people can record them easily.

LENA

Yeah, go a little bit into that, because I don't think we've had any other person who has been doing the scripting, so yeah, I'm sure people would like to know what we're doing.

LADY LIER

Okay, perfect. Yes. Then let me return to that. As an organizer of my main role was actually to start the scripting of the different characters that were on the complete, I don’t know how to call it, book. But I guess we choose different colors for each of the characters and basically what we had to do was read it again, which was a delight, and just see who was talking when, when was the narrator. It was funny because sometimes people, I mean characters talk to themself or in their heads. And we had this question like, should the narrator tell it or should they say it with maybe a different echo or something? What else- for example, in my case it was fun because I had a two hour ride, my job to my home, and again the other way around, so it was like, and thankfully I was sitting, so I ride in the morning and I sat on the public transport and I took out my phone, thankfully this time it worked.

BUBBLE SOUND EFFECT

EDITING LENA

In this part of the interview later, Lady Lier was telling us about being an organizer and in particular about scripting. So just to summarize what she told us, the scripting began by grouping the chapters into chunks. So if the chapters were too long, they would be coded as they were. And if they were short, they would be coded in groups of one to five, depending on how long they were. And then word styles were created to differentiate the different characters and we gave each character a color. So once that was done, it was a matter of going through the script line by line and turning each line into the corresponding character style. This not only helps for easy identification of where a line is for voice actors, it's also supposed to help for editing when introducing the lines into the narrator track. The catch with this, as she's going to tell us now, is making sure that you are actually coding the right character in the right lines. And I'm just going to let her tell us her experience with that because the audio returned.

BUBBLE SOUND EFFECT

LADY LIER

When you're reading it, you understand that the person that was talking before is- there are two or three paragraphs after it says, oh, it was this person who spoke. And it's a little difficult to just completely understand all the chapter and say, OK, this is a person who's talking. This is a person who's talking. Now, all of this is narration. The fun thing that we also had, as you said, with the styles that they created. It was the, I don’t know, passing by characters, or characters that were just there for that chapter, and it was fun, just say, oh, this is extra, this is extra. This is not not a main character, but also fun to have it highlighted. So we can immerse completely on the drama.

LENA

Yeah. Yeah. So what about the graphic design that you did for the project, so you said you worked on the first call to action, but can you go into detail on that?

LADY LIER

Yet again, when we started the- we decided how many- well not how many- well yes, how many we wanted as voice actors. And we also decided that we wanted voice actors, artists, editors, and musicians, actually. We had some idea that eventually we will have- I think everybody is so happy with Moony's work. So that's amazing. And this was the call to action was basically to post, to have people join and to know that this drama was going to exist and that we started to- Yeah, actually, it was the call to action to audition for the voice, for the voice, for the characters. First, I think we just posted on Tumblr and Twitter because those were the two main roads and yeah, eventually people started joining. It was fun watching the discord grow because we have all the roles and then people arrive. Most of the people wanted to be voice actors. But again, I think we were really, how do you say it, oh, I don't know the word. What you do when you foresee stuff?

LENA

Forseeing?

LADY LIER

We were really forseeing this situation that people would join and then maybe just drop, and I think it was good for us to understand that that's, I think, that what's going to happen. But if we could at least put it in the 10 percent of people, that would be a good- that would be okay. And I think as an organizers, we were able to just work around that idea. Right. And just to call and to get to call people that were actually going to be committed to do this, because from the very beginning, we knew that it was going to be for a year or a little more. And it's amazing right now that- because I think it has already been a year since we started organizing. So it's amazing that there are a lot of the people that started knew that it was a commitment and as an organizer wanted to call to people to to be as committed. Right, cause like, we had that on them, on the call to action and on all the posts that we had it, that this was a big thing. And if you wanted to be there, you needed to be committed, to want to. I mean, you can stay in and it would be OK to just, for example, like me, was like, OK, I'm going to organize, I'm going to script. But as- in general, I wasn't able to do more. But I think it was like we knew that there was a possibility and we knew that people were going to start strong and then maybe be a little outside later. But we knew that. And we wanted to show that from the very beginning, from the get go.

LENA

Right, yeah. So you participated on this call mostly as an organizer then, or were you more of a graphic designer?

LADY LIER

No, I was more of an organizer. And again, just like the first touchers of the header and all of that, it was just like maybe I don't know for for the first two months, just to have a, was more like to have a placeholder and then the rest of the team just took it over and made it along with all their things and all of it because yeah, maybe it- maybe I can remember this now again, it's been a year and I think this year has been very exhausting for all of us. So yeah, you're right. When we started working with the graphic design, we’d a feeling with what we wanted to show, we didn’t know where are our images or design who was going to go. And we started a rain of ideas, a brainstorm, a brainstorm of motifs and things we knew and I think the funny thing also, and I just noticed it, is that because I've read the fic completely and I was yes, completely had it in my veins, I was able to help with a shell motif, with obviously the beach. Obviously, the wings are the same in this universe, and I think that's part of the help that we had on the graphic design part and that informed the rest of the team. After I left it, we were having a discussion. And I think that's part of the thing that made this drama as cosy as it is because, I mean, the fic itself, it's a hug, that's the thing that I would call it, a fic. It's a hug. And this one, this drama has also been this kind of hug like cause, you know, there’s angsty stuff, there's so much angst, but it goes it goes to the point that, OK, there's angst, but you can feel it again, like hugging you. And I think, again, although I wasn't the one who did it, but I think the brainstorm that we had then, talking about, obviously the roses, the shells, and it was one of the things that informed the art, all of our team for the art.

LENA

Right, right, right, fair enough. So what would you say was your favorite part of being an organizer and helping with the graphic design? And what would you say was the least favorite part?

LADY LIER

Do you mean if it was the best part or?

LENA

No, like what was your most and least favorite part of doing all of this work?

LADY LIER

Oh, OK. Oh, well, yes, one of them, my favorite part was indeed that- the brainstorm to start organizing the scripting. Oh, well, yes, the least part was the casting, because, again, I had been scripting for a while. Then the team chose that I could also be a casting director. And it was really difficult because I have this situation where I heard them all and was like, yes, let’s do it, yes, let’s do it. And to choose and have all these, I don't if we call it, to choose some voices for some characters was difficult. Again, it was interesting and fun, but I think it was the least favorite because of all the anxiety of, oh, I want everybody to be this person. But I understand that we want some quality. And that was most of, the least part. Another thing that I didn't, not that I don't enjoyed it, but like, I was like, oh, I think it should be better. It was, again, my voice, because sometimes I go really low. And when I send my voice or my audio tracks, it was like, oh, I think I should have talked a little louder compared to the other people, and I go, oh damn it. But it's all a learning experience.

LENA

Yeah. I mean especially if you haven't recorded podfic of it before. I'm sure that it's difficult, not difficult, but it's like it's not a place where you can compare yourself to someone who's been recording for five years, right?

LADY LIER

Yeah, exactly. And it's fun because I like it again, I think this- I know I have some classes where we actually record and edit. Yeah. And I really like it. I always liked it, but it was weird. I don't know, maybe it was because I was a little shy in my house, like I don't want everybody to hear me. Even though most of the times I was like, OK, I'm going to record, go away.

LENA

Oh yeah, sure, yeah. I don't like it when my family is at home, when I'm recording either. Like, for example, if I'm doing an interview, it's fine because it's you know, it's like you're talking to someone on the phone or something like that. So I just tell them, hey, don't make a lot of noise. So the mic doesn’t pick it up. But if I'm going to record, like, something dramatic or like a real like a full podfic, like, just just I'm going to wait until you are not home.

LADY LIER

Yeah. You're not there.

LENA

Yeah, exactly. But yeah, I get that. And I also imagine that, yes, the casting must have been incredibly stressful. I mean, I'm sure you had a lot of submissions for similar characters and you have to sort of reorganise it all so everyone had a character, after everything was done.

LADY LIER

Again, it was amazing to have the organization made correctly because we have all this system of rating and that helps because mathematically it adds up and you're like, OK, most of the people think this. And I think that's a very good thing to remove some of the stress. But still, again, at the end, it was like, OK, choose this person or this person. And it's more personal. And it was like, ah, no, I want everybody! I want to have two versions!

LENA

Yeah. Can you imagine the amount of work? You know, to have two versions, it’s taken a year just to make one!

LADY LIER

Yeah, we have an excuse.

LENA

Oh my God. I think we are all going to need some rest after this year. It’s been intense, especially with what's going on around the world. But still. Yeah, so to go a bit more into the side of voice acting that you did after all the organizing, what is it like being Ivan and then Jaime?

LADY LIER

It was amazing. I mean, again, I wasn't too- I was like, OK, give me the voice that you want. And I know that I have a- Well, obviously, I'm not even English or from the United States, so I probably have some accent, maybe not as strong as another person, but I was like, OK, given the one that you want, I know I don't have that much time. And again, I was shy like, I'm not going to record a big character right, no. It was like, OK, well, have Ivan here and it's like, oh, Ivan. I hate him. I love doing him but I hate him. I know what happens with him and yeah it's like, OK, because again, and this correlates, and it's fun because of the story, because my boyfriend at the time, it's not like he's the worst, but the ending of my relationship there was so, so, so close to Mandy's and Ivan and it was like oh OK.

LENA

Oh no, I’m sorry to hear that.

LADY LIER

Yeah. I mean at the moment it was like damn you too, and that's why I call him the Basque bastard because like, go away. Nobody needs you. Why are you still here for the last chapters. Go! And yeah it not the same but the feeling that Mandy had like was, like oh what, when did this happen. I don't know, when did this happen. And to have to voice him was like, oh OK, well this is some kind of destiny stuff. And I was like OK. And it was really, really fun. I left one of those comments on the fic like, oh no, I hate him. It's just I am so glad when he went away. I was like, oh, I'm so glad that the Basque bastard went away. And then Iris responded, like, oh, that's a perfect name for him. Yeah. Um, but no, there was-

I'm sorry?

LENA

No. Yeah I agree.

LADY LIER

Yeah. And it was really fun because of the parallels, right, and it was like, OK, of all the people, of all the characters, you gave me this. And then a fun thing, interesting is that obviously, again, he's Basque and I'm Mexican, so I have no idea what to do. Well, those are two to other fun facts. One is that he's Basque and I’m Mexican and I obviously don't know Basque. So learning to see how that how that language sounds, because Ivan has a lot of words in Basque. It was fun. It was interesting. And I learned stuff. And also my last name comes from the Basque area of Spain. So it was like, oh, that connects. Yes. And it's fun. I don't know when it diverted, but originally the word is from Basque.

LENA

Oh cool.

LADY LIER

Yeah.

LENA

Yeah. Ah. For me it was also very sort of a coincidence because I've never been- so I live in Spain near the Basque- what is called the Basque Country. Even though it’s not, like, legally, a country, but it- let’s not raise any problems here. So I was starting with- at the time that I joined the pod’rama, I was starting my masters and it was a joint program between my university in my city and university in the Basque country. And so I had a lot of classmates and a lot of friends from the Basque country. So I was like, oh, there's a Basque character in this story. Oh, oh, I don’t like him. It was a little awkward at the time, when I was- I just found it really funny.

LADY LIER

Yeah. Yeah. Because, like, you were friends with people that there.

LENA

Like, and I was going there to take classes in that place and I was listening to that language often and I thought it was very interesting that this character is just here. And it's such a coincidence, too, because it's such a niche place. And so it's very interesting to find it represented in a fanfic, of all things.

LADY LIER

Yeah. And as a big character, main character.

LENA

Yeah. Well, I don't know if he was main, but a big, important at least. Yeah.

LADY LIER

Yeah. Exactly, important.

LENA

Yeah. I'm sorry. I don’t recall are we calling Jaime or Jaime (pronounced first with a _j_ sound, then with an _h_ sound).

LADY LIER

I don't know. In my head I call him Jaime (with an _h_ sound), because technically he is from Brazil, but I don't know if that's the pronunciation again in Portuguese, maybe.

LENA

I don't know. And I don't remember which one we're using in the pod’rama. But, well, Jaime, Jaime, this guy.

LADY LIER

I think we actually, in the- I have heard.

LENA

So what is it like being him?

LADY LIER

Yeah, it was fun. Guess because I was almost finished with- [here the dialogue becomes muddled]

BUBBLE SOUND EFFECT

EDITING LENA

In this part of the interview, Lady Lier was telling us about how she picked up Jaime as a pinch hit. And it was interesting because it was not only her second character, but it was her second character with another different language, in this case Portuguese. And at first she didn't think much of it but then, as she started reading his lines, she realized that Jaime is actually the character that eventually gets to come comfort Mandy after her breakup with Ivan and she really enjoyed voicing that part as it reminded her of her own relationship and the things she would have wanted to hear at the time. So she found it very comforting. After that, we started talking about the different languages of her characters and she was talking about Portuguese, and the similarities and differences with Spanish, and how Basque is completely different. And we started talking about how Basque is not similar to Spanish whatsoever and how the only words that are actually similar are those that are very new. So they have been borrowed from Spanish into Basque and sort of adapted, but not so much the other way around. And the audio comes back after this. So I'll just let you hear the actual words.

BUBBLE SOUND EFFECT

LENA

Basque is not similar to anything. And I've heard some people say that it has nothing to do with Spanish nor with the French. And the only words that are-

LADY LIER

Maybe the Spanish borrowed from Basque. That's like my last name, for example.

LENA

I highly doubt it because the word in Spanish has Latin roots and then it's very similar in Basque.

LADY LIER

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You’re right, you’re right.

LENA

But it could be, maybe we have words from there. The problem is it's just so different that if we had a word in Spanish that was coming from Basque, we would all know.

LADY LIER

Yeah, ok. You're right, you’re right.

LENA

So yeah. But yeah. So what, what would you say that you like the most and the least about being a voice actress?

LADY LIER

Well, the best thing is to try to get in their head, in their character and now because I have two, I can make the distinction of knowing that I did that to both. Like, I was like, OK, I'm going to be Ivan. I’m the Basque bastard. And ‘I’m not a good person, but I think I'm a good person’ and I put that in my mind. And then when I had Jaime, and they were like would you prefer to read it? It's like, oh, OK, I'm here watching the stars and thinking and being me. And if that's one of the things that I realized and I really like it, like you have to be on the mindset of the character. And it's weird because we- I've seen it in all of these behind the scenes of movies and series and the actors. And it's like, oh yeah, of course you have to do that. But being able to do it and to just say, oh, I'm going to have to change my mindset. Right. And again, as a female, I was like, OK, I have to change a little my voice, but I don't have to change that much and just try to do the difference between Ivan and Jaime. I remember one of the- I don't know if it was Ivan or Jaime, but I started reading and it was like, no wait this is- because I didn't record them altogether, especially Ivan. I recorded him between two or three months. And when I returned to him, it was like, wait, this is not his voice. What I'm talking about again. That's right. And then I changed my tone. And then I was able to be more more him. But yes, I think that's one of the best things about the voice acting, because it's fun and it really informs you about the character and the listening. Again, I think it was the volume of the voice like, oh, I should have talked louder. But I think in the overall situation with the little edits that the team did ask us to do and obviously the work from the editors, it helps. And it has been even- though I say, oh, maybe I should have done it better, I think I think it worked, but that would be the most.

LENA

Right. Fair enough. So what is one thing about your characters that you do identify with? Because of course, again, Ivan is sort of- it's not an antagonist to the main plot, but it's definitely not one of the best characters. But is there anything you identify with about him?

LADY LIER

Well. I think it's more of the reflection of Mandy that, I don't know, because he and I have a very complicated relationship because I don't know if I can identify more with him as I identify with his relationship, through Mandy and through the cast. But, yeah, no, I don't think I identify with him in any way, but for his relationship, yeah, maybe I don't know that sometimes people but that's like in general, I think that what they are doing, it's good or it's OK and that they have the reason and the rest of the world is wrong. But that's more like in general, right or correct. And with Jaime, I think, I don’t know, I’ll call it peace. But in this case, I do identify with the situation that he has a past that he worked towards a better present. It's not that his past was bad, but it was just like he's using his present to again, to just live and to try to live happy with what he has and with what he can give, and I think that's what I can identify with Jaime.

LENA

Mm hmm. And is there maybe a different character that you identify with more since clearly Ivan is not the one for you?

LADY LIER

Mm. Well, I don't know if one character. Because no, I think not just for the fact that, again, I feel like that the whole story, it's a hug. So I think- it's weird because I think of this story as an entity. So it's like every part of these characters pull together. And that's why I feel the story, because it has so many facets and so many different ideas of the characters that I think of it as a whole. Again, Mandy would be the one that I identified with but again, there are some characteristics of these, especially with an intensity of her. I don't know if the, call it anger, of her. Yeah, well, anger that I don't identify because in that case, I'm more like, I don't know. Oh, I don’t know, more calm. I was going to say Uriel, but no. Yeah. Yeah, I think I think it's more taking it as parts of each of the characters, and I think that's what draws me to the story because like, again, Good Omen and Good Omens fandom with that stuff, like Good Omens but sometimes it's just ineffable husbands and it's like, yeah, that that's cool. But the fun part about this story is that it's not just about them, it is about them because like, but they- it's about them in a cottage and living day to day. But again, it's also about the rest of the cast live around them and how the relationships works. And they think that that's the interesting thing for me, that the relationships between the characters is what makes it for me.

LENA

Mm hmm. Yeah, awesome. Well, for a final question, what's something you've learned during this project?

LADY LIER

Something that I've learned, hmm, let me see. One of the things that I've learned is that fandom can be a real life organization or situation, that the things that you do in your and open quotes “adult life” end quote. It's also able to do in fandom, as in we or at least I, don’t need to be either ashamed or belittled because. I don't know if it's because I've been starting- I've been arriving to the circles that don't see fandom as a bad thing, but I started to learn that it's OK to go to the people that don't understand it and say, hey, fandom can be a very organized place and a place where you can work as in group work. Yeah, yeah. I think that's one of the main things of the change for me, because, like, I wanted to work in the organization of this drama and it was like, oh, but it's weird because it's fandom. Right. And then right now I think it's like, oh, I am going to do an interview about the behind the scenes of our drama. And it's like, yeah, okay, good. That's one of the things that I learned and that I think it's fun that happened this year. But it's one of the things and another one is that I really, really liked working on the behind the scenes of the organization because working on the front as a voice actor as a main character is probably also good, but working on the back and seeing all the different- I really like it and I want to work in another program or in another drama, in another work like this. Yeah, I learned that I like organization. Yeah.

LENA

Completely agree, totally. Similar to me in that sense, because especially because I still live with my family and they know that I've been fannish for a very long time, but sometimes they take it- they have trouble thinking that other people take it as seriously as I do. So having a full year just dedicated to this one thing and having a team that big and being able to tell them how it was going and how many people were working with us and everything that we were doing to sort of helped the people around me realize that the things that some of us do for fandom and sort of for the love of a concept are not just trivial, it's not just, oh, we're losing time on the Internet.

LADY LIER

And again, I think, as you say, and making the reflection with a year like this year has been weird and obviously a lot of people have turned their faces to our arts, to entertainment and really, this is entertainment. And the fun thing about fandom and that it's just like we are working on maybe something that have right now a copyright, in parenthesis, but you have seen, I mean, the rest of the people have seen all the Shakespeare adaptations, or the Jules Verne adaptations. And that's just fan fiction. It’s just produced it with money. This one is free and, free in parentheses. But this is made first with the love of “we want to share this” and then with the idea that we do have to put money or stuff like that. But this is the interesting thing. And as you say, people and if it's because of the year, because we started on more circles but have started to understand that it's not just for- them to be aware of the reality.

LENA

Yeah, exactly, it's not just escapism. We were- I think it came up with someone else, maybe it was Moony that we were talking about how people they always want art to be free and just they don't want to pay for it or they don't take it seriously. They think it's, oh, you're just drawing again or you're just writing your little stories again. But then when things are horrible in the real world like they were and they still are for a lot of people during this year, everyone wants to retreat to fiction and art, and they all want it to exist. And I know that a lot of people have been- I don't know if bitter is the word, but everyone's like, yeah, I'm glad that you want this. But this is like, how can you realize this just now? Right. How could you not have noticed this, when we were telling you this last year? It's been an interesting year for fandom.

LADY LIER

Mm hmm. Yeah, yeah, definitely. And when we return to our “real life”, because it's not going to be the same again. Yeah, it's going to be a draw to a lot of people who just learned it. And I hope that as in this fandom with the TV, I hope that the rest of the fandom people can open their arms and say, OK, well, you reflect now. Come, let me show you the years and years of fandom work that exists.

LENA

Yeah, fair enough. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for talking with us Lady Lier. Tell us, where can people find you online?

LADY LIER

Well, basically, every place where you put my user name, thankfully, it's me, so you can, but my main fandom place is Tumblr, so you can go to ladylier.tumblr.com. And yeah, I also have my, I don't know how to say it, Archive of Our Own, is that the correct way?

LENA

Yeah.

LADY LIER

Ao3. That's with another handle but also Lady Lier can be found there. My tumblr would be the best place to, that's where my obsessions are.

LADY LIER

Thank you so much.

LENA

Thank you very much.

LENA

All right. So this was all we had for today. Next time we'll be talking to Tio-Trile, one of our artists, so keep your ears ready for that.

OUTRO MUSIC


	24. Interview with Tio-trile

**Interview with Tio-trile** ****

We are halfway through the mammoth project that is Crown of Thorns Podrama, and we've got some extra content for you all!  
Along our way, we have managed to gather an amazing team of voice actors, editors, artists, musicians, and organizers.  
This is the start of a series of interviews with the team about their experience and involvement with the Crown of Thorns Podrama.  
We're continuing our interviews with Tio-trile, who is a cover artist for the CoT project, contributing cover illustrations for Chapter 56 and 57.  
She has been in the Good Omens fandom since 2012 after she read the book that summer, posting fanart on deviantart.com and later migrating to Tumblr through the help of some lovely people in the fandom.  
She enjoyed the smaller, friendly and tight Book Omens fandom for years, and in 2019 she also enjoyed the show and the fandom that came with it, and she was glad that more people could discover Good Omens through it.  
Outside of fandom, she works as a storyboard artist for an animation company in Los Angeles.

Love,  
The CoT Pod'rama Team

Listen - [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/1ddA1M8LdjuUTx1YdQihiT?si=VbBCcjggSFWaLhEICBowAw) / [Anchor](https://anchor.fm/crown-of-thorns-podrama/episodes/Interview-with-Tio-trile-eo1nul)  
Listen and Download - [Archive.org](https://archive.org/details/interview-with-tio-trile)

**Where to Find Tio-trile**  
[Tumblr](https://tio-trile.tumblr.com/)

**Interview with Tio-trile Team**  
Hosted By - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Composer - [ Nuitarie](https://soundcloud.com/nuitarie) Chapter Artist - [CompassRose](https://outlikethat.tumblr.com/)  
Interview Editor - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Head Editor - [UnholyCrowley](https://archiveofourown.org/users/UnholyCrowley) Transcripts By - [AJfanfic](https://archiveofourown.org/users/ajfanfic)

Length - 34:12 minutes

Question Time Stamps

00:10 Introduction: Tell us a bit about yourself, where are you from, what do you do aside from fandom?  
01:58 When did you first land in fandom?  
06:06 Do you still consume media in Chinese?  
10:48 Were you in the Good Omens fandom back in 2012?  
13:16 Do you have other creative outlets aside from your art?  
14:20 When did you find out about CoT the fic?  
15:19 When did you find out about the podrama?  
16:06 Did you already know what podfic was?  
16:42 Have you ever considered doing your own?  
16:58 When did you first start drawing?  
17:59 Question from tenner54 (Tumblr): Do you work in traditional or digital medium, or both? Did you go to school or are you self-taught? If you went to school, what school did you attend?  
21:13 What other subjects did you pick that weren't art-related?  
23:22 Do you have a favourite dinosaur?  
24:05 What instruments do you play?  
25:00 How do you pick the chapters that you make cover art for?  
26:39 What's your process like for creating cover art?  
28:10 How long would that usually take you?  
28:41 What do you like the most and the least about your work as an artist?  
30:08 Do you have a favourite cover art picture that you've drawn for the projects, and one by others?  
31:52 What is something that you've learned during this project?  
33:17 Where can people find you online?

Transcript: 

INTRO MUSIC

LENA

Hello, everyone, and welcome to our cast and crew Q&A.

My name is Lena, and today I have for you an interview with Tio-trile. Tio-trile is a cover artist for the Crown of Thorns project, contributing cover illustrations for chapter 56 and 57. She has been in the Good Omens fandom since 2012 after she read the book that summer, posting fanart on DeviantArt.com and later migrating to Tumblr through the help of some lovely people in the fandom. She enjoyed the smaller, friendly and tight book fan fandom for years, and in 2019 she also enjoyed the show and the fandom that came with it. And she was glad that more people could discover Good Omens through it. Outside of fandom, she works as a storyboard artist for an animation company in Los Angeles. Hey, it's an honor to have you with us Tio-trile. Tell us a bit about yourself before we start in, where you're from and what do you do aside from fandom, if you want to expand on what I just read.

TIO-TRILE

Hi. I have to say, you have a great voice.

LENA

Thanks.

TIO-TRILE

Yeah, my real name is Jiedi and I work in Los Angeles, California, here. And I just started working for DreamWorks this year, actually.

LENA

Wow.

TIO-TRILE

And before that, I worked for the company that made Robot Chicken, for the stop motion company. And that's really fun too.

LENA

Awesome.

TIO-TRILE

And that's been- I've been a storyboard artist for those companies since 2016, which is when I graduated. And yeah, so, gosh, Good Omens, my Good Omens fandom life is longer than my work life.

LENA

Happens, happens. When did you first land in fandom in general then?

TIO-TRILE

I think in college, mostly like before, in middle school, I sometimes do fanart, but I didn't really get the idea of fandom and also like I didn't use the Internet as much. I may post some things on, like smaller social media or like Chinese social media at the time for Sherlock Holmes, the novel. But, like, I didn't even realize there was a huge community out there that posts fanfic, fanart, or like, even do all these other things like edits and podfics. Everything and all that, and people talk to each other, as in like forums or like websites that holds people together.

LENA

Yeah.

TIO-TRILE

And yeah. So maybe sophomore year, or freshman year of college, I met my roommate, who's pretty big in fandom. She- I think she's really big in One Piece at the time. And yeah, she taught me a lot of- not only art skills, because she's an amazing artist, so she taught me a lot of like, art techniques or digital painting techniques, to be precise, because I'm more used to traditional painting or traditional drawing sketches before that. And in school, they also don't teach you a lot of digital painting or like how to use programs. So she taught me a lot of Photoshop techniques or PaintToolSAI techniques. And also, like what type of- OK, also, I was using DeviantArt at the time, so, yeah, a lot of- my account is still there. I haven't deleted it. So if you want to check it out, everyone may. I like to keep my history open for everyone to see.

LENA

Yeah.

TIO-TRILE

And she suggested that I start using Tumblr and she's like, well, the person who I feel like I would be good for Tumblr, just the overall vibe and, yeah, and after that, after I got on Tumblr, another user, I think her user name at the time was a **KataraArt**. She helped me move from DeviantArt to Tumblr, especially in the Good Omens fandom. She had, like, a huge fandom welcome pack and everything.

LENA

Wow.

TIO-TRILE

Yeah, it was really warm. And I just settled in in Tumblr. And because Tumblr has such a- kind of like a blog type of posting.

LENA

Yeah.

TIO-TRILE

I feel better posting sketchier art, if that makes sense. Instead of DeviantArt, where it's like a gallery and you feel like you have to be really polished and finished work for all of your pieces. So yeah, Tumblr later became more just- the most comfortable platform for me to be on, even until now.

LENA

Uh huh. And you said you used to read and consume media in Chinese. So are you originally from China?

TIO-TRILE

Yeah. Sorry, I forgot to mention I'm from China. Sichuan, Chengdu. And I came to Los Angeles for school, for college, in 2011, I think. Yeah. And I have my citizenship now because of my mom, my parents and I had to go through the citizenship test and all that, and I'm a legal immigrant.

LENA

Ok, all right. Awesome. And do you still consume media in Chinese or are you mostly consuming in English now?

TIO-TRILE

I do. I was just talking to someone the other day, actually, about if- I would read books in English, if their original language is English, but if that media, if that language has been translated from another language, that is neither Chinese nor English, I would read it in Chinese because, like, after all, Chinese is my first language, and if it's already been translated once, then I would rather read it in Chinese. Like right now I'm reading the Witcher books in Chinese, actually, because they were originally in Polish and the translator actually did a phenomenal job translating that. It’s like completely- it feels completely natural, surprisingly.

LENA

Oh, that's really nice, because I heard that- I've been meaning to read the Witcher books too actually, and I heard the translation to English of the first book is not the best, so I don't know what I'm going to do.

TIO-TRILE

Yeah, that's what I heard, too. And everyone had good reviews for the Chinese versions. Also, they have like hands down, they have the best covers out of all the versions. I should make a post sometime.

LENA

I’ll look it up.

TIO-TRILE

They're so great. They hired a great illustrator to do them.

LENA

Awesome. I should look them up. I may look into the Spanish translation of _The Witcher_ maybe.

TIO-TRILE

Yeah. That's what I always think. Like if it's already been translated once, if you're not reading English as its original language. Unless it's from like- it's from a language that's really similar to English. Like if you're reading a book translated from German, for example.

LENA

Yeah.

TIO-TRILE

Otherwise there's no point. Like if you're reading a book in Japanese then.

LENA

Yeah. Right.

TIO-TRILE

Just read it in your- in the translation in your first language.

LENA

First language. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know because I- that's interesting because I'm more used to reading in English in general, unless it's like a Spanish book like you said, if the original language is Spanish then I will for sure read it in Spanish because it’s my mother tongue. But in general if it's going to be translated, I would rather read it in English because that's what I'm used to these days.

TIO-TRILE

Oh, OK, that makes sense to you.

LENA

Yeah, it's just because I'm used to it because I write in English.

TIO-TRILE

Right. Right. Yeah.

LENA

So I ended up being more used to reading and writing in English than in Spanish. But yeah, it's interesting to hear it for like, a perspective of someone who has the opposite experience of reading more in the mother tongue than the other one. Curious.

TIO-TRILE

Yeah. The thing is there's originally a lot of books in English originally, so you have a lot of media that's supposed to be in English originally and that's how they're meant to be read.

LENA

Yeah.

TIO-TRILE

But yeah, whenever I run across media, you know, third language that would be, like, the Chinese translation will be the one to go to. However, I did read Good Omens in English because its originally in English and I don't think it will work that well in Chinese because there's so many, like British jokes, English jokes. But it's really fun. Like I collected both the mainland Chinese version and the Taiwanese Chinese version of Good Omens and just look up like passages where translators may have trouble to see how they handled it. And it's like the differences between translations is really interesting.

LENA

Yeah.

TIO-TRILE

I don't have the newest Chinese version, which supposedly has the part about the like the boy love main character or something.

LENA

Which one?

TIO-TRILE

So it's the parts where Aziraphale is “gayer than a tree full of monkeys on nitrous oxide.” The newest version supposedly say that he's gayer than the main character from ten homosexual novels, or something.

LENA

Wow. Oh, I did not remember that part.

TIO-TRILE

I have to check that out next time I buy books from China or when I go back.

LENA

Fair enough, fair enough. Related to that, so you said in your bio you read Good Omens in 2012. So were you in the fandom back then? And how was it?

TIO-TRILE

Yeah, that was my days in DeviantArt and my first move from DeviantArt to Tumblr, thanks lovely people in the fandom. So were you in the fandom 2019? Did you just join the fandom 2019?

LENA

Yeah, I came with the TV show.

TIO-TRILE

Yeah. So right now Good Omens is really-how do you say- it's like a normal fandom so that people join and just, like, normally communicate, but back then it would be like if you see someone posts Good Omen’s art, they will be like your best friend, or like your life lifesaver. So whenever- when you see someone like Good Omens art, you will be like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe your posting Good Omens art! This is the best day of my life! Because it's so- it's so small, I feel like and it's not like it’s super tiny. It still has a following because like after I joined Tumblr, there is indeed a community of Good Omens fans. But like still, every time someone sees Good Omens media, they will be like, wow, I can't believe you're doing this. You’re like just this one other person stranded on this vast sea that I finally see. This is a miracle. So, I would say especially especially in China, where it's even less popular. And I have this friend who would like prints for me, for Chinese conventions. And her table is specifically for small fandoms. And whenever she's- she said whenever people would come up to her table and get the Good Omens prints, they would be like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe it. Am I in a dream and all that.

LENA

Right, yeah.

TIO-TRILE

Because it's so small.

LENA

And in terms of fandom, have you always done art or do you have other creative outlets, we could say.

TIO-TRILE

I’ve almost- I've always done art. I must say, I'm not great with writing and even when I did those were- I never posted any of them or finished any of them and they were like elementary school textbooks.

LENA

Right, yeah.

TIO-TRILE

And yeah, I think art is the one that I did most and the one that I most enjoy. I mean, I also did some, like, crafts and stuff, but.

LENA

Yeah?

TIO-TRILE

Yeah.

LENA

Like acrylic charms and that kind of crafts or?

TIO-TRILE

Like, handmade figures or statues, and all that.

LENA

Oh, sculpting. Oh, really cool. And how- Crown of Thorns the fic, and then the pod’rama, how or when did you find out about them?

TIO-TRILE

I’ve known about it and Irisbleufic for a long time because they were in the fandom even before 2012. This was back, this was back on back in the LiveJournal days, when people didn’t even use Archive of Our Own. Everyone was LiveJournal, everyone was reading fanfiction on fanfiction.net or LiveJournal.

LENA

Yeah.

TIO-TRILE

And yeah I just, I knew about it for a long time and Irisbleufic was also like one of the ancient beings, the elder gods of the fandom, if you will.

LENA

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

TIO-TRILE

And they've just always been there as a monument of the fandom.

LENA

Yeah. And then when did you find out about the pod’rama?

TIO-TRILE

This year, actually, when Vivi told me about it and they're looking for artists. So-

LENA

Was this one of the first few waves of looking for artists, or was the pod’rama already going on?

TIO-TRILE

I think it was already going on. I don't remember exactly when she reached out to me, but at least when I went to the document, I see that a lot of the chapters are in progress already.

LENA

Right.

TIO-TRILE

And it's already- I would say that in the middle of the production, I would say.

LENA

Right, right, right. And did you already know what podfic was, had you found out about it? And do you remember when that was?

TIO-TRILE

I knew what podfic was before the Crown of Thorns podfic, I knew it was a thing just like audiobooks, and I think that's a great idea for people who would rather listen. And I think it's great that people would put their time and energy to produce something like this for other people to enjoy.

LENA

And have you ever considered doing your own?

TIO-TRILE

I have not.

LENA

Fair enough.

TIO-TRILE

Yeah, I just haven't considered it as an option.

LENA

Well, I mean, to each their own. So you mostly work with us as an artist. So take us back through your art career, so to speak. When did you first start drawing?

TIO-TRILE

Oh, I think I first started drawing when I was like one and a half. Because my mom was an artist and so we would- my mom was an artist who worked in one of those outsourcing animation companies in China. So she would- my family would always have just piles of paper and pencils lying around. So that's how I grabbed my first pencil.

LENA

Because it was around.

TIO-TRILE

Yeah, actually. That was the only thing to do, to start drawing a scribble.

LENA

Right. And then on a related note to this, tenner54 on Tumblr had a few questions for you. So do you work in traditional or digital medium or both? And did you go to school or are you self-taught? If you went to school, what school did you attend?

TIO-TRILE

So I do both digital and traditional art, although the ones I post online or on Tumblr are mostly digital. Because- and oh, and also for work now is mostly digital because there's a specific program that we use, but I do like traditional art because that's how I started and I'm also just- still feel really comfortable with a pencil or a pen on paper and like the control that I have in traditional art is- it’s still something that like digital art is trying to mimic, I would try to say. Yeah. So yeah, so I would do both traditional art and digital art for school and actually fanart or art on Tumblr is kind of my way of testing out new techniques that I want to use for digital art, so that's why you see myself sometimes going all over the place because I'm testing things out. And this is because- and Tumblr is just like- Tumblr and fanart is just really something that's for fun and you can put it out there so there's really no stake to it. And so this is where I start testing my digital art techniques. So mostly the art you see on Tumblr are digital art, although I like to do both traditional and digital art. I did go to school. I went to the University of Southern California for, what's the major called right now, they changed the name, art and design major and animation major. So double major, in both. So all art related.

LENA

And now you're working in DreamWorks.

TIO-TRILE

Yeah.

LENA

So that's pretty cool.

TIO-TRILE

Yeah, so. But I- when I was applying for school, I realized that I actually didn't want to apply for an art only school or art school. Because I still do want to learn about like other things or general studies and all that.

LENA

Yeah, fair enough.

TIO-TRILE

And was there another part of the question or did I get them all?

LENA

No, I think that was all. Did you go to school, are you self taught, and if so which one.

TIO-TRILE

Oh, yeah. I'm not self-taught. So, sometimes I see artists who are like, great and they're like I’m self taught, and I’m like how the hell?

LENA

Right. So I have a question on that because where I live, you don't have sort of minor and major system in the university. You just you pick an undergrad, I guess, and your subjects are chosen for you, you have a couple of them that you can choose, but they are always oriented toward what you would call your major. So what other subjects did you pick that weren't art related?

TIO-TRILE

We have those curriculums in school called the general studies, so there's like six categories of just general stuff like one is math and science and writing. To that, you can pick within these, you can pick your favorites within these areas, and these are all just classes, you don't have to do a degree towards them or anything. I picked- there was an astronomy class that I really enjoyed and geology. I'm really interested in, like just the history of the earth and archaeology in general. I love dinosaurs. And there's also two required writing classes that you have to take. And for one of my writing classes, the emphasis was studies on death. So Death Studies.

LENA

Wow.

TIO-TRILE

That was a really fun class. I loved the professor for that one. And we would talk about like death in general, death in media, death in real life.

LENA

Wow.

TIO-TRILE

Yeah.

LENA

That's deep.

TIO-TRILE

Surprisingly fun class.

LENA

No, I imagine. Yeah, it sounds like the kind of class that your professor needs to have a really good sense of humor to get that class going.

TIO-TRILE

Yeah, she's great.

LENA

Right, yeah. Do you have a favorite dinosaur?

TIO-TRILE

Oh, I love the Deinonychus, which is what Jurassic Park calls the Velociraptors, cause the Velociraptors are like smaller and the Deinonychus are the ones with the like deadly talons.

LENA

Oh. I'll admit, I don't know those ones. I'll find a picture probably.

TIO-TRILE

All right. They're basically the raptors in Jurassic Park, if you can picture them with feathers.

LENA

Vaguely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Still I'll look for a picture in case someone doesn't know for the transcript of the interviews.

TIO-TRILE

Right. I was also in the- although it wasn't a class, I was in the concert orchestra. The amateur one, not the professional. I was terrible. But-

LENA

What do you play?

TIO-TRILE

I played- I actually played. I played both the piano and the violin. But in concert orchestra, I have to play the violin and I just sit in the back row and move along with other people.

LENA

Did you take classes for this?

TIO-TRILE

Not in college. I took classes before I came to the United States because it was China and everybody had to learn instruments.

LENA

All right. Fair enough, I guess. All right. So going back to cover arts, how do you pick the chapters that you may cover art for?

TIO-TRILE

I pick the chapters where I- where the content is something I would like clearly see a picture out of. So when I read the chapter, if I have a clear image in my mind of, oh, like, this would be the mood, the vibe.

LENA

Right.

TIO-TRILE

For this entire- for this thing. Or there's like one picture that I see vividly in my mind that I wanted to depict. That would be a great chapter to illustrate for me.

LENA

Right, I yeah, I don't think I asked you before, you said you had- you knew the fic beforehand, but had you read it completely, were you still reading it?

TIO-TRILE

I have not read it completely, I'm sorry.

LENA

No.

TIO-TRILE

It's a very long fic.

LENA

It is. You're not- you're definitely not the only one, don’t worry.

TIO-TRILE

Okay.

LENA

Right. Right. So did you read just the summaries before picking the chapters or did you read around the ones that you thought you could do?

TIO-TRILE

Yeah, I first read the summaries to pick which ones seemed good and I would like to read the chapter to make sure that, oh, this is like what's going on, and it’s the same to the picture that I'm sort of like picturing. And this adds detail or adds more to the picture in my mind,

LENA

Right. And so what's your process like for creating that cover art?

TIO-TRILE

I- just like storyboards, I do- I like to do thumbnails on paper, so they will be like stamp sized sketches. Everything is really rough, and I would note down the compositions in that particular thumbnail. And then move on to the computer or Photoshop where I work to make a slightly bigger sketch, slightly more detailed, to further knock down the composition and then just keep adding on that. And I don't like to do super clean line art. I actually do like a sketchy- a sketchy sketch or line art in that sense, and then start painting under and then just start painting over. So that I don't have to, like, get the lights perfect and that way it’s more loose and it's got more of a painting feel to it, at least those are my process for the cover art pieces.

LENA

Right. Right, right, right. And how long would that usually take you then?

TIO-TRILE

It's hard to say because for fanart, I would just work on them in my downtime. Sometimes I work on them for a while and then like, go do something else and then come back to it.

LENA

Right.

TIO-TRILE

But if you count all together, it will be like a few hours, I would say.

LENA

Fair enough. So what do you like the most and the least about your work as an artist? I guess both in fandom and work work?

TIO-TRILE

I like my humor. Yeah, I think I have great ideas. I don't- the thing that I don't like about my art is my art. I’m just kidding. Yeah, but, you know, sometimes it's hard to like, when you see that great artist and you're like jeez. I'm- yeah, so I always feel like the- my art is something that can be improved, so I'm always looking for improvement or, more negatively, I'll always be looking for mistakes in my art, but I would find other things that I think I’m good at to stay positive, like my ideas or how fast I am at work, because I work really fast. No patience.

LENA

Well, that’s nice.

TIO-TRILE

Yeah.

LENA

Well, for what it's worth, I really like the art that you have made for the project.

TIO-TRILE

Thank you.

LENA

So do you have a favorite cover art picture that you've drawn from the two you did, and a favorite from any others that you've seen through the project?

TIO-TRILE

I- for mine, I really like the- I like the Raphael one, 56, I think.

LENA

Yeah, 56.

TIO-TRILE

Yeah, I like fire, I like fire and destruction.

LENA

All right.

TIO-TRILE

And I've been catching glimpses of other artists' art for the covers in the channel, and they're all like super sweet and great. Vivi did a lot of just super sweet ones with Aziraphale and Crowley.

LENA

And in particular, one that comes to mind?

TIO-TRILE

I would look at the art and I can't really connect them with the chapters, but there's one with like Aziraphale holding Crowley on the sofa, I think, and it's just a really, really sweet mood.

LENA

Oh, is that one of the last few that have been made? Yeah, I think this one hasn't gone up yet, so I won't be able to post-

TIO-TRILE

Oh, sorry.

LENA

No, it’s okay. So I won't be able to post the picture on the- or maybe it will have gone up by the time this interview goes up, actually. Yeah, we'll have to see. I don't know yet. But if it has gone up I think it's for- the one for 73. So.

TIO-TRILE

Okay.

LENA

Yeah, but I'm looking at it, it’s super cute.

TIO-TRILE

Her pieces are usually just super sweet.

LENA

Yeah. Yeah, I love it. All right, so one final question that I ask everyone, what is something that you've learned during this project?

TIO-TRILE

I have a- I have a funny story if I can share. It was like earlier 2019 or earlier this year, that I realized that AJ, or Irisbleufic was friends with me on Facebook and I can't really remember when I added them. And I've- I always feel really bad because I always wanted to say hi and I never did because it would be- it would be like, kind of weird to go out of the blue and say, hey, I didn't realize I- hello there. So. If they're listening to this, then just know that I've always wanted to say hi, but got scared.

LENA

You still could.

TIO-TRILE

Yeah, I can. And the reason I know it’s them it’s because of the Discord icon.

LENA

Woah.

TIO-TRILE

Yeah.

LENA

Yeah, well, there's a tidbit.

TIO-TRILE

Yeah.

LENA

Fair enough. Well, thank you so much for talking with us Tio-trile. Tell us, where can people find you online?

TIO-TRILE

You can find you online on my Tumblr blog, that's tio-trile.tumblr.com.

LENA

Awesome. Thank you so much.

TIO-TRILE

Thank you.

LENA

So this was all we had for today. Next time you'll have a different host Djap. He'll be talking to me, LenaLawlipop, the host of these interviews so far, organizer, editor, part of the social media team, and the voice of Mary Hodges and Rashid Bhatia. So keep your ears ready for that.

OUTRO MUSIC


	25. Interview with LenaLawlipop

**Interview with LenaLawlipop** ****

We have now finished the mammoth project that is Crown of Thorns Podrama, and we've got some extra content for you all!  
Along our way, we have managed to gather an amazing team of voice actors, editors, artists, musicians, and organizers.  
This is the start of a series of interviews with the team about their experience and involvement with the Crown of Thorns Podrama.  
We're continuing our interviews with Lena, who is an editor and organizer for the CoT project, dealing mostly with the social media aspect.  
She also voices Mary Hodges and Rashid Bhatia, and is the host of the CoT cast and crew Q&As.  
She found out about Good Omens through the TV show around fall 2019, but decided to read the book first and ended up loving both!  
Lena had dipped her toes on podfic before, but it's been with the Good Omens fandom that she's really dived in, so upon hearing about the project she knew she'd love to participate.  
It's by far the largest project she's been a part of, and she's thrilled about what's to come!  
Outside of fandom, Lena is a biologist and has recently started a youtube channel focused on her writing.

Love,  
The CoT Pod'rama Team

Listen - [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/6LKsskzb5g2uVEJgEtua1Y?si=G3Us5YpvQJOFwr52KRzCAA) / [Anchor](https://anchor.fm/crown-of-thorns-podrama/episodes/Interview-with-LenaLawlipop-eo8uvq)  
Listen and Download - [Archive.org](https://archive.org/details/interview-with-lena-lawlipop)

**Where to Find LenaLawlipop**  
[AO3](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) / [Tumblr](https://lenalawlipop.tumblr.com/) / [Youtube](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNfoTc9USVBSHL02zIiRX5A)

**Interview with LenaLawlipop Team**  
Hosted By - [Djap](https://archiveofourown.org/users/Djapchan) Composer - [ Nuitarie](https://soundcloud.com/nuitarie) Chapter Artist - [CompassRose](https://outlikethat.tumblr.com/)  
Interview Editor - [Djap](https://archiveofourown.org/users/Djapchan) Head Editor - [UnholyCrowley](https://archiveofourown.org/users/UnholyCrowley) Transcripts By - [AJfanfic](https://archiveofourown.org/users/ajfanfic) and [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works)

Length - 58:53 minutes

Question Time Stamps

00:19 Introduction: Who is Lena?  
01:14 Tell us something about yourself, that wasn't in your bio. Where are you from, what do you do?  
01:46 What do you want to work as in the future: Certain directions? Certain tendencies?  
02:57 What was your first fandom?  
04:49 Tartansea's question: Which three books other than Good Omens have you read that you feel have changed your life?  
09:44 CompassRose's Question: Are you involved in Spanish speaking fandom and if so is it different than the English speaking fandom?  
14:35 Have you Listened to Radio!Omens?  
14:53 If you had to choose between Book!Omens and Show!Omens, which one would win?  
15:55 How did you find (out about) Crown of Thorns?  
16:39 At first you did not want to do a voice, you wanted to help out in other ways?  
17:30 You started out as Organizer and then?  
19:05 What was your envolvement in Color Coding and how does it work?  
22:01 What did you like about Color Coding and what did you hate?  
25:26 What is your work as Organizer and for Social Media in the CoT project like?  
30:58 Ecchima's question: What gave you the idea for the Crown of Thorns Podrama interviews?  
33:20 GorillazGal86's question: Did you learn anything about yourself or did you find any new skill since your work on the CoT project?  
38:05 How did you become a Voice Actor despite your initial reluctance?  
43:43 Lena's Youtube Channel about writing  
49:50 Izzy's sweetheart 'question'  
51:47 Which one do you prefer at the moment? Writing or creating podfics?  
53:32 Where can Lena be found on the internet?  
54:06 Wrap Up and Preview for the next interview  
54:58 Surprise for Lena

Transcript: 

DJAP

Hello, everyone and welcome to our cast and crew Q&A. My name is Djap and today I hijacked this channel to interview our host, Lena.

Lena is an editor and organizer for the CoT project, dealing mostly with the social media aspect. She also voices Mary Hodges and Rashid Bhatia, and is the host of the CoT cast and crew Q&As. She found out about Good Omens through the TV show around fall 2019, but decided to read the book first and ended up loving both! Lena had dipped her toes on podfic before, but it's been with the Good Omens fandom that she's really dived in, so upon hearing about the project she knew she'd love to participate. It's by far the largest project she's been a part of, and she's thrilled about what's to come! Outside of fandom, Lena is a biologist and has recently started a youtube channel focused on her writing.

Hello Lena, welcome for your interview!

LENA

Hi, I’m happy to be here!

DJAP

Tell us something about yourself that wasn't in your bio, where are you from, what do you do?

LENA

So... I am from Spain. I am currently not doing much. I just finished my master's degree in molecular biology and biomedicine so, yes, I'm a biologist, and I'm, you know, searching for work and just doing all the fandom stuff that I didn't do while I was finishing my thesis.

DJAP

That sounds amazing, actually.

LENA

It kind of is.

DJAP

So what do you want to work, in the future? Do you have any certain plans, certain directions?

LENA

So the easiest direction right now is to find any kind of lab work that I can do. Biology is a very wide field so sometimes it's a little difficult to find a lab that's doing something that you really really like... but the plan so far as to find anything that will let me get into a lab and then from there sort of figure it out? I could do a PhD, which would be the easiest way to sort of go up and forward in my field, but I'm a little burned out from my undergrad and then my master's thesis so I'm looking for something to just work on, instead of just studying forever- forever after. So that's the plan so far and then on the side I will keep writing fics, and if the inspiration strikes for original work and I get an opportunity then that might happen, but I don't... I don't have any stakes on that one.

DJAP

It sounds definitely interesting, you will have to keep me in the loop of what's going to happen. What's the first fandom you actually ended up in? So you're bio says Good Omens wasn't your first, so, where did it start?

LENA

So I don't actually remember my first fandom as in the first thing I was super passionate about. I remember vaguely that when I was about 10 or 11, I was really into Naruto, and that might have been the first thing I actually looked up online? So in terms of online fandom I think it all started with Naruto AMVs on YouTube? Which is… an experience. I… I'm that kid who was jamming it to AMVs with the- how was the song called, the one from Cascada. Ah... I'm blanking on the name right now and I have it on my Spotify wrapped list, so... The… “Every time we touch”! Yeah, “Every time we touch” was like definitely up there when I was 10 or 11, and I was that kid, so yeah, it- in terms of online fandom it all started there.

DJAP

Sounds interesting. I watched the TV show well, the show on TV, but not for many episodes, so... my Naruto knowledge is very limited I fear.

LENA

Oh, no, mine too. I mean, I watched maybe like 2 seasons and I followed up until like the ninja exams that they take, and then things started going really weird and there's a lot of filler, and I just- I fell off the wagon, because... Because I have a lot of things to occupy my mind? I also got briefly into Teen Titans, and then I had books... A books series, that to this day is my home fandom. So Naruto was the start but it didn't- it definitely didn't stop very long there.

DJAP

So I collected a few extra questions for you, and Tartansea asked, which 3 books other than Good Omens have you read that you feel changed your life?

LENA

The first one has to be The Named, by Marianne Curley, and this is that book that I was mentioning, um, it's actually a trilogy. I'm not going to answer the question with “oh, those 3 books”, because that's cheating, but those 3 books, we’re just gonna count them as one, and definitely the first one just def- literally changed my life. When I was 11, I found that book, The Named by Marianne Curley, on my classroom’s mini-library and I read it. I love the setting and now that I'm older, and because I love it and I'm still in the fandom, even though the fandom is pretty much dead, I can now criticize it with the- you know an adult brain, and realize that it's not a very good book. Because it's not very well written, not because the plot isn’t interesting; the plot is actually super interesting and the characters are- are actually really… like… they have depth and they are very different from one another they have very distinct personalities, and I think most of the character interactions are very good, are very realistic, I'd say. The plot itself, and the way it’s written, is nothing to write home about, but when I was that young I was starting to write my own fics... like I said, I, everything started with Naruto when I found out about fanfiction.net, and... I don't know if AO3 was around and- or if I knew about it, but I definitely knew about fanfiction. And I started to write, and I've always been the kind of writer that really likes character interaction; my stories are always character-driven, so having a story where the characters were really, really interesting, I think it let me play around with writing a lot more. I wrote a lot more fanfic in Spanish. I- at the time, I was only writing in Spanish. I was not good with English yet. And because the fandom is tiny, even then it was super tiny, it was primarily in English because the book is from an Australian author, so I had to learn English. I had to get a lot better, and it was the start of me writing in English and eventually getting to the point I am now. So that's the first book, that to this day I still think it-that if I hadn't read that book I wouldn't be here. Other books that have changed me... interestingly enough I don't think Harry Potter was ever one of those books for me, even though I've read it, and it's... I've had a Harry Potter phase like everybody has. That probably wasn't it for me. Definitely had a very much more intense Twilight phase when I was about 13 or 14. I don't know if I'd say it changed me necessarily, but it definitely pushed my writing forward and this might be a trend with the books I read because I- whenever I read or consume any media that really touches me, I write about it. So I definitely wrote about Twilight a lot. And, in terms of other books. I can’t think of specific books right now, but I know there's this Spanish author, Laura Gallego, who wrote a ton of books that really sort of marked my childhood and early adolescence. None that I can just think... Maybe the Tower Chronicles, or... I don't know how to translate it, I don't know if they’re- her books are translated into English, but yeah. Some of them were school books but most of them I had read already by the time they became school reading, because, yeah, she was very... she was very out there when I was a kid. Um… she’s still there, she writes primarily for young kids or young teens, so it's not so much what I read right now, but I... she was very young, she was a very young author, and I sort of saw something I liked, something I admired in her. She had won writing prizes when she was about the age I was at the time, so I guess I was inspired to keep writing by her as an author and just in general her books, so, yeah. Cool question, though!

DJAP

Yes, I thought so too! And just for the record, I have written a lot about Harry Potter and read a lot, but it never changed my life so, I don't know.

LENA

I don't know, I've heard a lot of people say that Harry Potter and the- like- saga, and the community has changed their lives and I'm super happy for them, it just wasn't for me particularly. I think I was slightly too young.

DJAP

Okay. I was actually old when I read those, already. I was too old to wait for my own letter to arrive, definitely. Okay, so, this actually goes very well with the question that CompassRose has for you.

COMPASSROSE

I'm curious to know if you're involved in Spanish language fandom at all, and if so, if you notice any differences from English language fandom.

LENA

No. No, I'm not anymore. I used to be because obviously that's the first- my mother tongue, but I'm no longer involved in fa- Spanish fandom, because I got too used to writing and reading in English most of my content, and I think this is something that people who speak any other languages might relate to, even if it's not their mother tongue, it’s just, when you read in a different language, the normal- quote unquote normal set of expressions that you hear, the set of words that you, sort of... associate with different genres, it just sort of changes, and even if it's translated really well, the translator has done a job of interpretation of the original work, and has translated that into words that might mean something slightly different but will have a… proper feeling in the language that they are translating to. So, very often, when I get used to a piece of content in English, it's very hard for me to go back to Spanish and be like “oh this is called ‘whatever’ in Spanish”, like... for example I read the original Harry Potter books in Spanish, but I have consumed so much Harry Potter content in English that at this point I have no interest whatsoever in knowing what of Deluminator is called in in Spanish. I think I know what it's called, but I don't- I don't associate that word to it. So for me it's very difficult to go to Spanish fandom and be like “oh I relate to this”, because I don't, I don't relate to it anymore. Is it very different? I’m not entirely sure. I assume it is, because the set of countries that speak Spanish- especially because Latin America is so big in population compared to Spain- are very different culturally why- culturally… well, yeah they are very different to the set of countries that primarily speak English so I assume there must be differences there, but I wouldn't say much more on that, I- I don't know. Sorry.

DJAP

You just reminded me of something, actually. I used to write in the Digimon fandom, and I preferred gay pairings, and I would get the weirdest comments on that because I dared break up their heterosexuals favorite pairings. For some reason, Digimon is really big in South America.

LENA

Yeah I can actually speak on that, because Digimon was big when I was a kid and I wasn't super big into it. I was into it because I had a lot of friends who were, but I wasn't like the biggest fan, I was a Pokemon fan, but I remember because I have family in Latin America, and I used to visit when I was younger very often, I would watch TV there and it would air in- in like kids channels it's- it was always primarily a kids show, so I would not be surprised if the average age of the Digimon fandom was very young especially at the time, and also... from what I understand and- and I will add a caveat that I actually I'm not a person who has lived or grown up in Latin America, but from what I understand from my family and- and what my parents tell me and stuff, there is a lot more heteronormativity over there than in some other countries... I mean you are- you and I have a very European context for things so it's a lot different in that sense.

DJAP

Yeah I just wasn't sure if it was really a culture thing or an age thing or anything, I really don't have enough experience, and it was just Digimon where I had this experience so I don't know. It just reminded me of that.

LENA

And I mean, I guess it's, um, to be expected that if the audience is younger they haven't had the time to go through the loops of... you know teenage- just figuring out what you think is normal for your own- for yourself, right? Like if- if heteronormativity is imposed on you a lot stronger than in other countries, and you're still a kid, I wouldn't be too surprised if they were... you know, not outraged, but disjointed when they saw you writing gay fanfiction for a kids- for a kids program.

DJAP

Although, it was less the aspect of two guys together, it was just breaking up the pairing, which makes it an age thing for me? Like they were really invested in certain pairings that I dared to break up and have be together with somebody else? I don't know, so probably just an age thing.

So, your bio says your liked book!Omens and show!Omens. Have you listened to radio!Omens?

LENA

Not yet! It's in my phone, waiting for me to have a minute. But yeah, no- I- not yet. I've heard good things though!

DJAP

So if you had to choose between book!Omens and show!Omens, which one would win?

LENA

I think show!Omens, because I had wanted to read Good Omens for quite a few years before the show came out; it had been in my to-read list... which is becoming a thing with me, but it had been there for a while, and I knew vaguely what it was about but I hadn't actually started to read it, and I did really enjoy the writing voice and the way, just the way it’s written in general, but I did get into the whole fandom because of the show. I love the expressions that both- both main actors used for their characters, for Aziraphale and Crowley, so... I- I just have good memories of slowly but surely getting into the fandom because of them and... definitely, reading the book was a good experience and I really enjoyed the book but it really all clicked for me with the show.

DJAP

How did you find Crown of Thorns?

LENA

I was in a Good Omens server and Lit was talking about it, and I was like okay, what is this about? And after figuring out that the summary was... Difficult; summarizing Crown of Thorns is really difficult, really, even now that I more or less have figured out what it is about, it's still difficult to put it together into a couple of sentences. I… at first didn't really think that I would want to be part of the story itself, and then realized, wait, hold on, I do want to be part of the project and I can probably help with, like, anything that is not voice acting on a main character.

DJAP

Okay, so at first you didn't even want to do voice? You just wanted to help out in other ways?

LENA

Yes originally I was only an organizer, I wasn't even in social media, I... So, this is not a dig on the story in any way whatsoever, the story is very well written, I very much have enjoyed- I haven't read the entire thing, but I have read most of it through helping with, um, coding -color coding- but I... I'm very self aware and I know that slice of life kind of stories don't hold my attention for very long, and this was very long! So I didn't want to join in a project that I sh- I was sure that a lot of people would want to, and I didn't want to take up a space that other people would enjoy more. So I didn't consider voice acting for it, no.

DJAP

Cool. So you started out as organized and then?

LENA

I started off as organizer, because at the time I was in the middle of my master’s degree. I hadn't started on my thesis, but I was- I had a lot of subjects and classes, and I had a very long commute, so I didn't know how much time I would have? So I started off, like I said, helping with color coding the text for the chapters for actually most of the... I don't- I wouldn't say the second half, but the- maybe the last third of the chapters, I guess? I- I started out helping with that. So that's how I ended up reading a lot of the latter half of the story before I actually knew what the story was about. And then it sort of happened that they were asking for editors and a head editor. And I wasn't sure... I wasn't confident in my editing skills at the time, so I didn't participate but I felt a little bad because I- I think at least that I'm good or decent at keeping track of things and people and sort of organizing, which is why I joined as an organizer. And I would have wanted to help with that but Rhi took that position, and thank god because I don't know if I had that kind of time back then. And, um... I ended up helping with social media, which no one was really sure how we were going to do, so I decided why not just help with that.

DJAP

Well that's then the perfect place for you, if keeping an eye on everything is your thing, then that's the best place to be right. I don't know if in the past interviews you have spoken about color coding so I just wanted to make sure to explain it in case that people don't know what you're talking about.

LENA

Right. I have, you weren’t there for it, because wasn't your interview and it hasn't gone up yet as we're recording this, but I did speak about this with Lady Lier for a little bit because she actually started off the entire color coding process, but I can I can talk about it again briefly. So, the text was divided- it's already divided into chapters, and it was divided into sections and someone- I'm actually not sure who but maybe Lit? Or someone, one of the early organizers, figured out a color coding system for every character and someone just coded all of those into a style in word so whenever we downloaded the document with a blank chapter we... the people who were color coding, which was- we would have to go through the dialogue and, sort of, to each paragraph… give it the style of the character who was talking. So if it was Aziraphale or Crowley, or any of the other characters, or pick one of the minor character styles for those characters that appeared only once, and sort of put it on bold if it was dialogue that the voice actor would have to read or un-bold it if it was dial- not dialogue, narration that the narrator would have to read, etc. just so it would be visually easy for the voice actors to then go download the chapter and record their parts. So- and this way it's also easier for the editors who need to put the lines into the- into the full chapter, whenever they are looking to see if they are missing a line, it's also easier that way. So I helped with that.

DJAP

Yes, as an editor, I definitely loved the colors. And I do think in colors. If I have a quick look over a chapter I would know who's in it without seeing any overview or templates or anything, just by the colors. Like, the main characters, not- not all the side characters, but the main characters you will recognize at some point.

LENA

Oh, you will, yes. Also you have edited chapters with a ton more VAs than me. I have also edited stuff, I- I started off not wanting to, but when I- when I started editing I was like okay I'm gonna take this chapter, it has only 2 VAs and the narrator, because I'm a baby, but I imagine if you have 15 VAs you definitely need the color coded.

DJAP

Yeah! Without question, it's really helpful!

LENA

Well, it wasn't my idea but it was definitely something that I immediately realized, oh, yeah, this is going to be needed, let me help.

DJAP

So, what did you like about that work and what did you hate?

LENA

I really like the... the sort of mindless aspect of it, because... and maybe this is not so for everybody who color coded. I could just sort of hold control, the key in the keyboard, control and go down with the arrows? I don't know if, like a lot of people know this but if you press control and down or up keys, it will just skip paragraph to paragraph. And I could just be like “who's talking” and color code that way. So I would be like, hold control down skip down, and every 2 lines I would be like this is Crowley, so I would start with one color? Let's say Crowley for example because I just said it, and I would go through the entire chapter and just press control Y, the letter Y, and it repeats the last action you did, so I would just be like control down, down, down, Y, down, down, down, Y, until I got all the Crowley lines and then I would repeat the same process with like every other VA. And it was very mindless, I could just sort of skip through the story and how like- the vague idea of what happened, without getting too many spoilers, and also just- I enjoy passing my time like that and having music on the background or something like that. And at the time when I was doing this, I was on holiday with my family- this was before COVID, which seems strange because it's only been a year, but we were on holiday for a couple of days and we had a lot of time in the car, so I could just either do that, rest my eyes and look at the scenery for a little while and then keep doing that. It was just relaxing and fun. What I didn't like was having to revise that afterwards because... and I didn't do this at the very beginning, at the very beginning in December, I wasn't doing that, but at some point through the recording process during the year it became very obvious that some of the chapters weren't exactly right or so- had like coding mistakes, which, some were mine and some weren’t and- and it's- it's just going to happen no matter what so it's always good to have a beta reader in those cases. Yeah because I was already sort of doing that, I sort of had to go through the chapters and see if they were properly color coded. That, I didn't like as much because I'm a very bad re-reader of things. My own things, other people's things, it doesn't matter, I'm bad at re-reading content that I have already gone through. So that wasn't fun, per se, it had to be done and it got done but it wasn't fun.

DJAP

I'm very grateful for that tip. I have never done it like that, I have prepared many multivoice texts by now, and I always do it line by line because I'm terrified that I will skip something. And as you said, it always happens.

LENA

It always happens, yeah.

DJAP

You can do it with as much consideration as you want, you will mess up at some point, it just happens.

LENA

Yeah.

DJAP

Really bad are the situations where somebody says the name of somebody else.

LENA

Oh, yeah, when you're like... reading super quickly and then you're like oh this is Aziraphale and you tag Aziraphale, and it turns out it’s Crowley saying his name.

DJAP

Exactly, and I have the same issue when I'm editing. Like I know Crowley is speaking but I would still open Aziraphale instead, and wonder where the line is.

LENA

Oh, yeah. Gods, that- all the time, yeah.

DJAP

What else did you do as an organizer? Or did you move to social media from there?

LENA

So when I started on the social media team, we figured out which platforms we were going to use and I don't think I was there alone doing that, I think it was just a combination of the people who were talking, which platforms we were comfortable with, and I think some of them had already been picked, obviously, for the announcements of, or recruiting people, which I wasn't there for. I didn't join at the very very very beginning. Because again I wanted to- I didn't think I would want to voice act, so I just didn't realize I could do something else so I joined a little later on, and by then I think the Tumblr and Twitter were already up I don't know about the Instagram, not entirely sure, maybe it was there and I don't remember... because even today I don't do a lot of- with the Instagram, that’s mostly Rhi’s dominion, but we had to figure out the templates for the posts, so, anyone who's been looking at all of the social media will have noticed that most of our posts are always the same just changing the actual chapters and the actual content of the chapters, and the links and stuff like that. So the template itself had to be created. I vaguely remember having a brief meltdown because I wasn't sure what to write and I was already doing that, so I think it was a... I think Rhi helped, and Compass possibly? I don't remember this was back in... if not December, January. But yeah I remember being there for that so I remember creating the templates and putting together the Google docs with the templates. Also figuring out the positioning of all the text and everything for the Instagram, I remember also helping with that and... I also remember being in the car when I was doing this but I was no longer on vacation, so I cannot remember where I was. I don't drive in case anyone’s worried, my parents-my father was driving, probably, but I don't remember where I was, or why was I ignoring the general conversation to do this while I was on a car, on my phone? But I was doing that. So I remember helping with that. And then after we... also... like, it was just a joint effort so I was there for like a lot of the conversation of “when are we posting things” so it was when the schedule for a -24 hours, -12 hours and then posting-hour was drafted, and we’ve kept with that. And… yeah, after that… it was just a matter of learning to do the posting, which took a couple of chapters and then became very automatic. Right now I have an alarm every day- it’s- currently 10 minutes to 9 in the morning and 10 minutes to 9 in the evening, and then I go “oh, is it a posting day?” If yes, I prepare my things and I post. If not I just ignore the alarm. I also have a- reminders in my calendar so if I look at the alarm and my calendar notification says nothing, then it's not a posting date. It’s very automatic right now. I also have drafts and all of that, so it's just- you know, we got used to that. Originally I was doing all-all 3 social media accounts. Eventually, because it was a little bit too much, I asked for help and Rhi is taking currently care of the Instagram, the only thing I post on Instagram are the teasers, because timezones, so I post the teasers and I post the… What's it called, the… interview question thingies and all of those, because of time zones again. So yeah, that's something I did with the social media team. Helped start posting… I think I’ve been in a couple... I think I've been in most if not all of the voice call meetings that we've had ever since I joined, so I probably have helped sort of brainstorm a couple of ideas for events, because events are kind of a social media thing, so I've been there for that. I’ve probably bothered Compass with graphics more than anyone should have bothered Compass with graphics. Sorry Compass! I accidentally asked Nuitarie for a music piece and then realized oh no I'm asking for a music piece. What else have I done... I don't remember- this is hilarious- I don't remember who came up with the idea for interviews, but I do remember volunteering to run them so I guess that's on me. And that has been on me for the rest of the project the- it's b- it's been on me scheduling them... Sort of asking for the transcripts, which AJM has been taking care of at least most of the time, and Rhi obviously for help with head editing... but yeah the recording, the scheduling with the people- the interviewees, and the actual editing has been on me so far until today where you have hijacked the thing, and yeah I don't know if I've done a lot more than that, actually.

DJAP

Well it was a lot. It's not nothing.

LENA

It's not nothing, no.

DJAP

You actually jumped ahead to a question that Ecchima had for you.

ECCHIMA

What gave you the idea to make interviews for Crown of Thorns Podrama? Or what made you want to do interviews?

LENA

I don't remember who came up with the idea, I do remember being very interested in the thought. It was clearly very social media oriented and I was already seeing myself as you know, the social media person. Not The social media person as in the only one but I- I like, again I don't want to say this as a bragging thing, it’s just that I was already doing a lot of things in social media so I just went, hey this is something I can do and I can use my voice. Even though I'm not a voice actor, I can sort of put myself a little bit more out there, right? And I also get to know all of these people who are fandom peers that I just don't know yet. So we're in the same project and I guess it's difficult to get to know one another when timezones exist, not everyone is super active on discord... Clearly there are people here in the project who have had a ton more podfic experience than others, not to mention Podders, who is a goddess. So, yeah I just wanted to sort of have a chance to hear everyone, especially because I'm better at talking to people one to one... or one on one I guess is the expression, instead of in a group. The- the discord is great, I love talking to people in the discord but it's mostly a work environment. Or, a workspace, it's not like- it's not super strict, we- we have times where we joke around and it's- it's fun, but it's generally left for organizing and- and sort of recording things and messages, there is a lot of “Hey this chapter is up” or, hey, reminders for whenever voice actors need to turn in things, so it's-it's not the same as having a conversation. And yeah I'm just not good at group conversations anyways, so I just decided, hey this is something I can do, I can ask questions, and if nothing else, I can listen to people, so, yeah.

DJAP

I have another question from Gorillazgal86 for you.

GORILLAZGAL86

Hi Lena, it's Mags, and I'd like to ask you a question if that's quite alright. What I would like to know is if you learned anything about yourself or you found a skill you didn't know you had at the start of the Crown of Thorns process. Thank you!

LENA

Oh gods. I- so this year has been strange for everybody, right? So I don't know if this is something I've learned, it’s just something that has been really cemented for me is that I… am not the kind of person who will jump into leadership at first. Or not even leadership just sort of opportunities to put myself out there, at first, and then if I see that it's necessary and no one else is doing it, I will fight to do it because I feel like a strong responsibility to bring my projects to the best they can be, and I'm suddenly the kind of person that I need to be the one doing things if I want to be entirely 100 percent sure that is going to get done. It’s not a good thing, like, all the time. I have- through the project I've had many times where I've been like I can’t do everything and I already know that if I let myself I will want to and I’m not going to do this to myself... so definitely this project has been an exercise on not doing everything that I wanted, or thought I could possibly do, so there's- there's one point. Which is you know, it's neither good nor bad, just situationally good whenever something needs to get done and I can jump in and help, and could have been a lot worse if I sort of wanted to put every single minute of my free time into this, it could have been a lot worse for everybody involved... so that's something I’ve… if not learned, exercised I guess. In terms of new things, definitely the interviews. I had never interviewed anybody before and I'm very sure- I haven't gone back and listened and I probably will have to, but I- I'm not relishing the idea of going back to listen to the first one. I'm sure it was very awkward. I think... the idea of recording an interview felt really overwhelming and like “oh no what are they going to think, are are they going to think my questions are stupid, or am I going to be able to sort of keep track of everything, like all of the information I'm hearing, and respond in a way that feels like I've been listening and not only just like I'm following a… a script of questions, which is definitely something I learned as I went, right? Like I didn't start out trying to ask all of the follow up questions that I ended up following up other people with. So, yeah, the- the interviews have been a learning curve. And- and also social media, for sure I've never had a social media presence like in my personal life. Yeah sure I have social media accounts, but not a social media presence, I don't have a lot of followers anywhere so... it was interesting taking care of something that I knew I could do but I had never done before. I was familiar with the platforms I was using but I had never tried to use them in this capacity before. It has been… if not a learning curve, an interesting take on something I hadn't done in that way before.

DJAP

I can definitely relate to most of that. Trying to do this interview for you is so... it's also a learning curve in itself.

LENA

Yeah.

DJAP

It’s hard to do that, to find the correct way to not interrupt and to steer the questions where you want them to go, but still show interest in what the person who’s interviewed is actually saying. Like you said, you're listening and you're trying to make it interesting and show that you find what the other person says interesting as well, which it is.

LENA

Yeah.

DJAP

On the other hand you have this list of questions you want to get to, and you have to find the proper way in between so, yeah, I totally get that.

LENA

For the record if you need to interrupt because I definitely know I can talk too much, and if you have like a ton of questions to get to, I will understand.

DJAP

The thing is, I'm trying to do the questions you usually do, but I'm trying not to repeat all the questions, because in- at least in the later interviews you did already tell things about yourself so we already know some of these things and we want to keep it interesting so... It's a challenge.

LENA

Right.

DJAP

You became a voice actor at some point, so tell us about that. How did that happen, since you originally did not want to.

LENA

Okay so the first one was Mary, and I'm not going to lie it was a pinch hit, they need help and again here's me being like I could do this and this project I'm participating on I want it to be the best I can so if they need a voice, I will voice that character. So me being me I just said yeah I'll do it and then realized, who is this character, without realizing that it's actually a kind of character! Yes, I know I'm the worst. So...

DJAP

I had the same issue with Mary, so I think you’re excused.

LENA

I did quickly realize who she was but, again, I- so, I'm not used to her surname. I- definitely the most recognizable part of her is the loquacious part, not the actual surname part I think it's Hodges, right? So yeah, I did not- it did not click for me that it was Mary Loquacious. When it did, I was like okay so I'm being her that's fine, that's cool I speak a lot, I relate. Sorry, by the way.

DJAP

You shouldn’t, it's your interview. Talk all you want.

LENA

But yeah I- I sort of- I went into the chapters that I had to voice her for, I downloaded them, I looked for the color coded thing, I went “oh, I color coded some of these” and then... this is me then. I just tried to do a voice where she wasn't exactly the show version of her because I know this is not a show oriented story, the story was written with the... Book characters in mind, and I wanted to- to sort of- keep that up, keep that theme going, but I'm not sure how well I managed to do that because her- so, her dialogue both in the text, so, the book, and in the show, is pretty much the same. So she is very well represented in the show. I try not to give her the exact same intonation that she has in the show, but you know there's only so many ways to make someone talk... that is just someone who talks a lot. So. Yeah I did my best and I didn't overthink it, I mean she's a really minor character in the big scheme of things so, yeah, I did that. And there for Rashid, that was also another pinch hit. I was never a voice actor but I did join the pinch hitter for voice actors after a while because if it was a short enough thing, even while I was doing my master's thesis I could contribute a short thing. So Rashid, I actually- and I think there was someone else, I believe it was Tezca, who offered to do Rashid, but I... I offered, hoping that I would get Rashid, and then Tezca seemed fine with the idea and then I just did his voice, because Rashid gets introduced in a chapter in the middle of the story I- I, sorry I have no idea what's chapter that is but it's one that also came up in the interview with- the second interview with AJ. He is an external point of view, he has no lines in that chapter, he's an external point of view on Aziraphale and Crowley, and in that chapter there are a bunch of external points of view. And I remember color- if I didn't color code I at least read that chapter for a beta reading for the color coding. And I remember Rashid standing out to me the most being one of those that I was like really- sort of- immersed in his point of view and the way he saw the main characters... I- I really like external points of view in a lot of things, but Good Omens has a lot of fics like that, not just this particular chapter. I've read a lot of those sort of on Tumblr and stuff, because these are two characters that do not change through the times, and so humans are bound to find them interesting one way or another. I mean I guess we have an entire fandom who finds them interesting, one way or another, but yeah, Rashid, he definitely stood out to me and... the perspective of someone who has had these two people in his life for so long, who probably has what we now call a parasocial relationship with them, sort of the way we interact with influencers, and YouTubers, and social media presences, in that we know them and they sort of know we exist as their followers and in this case as their waiter, but they don't know us by face or by name, whereas we know them really well; that relationship that Rashid has with Crowley and Aziraphale was really interesting to me and it- I don’t know, it resonated with me in a weird way and I just really liked him. So getting to voice him was, you know really- really nice. I don't know if cathartic is the word but it was definitely something I really enjoyed, so I'm glad that I got to voice Rashid after all yeah.

DJAP

It's always fun to be able to read a part in a multivoice, but if you get the part you want it’s even better. And it doesn’t have to be a main character or anything, sometimes I don't even want the main character role, I just want the one person I relate to most so I can understand that. Okay, so, your bio mentions that YouTube channel and I’ve found it most interesting. How do you have a YouTube channel about writing?

LENA

Okay, so there is an entire community of writers in YouTube, it's called authortube, though I hear that they have recently started to call it creatortube... but mostly- mostly called authortube. There has been a lot of fighting about the name because the definition of author versus a writer and who sort of quote unquote deserves to be an author and all that, so that’s their own prerogative. I'm sort of in the- in the edges of that community in the sense that I don't intend to become a published author, it’s not my current goal at all, and I write primarily fanfiction, if not always fanfiction, so that's not very common in the authortube community, but I have followed them for a very long time, I, um... they have sort of- not coached me, but helped me through getting better at writing and sort of elevating my hobby of writing to a place where I can, you know, confidently say that I'm good at it. I'm not the best and I don't think I know, or you will know, any writer who go “oh yeah I'm the best writer”. But yeah I- I have followed them for a long time and I like the content they make but I also wanted to do this as a way of reminding myself of my own writing journey, because I have a horrible memory. And especially this year, which has been so, so weird, just sort of having semi periodic updates of what I've written, when, how I was feeling at the time, what I've been doing sort of creatively in that particular aspect of my life, it's sort of appeals to me, sort of in a journalistic way of my own life, to look back on it. I don't have a lot of followers. I actually don't know how many I have, it's on the low twenties because, I don't know, at least 5 are people I know in real life. And I don't know who the rest are and if they look, my YouTube statistics says they don’t, but I again I don't really make my videos for them. Not yet. And like I said, I don't have a lot of social media presence so I don't- sort of- advertise my videos anywhere, really. It's kind of crazy to say, I started the channel last year on November, because of NaNoWriMo last year, and I literally just posted my NaNoWriMo wrap up this year, so. Yeah, it's interesting. I started, like I said for journaling and keeping track of my own writing, and it's still that- like that, except now I have a better grasp on what I want to do with it than I did last year when I started on a whim.

DJAP

I didn't know about the channel before I prepared the interview today, so I went over and had a look, and I found it interesting. I didn't have time to listen to a lot yet, but I saw your NaNoWriMo summary you did at the end there, and where you explained how that's going. And I saw one from before these, and can I just point out that I love the wallpaper, the giraffe wallpaper? It's amazing.

LENA

Thank you! Giraffes are my favorite animal and that's like the tiny part of my room you get to see, my entire room is coated in them. I have too many plushies, and they're stuck in a- like- in a drawer under my bed, too. When we moved into this place, years ago, my parents- I was- I was still quite young, and my parents bought me the giraffe paper and it was just the coolest thing on this earth and honestly it still is, it slaps, the only thing that's bad about it - and you will never guess what it is - the only thing that is bad about my wallpaper is, in summer, because it's- you know a pattern that peop- that giraffes use to disguise themselves, mosquitoes are super difficult to find.

DJAP

Okay, I see! I did think about spiders because I used to have bed linens that had ants all over it as the pattern.

LENA

Oh, god…

DJAP

I had more than once where something would be running suddenly because I didn't see the spider before because it got lost on the pattern, so I'm not using that anymore.

LENA

Ohhh, nooo… Yeah the wallpaper’s on the part of the room that like my bed is, so like a spider would be sort of visible, and if they are higher up in the ceiling I don't bother them and they don't bother me. Mosquitoes on the other hand do bother me, so yeah. In fact, if you go back on my YouTube you will see that some of the videos have like a sort of white cloth between me and the wallpaper and that's because in summer, I put up a mosquito net around my bed. It sort of looks like a, I don’t know, like a princess bed, or something, it's just a mosquito net hung from the ceiling because I- I don't know why it's just all the mosquitoes end up in my room. We have other rooms and other people in the house but it's they all- they all are in my room. They like me,

DJAP

In Germany we say you have sweet blood.

LENA

Yeah, I heard that in Spain as well. I do not care for having sweet blood.

DJAP

I can imagine.

LENA

I'm also mildly allergic, so it’s not- not great

DJAP

Oh, yeah, okay, that’s not fun at all. So, there is one- I think there was one question over Twitter that you are aware of, so I wanna ask you that now. Although it’s technically- not really a question

IZZY

I've got a question for Lena - What's it like to be such a delightful sweetheart? And do you know how much we all love and appreciate you? Because we do! A whole bunch. Mwah!

LENA

I have seen that yes, I- thank you Izzy, thank you so much. I- I guess I would know but I don't know what to answer that! I- I don't always- this is- this is- this goes back to the idea that the discord chat is mostly work-related, is that we have, you know, you say something and people react with an emoji when they have seen it... I don't know it- it's- it's not the kind of place where you go like, oh yeah, we appreciate you, or like, talk about, like, this kind of thing. I imagine we will have a thank you fest whenever this is over, but it's not- I don’t know it's- I- I guess it's just- I'm trying to say that it’s really nice to hear that and thank you.

DJAP

I think we just all enjoyed our interviews a lot and we just want to let you know!

LENA

Thank you. Yeah it really means a lot. I... used to be that kid, who didn’t know how to talk to people and make friends, and I’ve sort of worked on that as I went and I guess I found my niche in having one to one conversations, where I think- at least I hope I'm- I'm decent at listening to people and making them feel like I'm listening and sort of being empathetic, and I hope I… that's- that's what I hope I do, generally. So… Thank you.

DJAP

You're very welcome and I'm very sure that we all had a lot of fun and that you made us feel very safe, and happy, and in a good place to talk to you, and reveal things about ourselves, so… thanks for that.

LENA

Well. You're welcome.

DJAP

Which one do you prefer at the moment, writing or creating podfics?

LENA

It's an odd balance for me. So, depends on what I'm used to doing, like I- I carry momentum with my creativeness, so... right before NaNoWriMo I was really into podfics, especially editing because I had a lot of unedited podfic, I still do, and I... also was recording stuff for ITPE treats. I had a lot of time invested into that before November, and now that I have spent a month sort of drafting and writing I'm definitely more invested into writing. I'm currently editing my gift for the Crown of Thorns Christmas exchange and I'm also editing some stuff that I want to put out this month, I'm doing Chr- not Christmas, sorry, I'm doing winter prompts for The Witcher, so yeah, writing all over the place. And I need to go back to editing audio because ITPE is coming up. So I- I definitely right now in this moment as we are talking I'm more into writing... I probably should switch sometime soon.

DJAP

But you do enjoy both equally, it sounds like… well, not the editing, I know about that. In general, creating podfics.

LENA

Yeah, no, definitely not- not the editing. It's easier to do the editing for podfic, it’s… harder to actually sit down and edit podfic than it is to sit down and edit writing. Well, I guess it depends on how much I want to edit either, but yeah editing is not my thing but I do it I- I do it, so yeah I- I enjoy both equally, yes.

DJAP

Lena’s last traditional question: tell us where people can find you on the internet?

LENA

Where can people find me online... so I have recently, finally, changed all of my social media to be LenaLawlipop, and that’s L. E. N. A. L. A. W. L. I. P. O. P. LenaLawlipop, and that- you will find me in AO3, as LenaLawlipop, you will find me on Twitter, you'll find me on Tumblr, oh, and YouTube is LenaReads [transcript Lena: it’s actually not, it’s Lena Writes :’D]

DJAP

As usual, we will have the links to your social media on the transcript for this interview in case people don't want to type. And, well, that’s it for today! Thank you very much for the interview Lena!

LENA

Thank you for having me.

DJAP

And please tell us what you know next time for you is not.

LENA

For… not quite next week but this time this is being posted it's already, actually this is posted after Christmas so, happy holidays, everyone, and for the next and the final interview the- the Crown of Thorns team is going to offer, we're going to be talking to Literarion again, because the year is finishing, the project is finishing, and we want to know what her thoughts are now that everything has happened, so keep your ears ready for that!

LITERARION

Hey Lena, this is Lit. I just wanted to say thank you for all of your work on Crown of Thorns this year. For taking care of all of these interviews which have been amazing, and I get to be interviewed by you again, and I'm already looking forward to that. And you've done an amazing job with everything, with the interviews, with the questions, with the organization, with all of the social media stuff that you've done, with everything. So thank you. I really appreciated it and I for one certainly couldn't have finished this project without your help.

IRISBLEUFIC

Thank you so much Lena, for your hard work on the project and on these interviews in particular, it was a pleasure to speak with you, twice, and to listen to your conversations with the rest of our lovely participants as well.

PODFIXX

Thanks Lena, and the team, for all your hard work on the interviews, from Podfixx.

COMPASSROSE

Lena, thank you so much for putting together these interviews and all of the hard work you put into it, on top of all of the other hard work that you've done for this project. I've really enjoyed learning more about the diverse lives and experiences of everybody on our cast and crew, it's been truly a pleasure, and thanks also to everyone else who has put in work on these interviews. I think that this little piece of the project has added so much to the project as a whole and I'm just really pleased to have been involved and to have been included. Thanks again.

GORILLAZGAL86

Thank you so much to everyone who contributed to Crown of Thorns. It's been an amazing experience working with such creative and driven individuals, and I am so proud to have been able to take part. Thank you.

UNHOLYCROWLEY

Hi Lena, it’s Rhi. Thank you for putting so much effort into these interviews. It's been so fun listening to all the stories from our cast and crew and I had a blast on my own interview as well. You've been an absolute star, thank you so much.

GRIN

Hi Lena, this is Grin, and you'll probably identify me right away thanks to that poor English accent. Thank you ever so much for your hard work and enthusiasm interviewing each one of us. It was an amazing experience to talk with you and even more to listen to all the cast and crew stories. We’re a very diverse one, and I am allowed to doing so thanks to you, so I can't wait to listen to what you’ll have to say in your upcoming talk.

VIVI

Thank you, Lena, for everything you’ve done for the project. You’re amazing. I hope we’ll get to work together again in the future.

NUITARIE

Hi, Nuitarie here. I wanted to thank the whole Crown of Thorns Pod’rama interview team, and especially Lena who was a delight to be interviewed by, so thank you again.

NASH NOLASTNAME

Thank you so much for everything you've done, it really does mean the world to us all.

ECCHIMA

Thank you so much for taking the time to interview me, Lena, it was really fun talking to you.

IZZY

Thank you Lena! You're the best. Thank you~

PHINNSY

Thank you Lena, for all your hard work and for introducing me to so many wonderful people. You're the best.

DJAP

Hi Lena! I hope you like our little surprise for you at the end, and I wanted to take the time to tell you thank you for having us on these interviews, and I wanted to say thank you to the rest of the team who worked on the interviews as well. You all did a wonderful job, and I'm very glad to have been able to work with you. Thanks!

OUTRO MUSIC


	26. Project Wrap Up Interview with Literarion

**Project Wrap Up Interview with Literarion** ****

We have now finished the mammoth project that is Crown of Thorns Podrama, and this is the last interview for you all!  
Along our way, we have managed to gather an amazing team of voice actors, editors, artists, musicians, and organizers.  
This is the last of series of interviews with the team about their experience and involvement with the Crown of Thorns Podrama.  
We're continuing our interviews with Literarion, who is the lead organizer of the CoT project, came up with the idea and organizational structure for the project, brought the team together to create the Crown of Thorns Podrama, and is the incredible voice actor behind Aziraphale.  
Join Lena in the last interview with Literarion, for her thoughts on the wrap up of Crown of Thorns Podrama.

Love,  
The CoT Pod'rama Team

Listen - [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/417FLJPAbprCC3asgNPbhD?si=BBWE20HdTBihCTA35o5Zww) / [Anchor](https://anchor.fm/crown-of-thorns-podrama/episodes/Project-Wrap-Up-Interview-with-Literarion-eocds1)  
Listen and Download - [Archive.org](https://archive.org/details/project-wrap-up-interview-with-literarion)

**Where to Find Literarion  
**[AO3](https://archiveofourown.org/users/Literarion/profile) / [Twitter](https://twitter.com/Literarion) / [Tumblr](https://literarion.tumblr.com/)

**Project Wrap Up Interview with Literarion Team**  
Hosted By - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Composer - [ Nuitarie](https://soundcloud.com/nuitarie) Chapter Artist - [CompassRose](https://outlikethat.tumblr.com/)  
Interview Editor - [LenaLawlipop](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/works) Head Editor - [UnholyCrowley](https://archiveofourown.org/users/UnholyCrowley) Transcripts By - [AJfanfic](https://archiveofourown.org/users/ajfanfic)

Length - 43:02 minutes

Question Time Stamps

00:10 Introduction  
00:58 What are your first impressions of how the project has been now that it's done?  
01:41 Organization and production-wise, was it what you expected, or was it different?  
04:29 Was this similar to the experience of organizing volunteers?  
05:20 What have you learned about fandom in the last year?  
06:43 On the creative side of things, how has the experience made you feel about Good Omens as a fandom and about your character, Aziraphale?  
14:15 Questions from Compass: What do you count as the greatest success of the project, and is there anything you count as a failure or that it didn't come out as you hoped?  
17:31 Do you feel you've been able to do it justice, artistically?  
19:23 Would you do it again?  
22:32 Do you have any advice for anyone who might want to start a similar project?  
38:38 How are you feeling, now that the main project has ended?  
41:08 Where can people find you online?

Transcript: 

INTRO MUSIC

LENA

Hello everyone and welcome to our last cast and crew Q&A. My name is Lena and today I have for you an interview with Literarion, the lead organizer of the Crown of Thorns project. She came up with the idea and organizational structure, and bought the team together to create the Crown of Thorns pod’rama. She is also the voice actor for Aziraphale. She fell head over heels into the Good Omens fandom in June 2019, and fell in love with Crown of Thorns not long after. Lit has created a variety of podfics in the fandom. She works in research, and has managed both large international projects, and groups of volunteers, for many years. And today, we get to talk to her about this giant project that has recently come to an end. Lit, it’s an honor to have you with us today.

LITERARION

It’s an honor to be here.

LENA

So, what are your first impressions on how the project went, now that it’s finally done?

LITERARION

Well, I’m just- in a way I’m just glad that we actually got here.

LENA

Yeah.

LITERARION

I remember when we started there were a lot of people who were telling me this wasn’t going to work, your timeline is way too packed, you know, you’re doing this way too fast, you need more time, and I’d already been planning it for like, a whole year. And, yeah, I guess, I’m just glad that ultimately, while there were some blips, everything worked out.

LENA

Yeah, fair enough. Was it, organization-wise and production-wise, was it what you expected or how was it different?

LITERARION

It actually panned out pretty much the way I expected. I think we, I mean, the way it happens in these volunteer projects you start and everyone’s really motivated, and it sort of gradually, some people drop out, some people sort of do less over time, and there’s one core in the middle that keeps it all together. And that’s exactly what happened in Crown of Thorns as well. We had some people who dropped in for individual voices, some people who just provided one single cover, and then we had people like you or like AJM or like Compass who just continually, for the whole year, contributed a lot of different things. And you can see that if you look at the notes for who attended our voice chats that we had regularly, who was there and who showed up and who were the people who actually, you know-

LENA

Yeah

LITERARION

-Bore the brunt of the work. And that’s totally what I expected that to happen, and it happened, and that was anticipated.

LENA

Yeah, I mean, for sure, we had some roles that were necessary through all of that, like the editors, especially Rhi, who has head edited all of the episodes, not just every few chapters one of them, and also Grin, our beta listener.

LITERARION

Yes, absolutely.

LENA

Who had to listen to almost all of them along with Djap who came up after.

LITERARION

Yeah.

LENA

So, yeah. Yeah yeah, no, we’ve definitely had people around more than others, but like you said, that was to be expected.

LITERARION

Yeah. Actually, in a way, it kind of worked more like clockwork than I’d thought it would, because the team--and I may have said that in the first interview already--but the team came up with additional stuff that we could be doing and could be doing throughout. Like this social media schedule, with all of the posts and teasers and everything, I hadn’t even thought about that. Like, yes of course I had anticipated that we would post completed chapters on social media, but that we have like a 24 hr teaser, and a 12 hr teaser, and then the actual chapter, and we had what, four posts for each chapter and all scheduled and all sort of- and that every single or nearly every single one of them going out on all of the platforms on time, that I didn’t foresee at all. And you just came up with it and ran with it and that was great.

LENA

Yeah, fair enough. So, you told us the first time that we talked to you in the interviews that this was the first time you’d been really in fandom but that you had organized groups of volunteers before and you expected it to be similar. Was it actually similar to the experience or was fandom context different?

LITERARION

No, it was no different at all.

LENA

Really?

LITERARION

It’s exactly the same. You have exactly the same processes, you have exactly the same dynamics, like what I just talked about with people dropping out, or you know, people popping up. We had the same kind of drama I’ve had in my other volunteer work. So yeah, it was like one to one. There’s very little comparison.

LENA

Alright, awesome. So, what would you say you’ve learned about fandom then, in the past year of interacting with it?

LITERARION

That is a good question. I think primarily, I’ve- I think the primary thing I take away from this is- a lot of-I’ve learned- I’ve got to know a lot of people. And this isn’t really new insight or anything, but I think this dynamic, and that this dynamic works the same in fandom as it does anywhere else, that is an insight for me. That you have the same process and people, you know, groups of people, function the same. And I’m a sociologist by training, so that’s actually what I study as well. Particularly, I study this kind of thing in context of using the internet for all of it. So I’ve used Crown of Thorns in my academic talks as well, without necessarily saying what it was, but for me that, as a researcher, that’s really interesting to see that these dynamics work the same, and these groups work the same, and you run them the same whether you do it in where I was before or in fandom. So that was interesting to observe.

LENA

Fair enough. And on the more sort of creative side of things, how has the experience of this year made you feel about Good Omens as a fandom and perhaps especially about your character Aziraphale?

LITERARION

I think what I’ve seen within Good Omens is, I mean the fandom has, I have the impression, has gotten slower over the past year which kind of makes sense because the series is now sort of further away, the people get less active in it, some of the writers that I used to know in Good Omens have moved on to other fandoms, but there is still a lot of love, for this fic particularly, which you could see in sort of the regular comments we got, especially from Patricia, who’s just been amazing. And I think a lot of people actually sort of waited for Crown of Thorns to finish and are probably now binging it. Because I mean, we posted the last chapter on Christmas Eve.

LENA

Yes.

LITERARION

So even if they started when we posted, they wouldn’t have finished listening to it by now because it is 37 hrs long.

LENA

Yep.

LITERARION

I had a chat with my husband just over lunch today, and he doesn’t really care about what I do, but he does listen to audiobooks, particularly the Harry Potter ones, so he wanted to know how long this thing that I did actually ended up being and it was like yeah, about twice the length of the longest Harry Potter.

LENA

Yes, about that.

LITERARION

Because I think Goblet of Fire is twenty hours and we have nearly forty.

LENA

Yep.

LITERARION

So yeah, that is impressive. And I think we will see a lot more people sort of listening to it now and I think actually a good deal of sort of the feedback you kind of assume to come in for fanworks will come in after the fact, will come in after we have finished publishing. And we’re also publishing a good deal more bonus content this week up to the end of the year, some of which I hope will be really useful. Like, we’re publishing all of our guides and all of the documentation that we’ve produced, you know, if anyone ever wants to run a project like this again, they can build on what we’ve developed. And I think there’s going to be a good deal more interest in Crown of Thorns when Crown of Thorns is finished than there was while it was running. So I think some of the largest positives are ahead of us.

LENA

Yeah, fair enough, fair enough. And you’ve hit on something cause we really have had a bunch of people who have followed it along the production, like you said, like Pat, also we have had--as someone who kept an eye on social media--there’s been people like Tenner54 who have been liking and reblogging stuff fairly often, so yeah, even though that we have had people follow along, I’m fairly sure you’re right, that we’re going to see a lot more people starting to commenting now and look at it now that it’s been finished.

LITERARION

Yep. I mean, we’ve had one really lovely comment this week just after we posted the last chapter, and I can’t remember who it was from, but it was essentially a person who said, you’ve essentially created something that will now become part of the Good Omens fandom in general, because it’s such a large thing and such a large project. And that is lovely to hear, and that’s really what I hoped this would be when we started it.

LENA

Yeah, yeah yeah yeah, absolutely. Let me, I’m checking the comments section. Oh yeah, Karuna. Yeah, the comment is from Karuna on the last chapter, seventy-six.

LITERARION

This is now a fantastic classic we can enjoy for many years to come. Exactly, that one.

LENA

That one, yes. Yeah, that’s right. But yeah, it’s kind of fantastical to think about it like that, after a year of being so involved with it. I don’t know if you want to go into more detail about how you currently feel, like how you felt before versus how you feel now about your character Aziraphale, has it brought you closer, have you found out things about the character that you didn’t know before through reading him?

LITERARION

Not really. I think the Aziraphale in Crown of Thorns is a different Aziraphale than in most of the other things than I read. Which may well be that most of the other things that I read are based on the show whereas this is based on book Aziraphale. But I voice him different, I play him different and when I do Aziraphale in my other fics, or in my other podfics, he is very different. I wouldn’t necessarily say it has brought me closer to him, it just has shown me more of the variety that there can be in the character, maybe. And I mean, it’s really different because in most of the other podfics that I make, most of them I do it solo, so I play all of the characters. And playing Aziraphale only is a different experience just because you focus much more on that one thing and you try to keep, you know, the tone constant and the speed and the pitch and the voice in which you speak him in a way that is much different than I do in my other work. So yeah, that has been interesting, but I think I like him just the same as when I started.

LENA

Right. Yeah, I feel like I’ve heard a similar sentiment from Compass, who reads Crowley. At the time, because this was in another interview that I did fairly early on, I hadn’t read as much of the story, so I didn’t quite understand why they felt that Crowley was different. I do agree with both of you now, that they have a very different feel as they do in most of the fics I’ve read, but like you said, that’s probably because I don’t read a lot of book Omens in general. I think because- especially because I came to the fandom so late, or quote-unquote so late, with the TV show, most of the content I’ve seen is TV Omens. So yeah, agreed.

LITERARION

But then, you know, I probably, funnily enough, I probably love Crowley more, because Compass has played him so fantastically. Like, I will listen- I mean I love Compass in general and her podfics are just amazing, but I could listen to her Crowley voice to fall asleep every night, it’s just so gorgeous.

LENA

Yeah. Alright, and on a related note, I guess, I have some questions from Compass. They asked, what do you count as the greatest success of the project, and is there anything you’d consider a failure or that didn’t come out as you had hoped?

LITERARION

I think the biggest success if that we finished and we finished on time. I don’t think many people expected that to happen. I expected it to happen, that’s why I wrote the timeline the way I did, but I don’t think when we started people really trusted my judgement on that. And I’m glad that I was right, really, if I can say it that way, that it worked out the way we had planned. And that is a success in itself. There are so many volunteer projects that start out with lots of enthusiasm and then die, never to be seen again. And you can, I mean, I haven’t gone looking, but I’m dead certain that these exist in fandom, to a lot- there must be loads of them. One of the inspirations I pulled from for making Crown of Thorns was this Shakespeare adaptation that was meant to be a videoplay. What’s it called, Much Ado About Good Omens. And I think, I’ve never, they started before we did, and I based some of the processes, especially the casting process for Crown of Thorns was based on some of what they did. And I’ve never heard from them again. I’ve never seen any of the videos and you know, we’re here and we’re done and I can’t say enough just how amazing that is.

LENA

Fair enough.

LITERARION

I don’t think there’s actually anything that didn’t really come out as I hoped. My biggest worry going into this was that along the way we would lose one of the key voice actors because you can replace an editor, and of the other roles, you know, if they drop you, then you just put someone else in there. But a voice, you cannot replace. So going in, that is what I was really worried about. And that hasn’t happened. I mean, we had a couple of minor roles dropping out but all of those could be easily picked up and none of them- we never had two different voices for the same character. Never, throughout the entire pod’rama. And again, I count that as a huge success. I didn’t necessarily expect that to happen. I was very worried that it would happen. But again, I don’t have negative stories to tell. Ultimately it’s turned out exactly as I’d hoped. It was a rockier road then I’d had hoped, but again, I probably shouldn’t have expected it to be smooth sailing all the way through.

LENA

Right, fair enough, fair enough. So you told us the last time that you started it because it was story asking to be podficced and do you feel that you’ve been able then to do it justice in a more artists sense?

LITERARION

Yes. Very much so. I think we’ve done, over all, I keep repeating myself, we’ve just done fantastically. With all the voices coming together, and all the music around it, and everything, I think it’s turned out more beautiful as a work of art than I’d thought it would. I mean particularly with the soundtrack. I’ve recently looked over Moony’s interview, I haven’t gotten around to listening to all of them yet. And sort of- Moony was surprised that we didn’t have music when we started. We didn’t expect this thing to have an original score! Like this was a dream come true for everyone. Had it not been for Moony, we would have just gone for, you know, publicly available music and picked some of that that would have fit and that would have worked and that would have been possibly, certainly, but having an original soundtrack just added that much more- I want to say artistic credibility to the whole project as well.

LENA

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s more- how should we put it. It’s more holistic. Gives it more of a rounded sense of having its own existence as a complete project, it completes it in a bit more rounded way, I don’t know. So, would you do it again?

LITERARION

I would do it differently.

LENA

Yeah, that was my next question.

LITERARION

I have pondered the idea. And I have thought about which stories might fit. I mean you only do this sort of thing for a really long ones. And the next story that I considered doing in this style was _It Was Always You_ which is, in total, even longer than Crown of Thorns. It has something like 320,000 words, where Crown of Thorns has 275k. And I ultimately, for now, decided against it. I’m doing this one on my own and I’ve already started publishing it. So that ship has sailed, is what I’m saying. And the reason that I decided against it was that, it probably would have suited itself quite nicely to a multivoice at this scale because it has like fifty characters, it has a lot of dialogue which is one of the things that makes Crown of Thorns work so well, but I just thought I can’t have another year like the last one. I mean, in a way, it's probably--and this might sound a bit bad--but I don’t think Crown of Thorns would have worked as well had it not been for the pandemic.

LENA

Yes.

LITERARION

It working on this project for the whole year while everything else seemed to fall apart at the edges, it gave a lot of structure to a lot of people, be that the voice actors, be that the editors, be that the team that did all of the social media posting, be that our audience with regular, you know, chapters being posted, and I think that was good. And I would hope that it helped a lot of people in this really devastating year. I very much hope that next year will be a lot better than this. I don’t think anyone can take another year like 2020. But that also means that I don’t- I think having this pandemic and essentially having people homebound for the entire year with not much else to do than record podfic lent itself to making sure that people were more dependable. I think that I definitely need a break. Not from podfic but from all of the interaction around and that is involved in making such a large project with so many people. And I think that people probably need a break as well.

LENA

Yeah, yeah, no, for sure I think that the project is long, you need to stop for a moment and relax. I’m not asking you to immediately start in January and come out with a new one, but if you did do it, and you said you would do it differently, do you have any words of advice or anything you would tell to someone to start their own project like this?

LITERARION

What I’ve thought about how I would do something like this again, I would definitely do a different kind of posting schedule. I think when we wrote the timeline for when the chapters would go up by Crown of Thorns, we went by roughly how much we can edit in any one week. So the word count that we published every week was roughly 6,000 words. And that sometimes was one chapter, sometimes half a chapter, sometimes two or three, or even four chapters. And that led to us posting on different days. And I don’t think I would do that again. And what I actually already do for my own pods now is I just post the same thing on the same day week on week on week, and that will make a lot of the organization a lot easier.

LENA

Yep.

LITERARION

And we didn’t- As I said when we wrote the timeline for Crown of Thorns, I didn’t foresee all of the social media schedule posting madness which, don’t get me wrong, was amazing, but had I been aware that was what we were going to do, I would have made it easier on the team by doing a different schedule. But I didn’t. It just came up after things were already, well not set in stone, but already set.

LENA

Yeah.

LITERARION

So, that is something that I would definitely change. I actually think that, well I always- I went into Crown of Thorns knowing that the editing would be one of the biggest tasks. And editing multivoice podfics, as I’m sure you know as well, is a lot harder than editing your own pods where it’s just you. Because you have to pull together all of the different files and all of the different voices, and you know, chase the individual or pick up line because the character was recorded- was you know, didn’t record a specific line, or recorded it but with a different pitch, or anything like that. But now having edited a lot of multivoice pods both within cot and outside of it, I think I would probably do it on my own. Because I know how long it takes me now to edit, you know, an hours’ multivoice. It’s okay, I can do it and I think it would make the process a lot smoother if you didn’t have all of these different people involved in all of the different stages. I quite like the way that Djap is running multivoice podfics, which are a lot smaller than Crown of Thorns admittedly, but I‘ve played roles in quite a few of theirs, and they work. And it’s a lot more straightforward and it’s a lot less--I don’t want to say cumbersome--but there’s a lot less involvement because people essentially just submit their lines. And I think if I were to do something like this again, I would probably do it like that and not have this whole set up and this whole team structure. It was worth it for cot, and it was fantastic having, you know, individual cover art for every single chapter, but I also think it doesn’t necessarily have to be that complicated. It is a lot of work running a team like that.

LENA

Fair enough.

LITERARION

And I already have a fic earmarked for it. I wouldn’t do it the same way.

LENA

Yeah. It does make sense, if there is a person who enjoys editing that much for a year straight, I think it might work, but as far as I can tell, I think most people would be really burnt out editing every single chapter, and making sure every single chapter has the same quality, and always every single week having to sort of, like you said, maybe talk to the voice actor to rerecord something, so I don’t know, if I was doing this project, if I would be able to- if that would work out for most people. I understand it might work out for you because you understand that you enjoy the editing and you enjoy doing it yourself and that’s- I mean, I’m glad to hear that. I don’t know if I would be able to do that thought. And in the end, our editing team was kind of smaller than I thought originally it would be. Not in a bad way, not because I thought we needed more people, just because I imagined that for a project this big that we would need more people. Like, it worked out, but I think- I don’t know if I, for example, would be able to edit all the chapters in a row. I’ve had months where I had to edit like three or four chapters in a row and by the time I was finished I was like, yeah, I feel accomplished and I’m glad it’s done, and I’m glad I managed to contribute, but I wouldn’t want to do more than this. You know what I mean?

LITERARION

I do know what you mean, but as you say, I just figure that I enjoy editing and that editing multivoice is, well, I just enjoy doing it, but I do see what you mean. The editing team, what was it, seven, eight people over all? I think in total, like some people only did one or two chapters. But I think in total it was eight different ones. Anyway, so yeah, that’s, it was suitable for the project that Crown of Thorns was. I don’t think- I think Crown of Thorns is a once in a lifetime thing, at the scale and at the complexity that it had.

LENA

Fair enough

LITERARION

That doesn’t mean that multivoice podfics at this scale can’t exist again, I just think that we know now that it can be made easier, that it should.

LENA

Oh yeah, sure. I’m sure it can. I’m sure it can, it’s just and I- having been involved with, I mean obviously not everything, but a lot of the pieces and having seen a lot of the organization that has been needed, I don’t know if reducing the people that were involved is necessarily the way I’d do it, simply because of the amount of work that the people left would have to undertake.

LITERARION

The thing is, I think the workload would go down with the number of people, because it doesn’t have to be so complex. I mean, one of the biggest, and this probably may sound a little surprising but one of the biggest time factors for me was maintaining the team and most of the things that we did we did participatory. Which is something I strongly believe in in volunteer teams, it keeps up motivation and you know, it helps people feel a connection to the project, but maintaining those processes and that engagement and the involvement and the decision making, that is a tremendous amount of work. And I would wager to say that it also needs a tremendous amount of skill. And that was one of the hardest things to keep up.

LENA

Right.

LITERARION

And that would proportionally go down if you have less people involved, that is the main reason I would want to downsize.

LENA

I see what you mean, I’m just thinking of what you were saying right now about it being its own skill to organize the amount of people we’ve had in this project because I think, in this case, in this project, in Crown of Thorns, it has all fallen mostly to you in most cases. Do you think, and this is just, you know, a hypothesis, just to think about it. Do you think having someone who enjoys doing that kind of work, because I know there are people who really enjoy doing that part and really don’t enjoy other parts of the process, do you think having someone who took care of that part would sort of manage to keep the complexity of the work we’ve done and make it less stressful over all?

LITERARION

You sounded it like I don’t enjoy doing it.

LENA

Well, you sound like you don’t enjoy doing it, that’s why I say it.

LITERARION

It’s not that I generally don’t enjoy doing it. I wouldn’t have started this whole thing if it weren’t something that I generally enjoy. It turned out to be more painful than I thought it would be, which is one of the main reasons I wouldn’t do it again in this way. But that was a function of the project and the people involved that wasn’t because of the work itself. The thing is you can’t really differentiate between leading a project like this and doing that team management because they are fundamentally the same thing. And that is part of what makes it so demanding is that you have to be involved in so many different ways to really make it work. It’s- I’ve tried running teams with different people running different elements of the project but that doesn’t do away with the requirement for overall leadership and in my experience from many years of running many different teams in many different places, the leadership and the vision for a project and keeping the team together, you can’t pull those two apart.

LENA

Fair enough.

LITERARION

Because they fundamentally belong together. So, maybe you need someone less traumatized than me to do that, that is very well possible, but then, the thing is, this sort of project just, and this may sound a little bit negative, and it maybe, you know, should be taken as a bit of a warning, but it does require you to put in a lot of your personality and a lot of yourself. And you’ve got to be in a mental place to be able to do that. And if you’re not, the thing is, in that position, if you drop out, if you build a team well it can still function, but that doesn’t mean that it will do well without any leadership at all, if you see what I mean.

LENA

Yeah. Yeah, no I know what you mean.

I mean, there were periods where you know work just took over my life and I couldn’t really spend much time on the team and I think that was noticed that I was around less because overall activity kind of seemed to go down as well. So yeah, it just needs a lot of time and I don’t think you can- I think it works but I don’t think it works well if you differentiate those roles. Not in my experience, anyway.

LENA

Right, right right, no, fair enough. I’m just trying to see all of this from an angle where you can take from your experience sort of to pass it on to others. Like you said, for example, with the guides were going to put out. Sort of just see your experience for what it could be in this case, perhaps, a warning sign that yeah, you definitely need to be in a place where you can keep your mental health and your energy up for a year.

LITERARION

Yes, and one of the things is you just have to stay positive regardless of what happens because the team runs of collective positivity. That’s what keeps it going. And if you lose that motivation, and we had one, I want to say fall out, somewhere in the middle of the project after which engagement in additional activities vanished entirely and it hasn’t come back. It hasn’t come back after that, and part of that was because I didn’t have the energy to sort of try and rekindle that but also because this sort of negative influence just draws the team apart and reduces motivation faster than you can blink and once that’s gone, it’s gone. And rebuilding that is even harder than building a team in the first place. So you just have to keep the spirit of the team positive throughout and that is not always easy. So that is one of the reasons you have to be in a good place. I hope I didn’t s- I really really tried- I wasn’t always but I really really tried to stay positive and stay motivating for the entire duration of the project. I won’t say it was always easy, but I try to keep the negativity behind the scenes and out of vision for the team as a whole. And you know, again, that is, I want to say it’s a way of diplomacy, just keeping the negative elements out of public view. And that’s just as important as having good processes and having a solid team at the core.

LENA

Yeah, it’s just part of leadership, just being able to present the energy that you want the entire project to have.

LITERARION

Exactly.

LENA

Yes. So, one more piece of wisdom. Well, so, it’s finished. It is the, I want to say in our timezone it was the morning of Christmas Eve, the last chapter has been posted. Everything that’s left is just extra content, the credits, and your interview. So, how are you feeling?

LITERARION

I think for now I’m mostly relieved that we actually managed and that it’s coming to an end in a positive way, and, you know, all of the contacts and all of the lovely people I’ve met through this I look forward to staying in touch with. I think for now, I’m, in a way, glad for it to be over, because it’s one more thing that I don’t have to think about for the rest of the year, because life is busy and my job is killing me, and you know, it’s lovely that it’s done but it’s also good that it’s done and I can sort of close that chapter. I will probably start missing it sooner of later and that’s when I might start pinging you all again: “Do you want ro run another multivoice podfic with me?” But I kind of, with my current timeline, I will be busy with other projects until about the end of April, so if anything, expect an email around May.

LENA

Fair enough. So just resting for now and focusing on your own projects. Is that it?

LITERARION

Not really. Well, I wouldn’t say resting. I’m currently recording a podfic that will be over forty hours in total. It’s just a different kind of stress, and I like to balance the things I do, and do different things at different times. And I think this is the right thing for me for now. And when I miss working with other people, hopefully they will still be willing to work with me.

LENA

Well, then, good luck with your personal projects, and waiting to see you come back.

LITERARION

Thank you.

LENA

Well, thank you for talking with us Lit. Tell us, where can people find you online?

LITERARION

I am, well, primarily on Archive of Our Own, obviously, as Literarion. I am on Twitter and Tumbler under the same name. You can reach me just simply on gmail. And the thing is, I only have this one name. So it’s Lit for short, but it’s Literarion anywhere else. I’m on Discord, I’m on Twitter, I’m on Tumblr, Ao3, email. I think those are the main channels. I have a couple others, but I don’t really use them so, yeah, that’s where you can get a hold of me or, you know, listen to my stuff.

LENA

Awesome. Well, thank you very much.

LITERARION

Thank you Lena.

LENA

So, this was all we had for today. This has been the last interview of the cast and crew of the Crown of Thorns pod’rama. I’ve been honored to get to know all these amazing people and share this year of experiences with them and everyone else on the team. This has been Lena, LenaLawlipop on Ao3, and both from me and the team I want to say a huge thank you to our listeners and supporters. Every small kudo, comment, and interactions through our social media channels have meant so much to us and have kept us going. Thank you so much for being with us through this project. We’ll see you on the next one.

OUTRO MUSIC

**Works inspired by this one:**

  * [CoT Q&As: The Voiceteam Spin-Off](https://archiveofourown.org/works/29011248) by [CompassRose](https://archiveofourown.org/users/CompassRose/pseuds/CompassRose), [Djapchan](https://archiveofourown.org/users/Djapchan/pseuds/Djapchan), [LenaReads (LenaLawlipop)](https://archiveofourown.org/users/LenaLawlipop/pseuds/LenaReads), [UnholyCrowley](https://archiveofourown.org/users/UnholyCrowley/pseuds/UnholyCrowley)
  * [CoT Podrama Complete Audio Downloads](https://archiveofourown.org/works/29401596) by [CompassRose](https://archiveofourown.org/users/CompassRose/pseuds/CompassRose), [CrownOfThornsPodrama](https://archiveofourown.org/users/CrownOfThornsPodrama/pseuds/CrownOfThornsPodrama)




End file.
